How do I validate emotional experience without validating behaviour

[pineapple78]

I was wondering how you validate an emotional experience in a BPD without validating ba behaviour or judgements about others?

I've read and researched so much and will as my psychologist tomorrow but I have been wondering how you achieve this as it seems impossible in many circumstances.

Any opinions?

Cheers!

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[babyducks]

from my experience when you choose to validate is as critical as what you choose to validate.   for me I tend to wait until emotions are subsiding a little so I will be heard.   I do not sugar coat.   I don't avoid stating my opinion.  I want to be able to speak in my natural 'real' voice.   for me it sounds something like this.   "I can see that this is a difficult issue/topic/subject for you.   It seems like there are a lot of tough emotions at play here.   it has to be hard to sort all this out.   I think anyone would have trouble with this kind of complicated issue.  what I see is XYZ."   if emotions start to rise, and the emotional temperature starts to go up, I listen and try to do active listening, empathic listening but I tend to save validation for when we are actually having a conversational exchange.

[an0ught]

Hi pineapple,

this is a difficult question to answer as long as you think about talking from your perspective. Once you shift the vantage point and talk from your partners perspective letting go of judgment is much easier. It takes a while to get the hang of it. It helps to exercise - e.g. greet new members and validate them. Once you wrote what you think you want to write rework the sentence and remove "I". You will discover reworking what looked initially impossible is in most cases entirely possible and results in a more receiver focused sentence.

Let's be clear - there is nothing wrong with thinking from your perspective and maybe also using your judgment. Judgment in general is a two edged weapon and needs to be yielded carefully lest you hurt yourself - using too much judgment on others strengthens your inner critic and undermines self confidence. Judgment is also part of your executive mind and provides a vital function there. Your perspective is valid and you need to self validate. But you can't use your partner to get validation for your perspective when your partner is distressed. In these cases you need to stand on your own feet. And once you self validated and your feet are well planted you can validate your partner.

[pineapple78]

Perhaps I should clarify further. I have no problem with the concept of validating and am getting better at it. However lets say my BPD wife is emotional and upset on a topic that leads to the abuse of another family member whom has nothing to do with the trigger for that emotional state and has done nothing wrong. However my wife has assigned responsibility for her emotional state on that family member. The result is rages directed at me and abusive messages directed at the family member who is confused and upset now because they don't understand what they are being abused for. It's easy to validate the emotional state my wife is in and I understand the real cause but in validating those emotions my wife also takes it that I'm approving the inappropriate behaviour towards the other family member.

I have tried to validate the emotional state while trying to not show judgement over her treatment of others however while this may lead to reduced anger directed towards me it also reinforces that bad behaviour towards others.

I'm thinking validation has limits until diagnosis when a BPD can start to recognise their emotional state and that their actions may not be an appropriate response.

[an0ught]

Hi pineapple78,

when someone has reached rage level then it gets hard to get to them through mere words or display of behavior. Persistently trying to validate just shifts attention to us and makes us the target. If this other family member can protect him/herself then it is their problem. If not then helping them with boundaries would be the course of action. Abuse should not be tolerated - if you do it gets worse.

[waverider]

You can acknowledge how such strong feelings can cause someone to react in an aggressive way. Avoid talking about specifics or who/where the aggression is directed. ie you are validating that the consequential behavior is related to their emotional state. You are validating the "link" not the actual action or whether justified, just that the link exists

[IsItHerOrIsItMe]

My wife understands validation in general, but when she states things like "I feel like you don't protect our marriage enough" because of whatever triggered her... .I'll try and validate her feelings of being abandoned, but she'll come back and say I didn't validate her "feeling".

It's still an ongoing process where I tell her I'm not going to validate her "feeling" that I'm thinking something... .that's not a feeling but a judgement (fortunately we went to a marriage weekend event years ago where they said it's impossible to express a feeling if you begin the sentence "I feel that you... ."

[waverider]

My wife understands validation in general, but when she states things like "I feel like you don't protect our marriage enough" because of whatever triggered her... .I'll try and validate her feelings of being abandoned, but she'll come back and say I didn't validate her "feeling".

It's still an ongoing process where I tell her I'm not going to validate her "feeling" that I'm thinking something... .that's not a feeling but a judgement (fortunately we went to a marriage weekend event years ago where they said it's impossible to express a feeling if you begin the sentence "I feel that you... ."

Be wary of pwBPD twisting psychology to try to get you to agree with them. Validate means to acknowledge they feel something due to their view of the world, not agree that their perceptions are correct.

"I can see you feel that way as a result off your perceptions " vs "You are correct in feeling that way".

As far as validating perceptions stick to "everyone has different perspectives of the same events". This way you are validating your own right to a perspective at the same time as validating they have there own

[ArleighBurke]

You validate her feeling but not her action.

I think it's OK to say her actions were wrong. (Wrapped up nicely).

"I can see you are very frustrated with... .I understand the pain and anger you must feel about... .Hitting is NOT an acceptable way to express that."

It's clear, and a boundary. Some things NEED to be acknowledged. Imagine telling off a 10yr old... .

[pineapple78]

You validate her feeling but not her action.

I think it's OK to say her actions were wrong. (Wrapped up nicely).

"I can see you are very frustrated with... .I understand the pain and anger you must feel about... .Hitting is NOT an acceptable way to express that."

It's clear, and a boundary. Some things NEED to be acknowledged. Imagine telling off a 10yr old... .

Yes I agree but the validation in this case does not normally work because while you may be validating the feelings you invalidate them by saying their actions were wrong. This approach may work better for someone diagnosed. In my case I'm still the enemy!

I spoke to my psychologist whom said that if validation of the emotion is going to be approval for their behaviour then it's possible it's better not to validate in this situation. If the behaviour crosses a line then everyone has boundaries and while it may be difficult for the BPD to accept this its best not to compromise ones own values in order to soothe the BPD. This only creates further problems down the line. Validation is not always the solution and works best when someone is diagnosed and understands that emotions don't justify behaviour, especially for them. That sucks if you have a relationship with an undiagnosed but I'm working on that being resolved soon I hope!

Feels like a race against the clock for diagnosis before the rift gets too wide to be bridged. I guess that's the race many of us have to go through and some loose the battle and right now it's feeling like 50/50 to me.