Can a BPD parent be made to admit to abuse/an error?

[Jenk]

Has anyone successfully gotten your BPD parent to admit to even one moment of abuse? That is, have you gotten him/her to admit that one particular instance of abusive behavior toward you was wrong on his/her part? Can they be made to own up to *anything,* to see the error of even one moment in time?

I'm experiencing a majorly hypocritical situation with my uBPDm. More than a decade ago, she raged at me for emailing her about a non-serious car accident that I'd had. (To her mind, a person is obliged to make a phone call to impart such news.) So I got raged/sworn at for said "transgression."

Recently, my mother emailed to tell me of a non-serious car accident involving my dad. I've been trying to make her understand how the two incidents coincide--and to admit that she was wrong for raging at me because I'd sent an email about my accident--but she keeps sidestepping the issue in her replies to me. It is beyond frustrating.

Jenk

[Turkish]

It's been rare to sucessfully get my mom to do anything. The only time that she admitted that she "may have" crossed the line into abse was when she was raging at me so badly that I had a seizure. And she told me this only 25 years later, almost as an offhand comment.

It sounds like you got nowhere with your mom, and likely won't. Her memory of the incident s based upon her view of events, filtered by disordered thoughts, and additionally influened by your relationship to her as a daughter.

[Jenk]

It sounds like you got nowhere with your mom, and likely won't. Her memory of the incident s based upon her view of events, filtered by disordered thoughts, and additionally influened by your relationship to her as a daughter.

Of course, you are correct: it's unlikely that I'll receive a meaningful response from my uBPDm. More than anything, I want her to make an intelligent connection, for once--and learn from it. The wishful thinking of a 39-year-old, I know.

Well, I at least have proof that she recalls that particular attack on me: her lack of denial of it. If she truly didn't recall it, she would've indicated as much. But her initial silence and, then, deflection of the subject tells me that she REMEMBERS.

And, yet, I still am not satisfied. *sigh*

[enlighten me]

My sons live with me because they've had enough of their mums behaviour. They refuse to speak to her or have anything to do with her. She has been pushing for contact and wants to know what she can do to get it, The boys have said they want her to apologise for her behaviour. She refuses as she says she has done nothing to apologise for. All the examples that the boys have given have been denied that they ever happened or twisted so it was someone else's fault. She would rather drag her sons through the court system than admit to any wrong doing.

[purekalm]

My dad is the one uBPD and no, he will never admit guilt to anything because he either doesn't remember or has reordered the events to make him the good guy and the other party the bad guy.

Examples are more extreme in my case: Trying to strangle my younger sister/ Raging and throwing fits when you refuse him money (because he always helps   )/ Stealing my car by lying to his brother who he originally got it from and sold to me/ Throwing animals out the door or at walls/ Trying to commit suicide by drowning himself in the river in front of me and my younger brother/ Cheating on my mom when I saw the you know what he was with naked where he was living... .SO much more.

I know how you feel. You want closure you will probably never get because of the way they are.    It has taken me a while and I still have to work at it but I just accepted it's never gonna be normal with him, he's never gonna see the truth. But, I know the truth and that just has to be good enough.

[Jenk]

My dad is the one uBPD and no, he will never admit guilt to anything because he either doesn't remember or has reordered the events to make him the good guy and the other party the bad guy.

I am sorry for every ordeal your dad put you, your siblings and your mother through.  

I know how you feel. You want closure you will probably never get because of the way they are.    It has taken me a while and I still have to work at it but I just accepted it's never gonna be normal with him, he's never gonna see the truth. But, I know the truth and that just has to be good enough.

I learned about BPD nearly 8 years ago--purely by accident while perusing a psychology book. And despite all my reading on the subject and the passage of time, I still struggle to accept the idea that I won't get a meaningful apology for *any* of the abuse.

But it's not even an apology that I necessarily want. More than anything, I'd feel better if my mother just could make the connection between the two incidents in question and say, "Yeah, it was no big deal that you emailed me about your car accident all those years ago." I don't need to hear the words "I'm sorry." I just would feel better if her brain could reach a logical conclusion for once.

[Suzn]

Has anyone successfully gotten your BPD parent to admit to even one moment of abuse? That is, have you gotten him/her to admit that one particular instance of abusive behavior toward you was wrong on his/her part? Can they be made to own up to *anything,* to see the error of even one moment in time?

Yes.

I have also gotten an apology. Albeit, my mother exhibits waif/hermit traits, her "shame" has deep roots. This took a lot of work on my part and getting past a deep anger in myself that I didn't even know existed. I'm still working on that though there's much less in intensity. For a time I lost all compassion for her and have since regained it. "Can they be made to see the errors"... I have to say no on that part. I don't want to force or manipulate, I do want to find ways to be honest and open without being the cause of major melt downs. For me, I want a relationship with my mother, I keep in mind she's older now and her short term memory isn't the best.

There are moments when she is remorseful of the past and she let's me know. She still has moments where you can see her traits take the driver seat. I had to accept that she has limitations, and so do I. We are both broken people to some degree. She wasn't my main abuser though she never stopped the abuse and she was aware of it. Which in my mind she was equally to blame. She was in fact an emotionally unavailable and neglectful mother however. These thoughts only came to me a few years ago, prior to that I always thought mom did the best she could. She was a single mother of two. Well, she did do the best she could. She has lived her entire life paralyzed by fear which she in turn passed down to me and my brother to some degree.

Once I recognized this I was livid. It took quite a while to reel that anger back in. It was only after I did so that I was able to find ways to tap into the little empathy she has. I did this by asking her questions about her past abuse and relating to her about mine. I put it all on the table for discussion, this might not work for everyone of course. I also called her on every invalidating comment she's made going forward. Such as "oh my GOD!" as if I shouldn't be bringing up things from the past and holding on to them. Trust me, I'd rather not hold on... .it is however necessary for me now that I see my past more clearly to experience my emotions and get through to the other side of the grieving process.

I am seeing progress, in both of us. I'm keeping myself in check with my reactions and I'm using the tools here. It was incredibly hard to keep a calm, clear head to use the tools for a while but as I worked on my own part, my anger, it became easier. I should say it's becoming easier. We both have our bad days. On my bad days I steer clear of her because I'd rather not say things I'll regret and put us back to square one. Then again, she also needs to be willing to accept I have bad days too. It's a two way street if you want results and those results will not happen over night AND I have had to radically accept that I can't change her nor can I save her from her past, her childhood. SHE has to own that and grieve it. She will always be broken to some degree just like myself, the past happened, we can't change that.

Forgiveness is coming to terms with not expecting a better past.

Recently, my mother emailed to tell me of a non-serious car accident involving my dad. I've been trying to make her understand how the two incidents coincide--and to admit that she was wrong for raging at me because I'd sent an email about my accident--but she keeps sidestepping the issue in her replies to me. It is beyond frustrating.

Would it help to know there is a possibility that she was likely scared once she found out you had been in an accident and the thought of something happening to you in the future and not knowing about it was what she "reacted" to back then? I'm certainly not saying I know for certain what your mother was feeling, it's only a possibility. How would knowing this affect your responses to her today? She will likely side step until you find the "emotional" part of her reaction for her and even then expecting accountability could be a stretch. Would taking out the expectation of an apology and simply trying to make an emotional connection, even if it's just in your own thoughts, be helpful to your frustration? It was only after trying to find other explanations for my own mother's actions that I could calm my own anger.

I totally get needing an apology and the frustration that comes with it and with other situations with a mother with BPD traits. It hurts when we don't get the validation we hope for.  

[slayer]

In my experience, no.

I've only found comfort in acknowledging to myself that I have been abused and that I do not need to be externally validated. It's healthier for me because in my case I'll never be validated by my BPD parent.

Every time in the past when I've attempted to cross that bridge they are only interested in turning the tables back on me. Unfortunately it's one of their strongest traits, finding a way to be the one that's the true victim no matter what has actually occurred. When they start to turn the focus on how they are the true victim it just restarts the cycle of abuse for me.

So no, in my experience my BPD parent isn't going to admit to abuse. I had to work towards reaching a place where I no longer needed them to admit to abuse. The abuse is real whether they acknowledge it or not. It's still hard and it still hurts. We all yearn for and need validation, not just a person with BPD.

[Jenk]

I have also gotten an apology. Albeit, my mother exhibits waif/hermit traits, her "shame" has deep roots. This took a lot of work on my part and getting past a deep anger in myself that I didn't even know existed. I'm still working on that though there's much less in intensity. For a time I lost all compassion for her and have since regained it. "Can they be made to see the errors"... I have to say no on that part. I don't want to force or manipulate, I do want to find ways to be honest and open without being the cause of major melt downs. For me, I want a relationship with my mother, I keep in mind she's older now and her short term memory isn't the best.

I'm guessing things get worse as someone with BPD ages, in that s/he then has a more a valid excuse for forgetting some details--combined with the BPD-related ability to erase (or warp) a lot of facts. *sigh*

I give you much credit, though, for working through your anger and using your growth to foster a better--or at least workable--relationship with your mother.

We are both broken people to some degree.

That's something about which I still feel angry: the fact that I am broken, in a sense, due to my uBPDm and en-dad's behavior--i.e., the "teachable moments" that they messed up royall

I also called her on every invalidating comment she's made going forward. Such as "oh my GOD!" as if I shouldn't be bringing up things from the past and holding on to them. Trust me, I'd rather not hold on... .it is however necessary for me now that I see my past more clearly to experience my emotions and get through to the other side of the grieving process.

When I've called her out on past events, my mother's go-to expression has been, "I don't understand what it is that you want from me." (Again, she doesn't flat out deny past abuse. But she won't own up to it being abuse, won't genuinely apologize for it and generally warps the details of what really happened.)

I am seeing progress, in both of us. I'm keeping myself in check with my reactions and I'm using the tools here. It was incredibly hard to keep a calm, clear head to use the tools for a while but as I worked on my own part, my anger, it became easier. I should say it's becoming easier.

That is truly impressive. Major kudos to you for truly working through things, as you've been doing. (I still fall back on [internalized] anger at times and, so, have my setbacks.)

We both have our bad days. On my bad days I steer clear of her because I'd rather not say things I'll regret and put us back to square one. Then again, she also needs to be willing to accept I have bad days too.

That's hard, though, because it seems that BPD parents don't accept our bad days very well, since something as simple as not wanting to talk can be viewed as rejection.

Forgiveness is coming to terms with not expecting a better past.

I like that quote.

Recently, my mother emailed to tell me of a non-serious car accident involving my dad. I've been trying to make her understand how the two incidents coincide--and to admit that she was wrong for raging at me because I'd sent an email about my accident--but she keeps sidestepping the issue in her replies to me. It is beyond frustrating.

Would it help to know there is a possibility that she was likely scared once she found out you had been in an accident and the thought of something happening to you in the future and not knowing about it was what she "reacted" to back then? I'm certainly not saying I know for certain what your mother was feeling, it's only a possibility.

Her anxiety jumpstarted her BPD behavior into high gear over that issue. More than anything, I think she was angry that she didn't

"receive" my email until a few days later, since, back then, she checked it less frequently. (NOTE: I'd emailed her the evening of the accident. But, of course, it was MY fault that she didn't check her email sooner; she misdirected her anger at me, claiming that I should've called her. And if I'd left her a voicemail message--and she didn't manage to discover it for several days--she'd have blamed me for that, too.)

According to my mother, she takes medication for anxiety nowadays. (I do not know which one; I've not asked.) She likes to think that anxiety is her main issue in life. *forehead slap*

I totally get needing an apology and the frustration that comes with it and with other situations with a mother with BPD traits. It hurts when we don't get the validation we hope for.

Indeed, it does.

[Jenk]

In my experience, no.

I've only found comfort in acknowledging to myself that I have been abused and that I do not need to be externally validated. It's healthier for me because in my case I'll never be validated by my BPD parent.

Deep down, I know that's the case for me, too. My mother will never truly process the harm that she's done and genuinely apologize for it.

Every time... .when I've attempted to cross that bridge they are only interested in turning the tables back on me. Unfortunately it's one of their strongest traits, finding a way to be the one that's the true victim no matter what has actually occurred.

Good point. :/

I've found that the more explanation I give my mother--especially in writing--the more warped of a response I get (or the more ideas she has to latch onto and deflect and/or warp).

This time, I was direct and asked outright if she now understands that it was okay for me to have emailed her about my non-serious car accident all those years ago. (I suspect she will ignore it, because I didn't write give her anything else to latch onto; so rather than try to squirrel her way out of things, she'll ignore my email.)

So no, in my experience my BPD parent isn't going to admit to abuse. I had to work towards reaching a place where I no longer needed them to admit to abuse. The abuse is real whether they acknowledge it or not. It's still hard and it still hurts. We all yearn for and need validation, not just a person with BPD.

Most days, I don't feel the need for such validation. But when my mother emailed me about my dad's car accident, her attack on me 12 years ago rose to the surface of my memory, unbidden. The hypocrisy just screamed at me and I'm struggling to let this one go. But I know I must... .

[Suzn]

I give you much credit, though, for working through your anger and using your growth to foster a better--or at least workable--relationship with your mother.

Thank you. It's not been easy. The first thing I did once I settled down a little, and I do mean a little, was to ask myself what I wanted. Do I want a relationship or not? It was a back and forth for a while. Once I decided that I did I knew I had plenty to learn. Plenty to practice. I haven't always handled things "right" but I'm going to keep trying. I'm doing this as much for me as for her. I guess I don't want any regrets.

We are both broken people to some degree.

That's something about which I still feel angry: the fact that I am broken, in a sense, due to my uBPDm and en-dad's behavior--i.e., the "teachable moments" that they messed up royall

I'll quote my T on this. "Everyone is broken to some degree. Everyone. If someone tells you otherwise then they don't know what they're talking about or they are lying."  But I feel you on your feelings of anger on this too. It doesn't matter to me what the label is, what matters, to me, is how she treats me and how I treat her.

When I've called her out on past events, my mother's go-to expression has been, "I don't understand what it is that you want from me."

Do you have an answer to what you want from her? My answer to these kinds of statements go something like this... Mom when you say (or do) abc, it makes me feel xyz. DEARMAN technique  If you don't have the answer let her know you want some time to think about it.

We both have our bad days. On my bad days I steer clear of her because I'd rather not say things I'll regret and put us back to square one. Then again, she also needs to be willing to accept I have bad days too.

That's hard, though, because it seems that BPD parents don't accept our bad days very well, since something as simple as not wanting to talk can be viewed as rejection.

She'll get over it. Sorry to be blunt but that's how I see it. I am entitled to my space just like anyone else. I don't have to be rude about it but she's my mom, I know her, she wants to talk so I really don't have to worry that she'll go NC. If she did chose to I'd have to respect it.

Her anxiety jumpstarted her BPD behavior into high gear over that issue. More than anything, I think she was angry that she didn't "receive" my email until a few days later, since, back then, she checked it less frequently. (NOTE: I'd emailed her the evening of the accident. But, of course, it was MY fault that she didn't check her email sooner; she misdirected her anger at me, claiming that I should've called her. And if I'd left her a voicemail message--and she didn't manage to discover it for several days--she'd have blamed me for that, too.)

How did you respond?

When my mom get's on one of her catastrophic thinking binges I tell her I know you do this because you care but it's not necessary. All is well, take a deep breath. (She can get me going sometimes too where I need a deep breath.) I try not to get caught up in "the story" only that she's over reacting. This took a bunch of practice to recognize what was happening and not react. I'm still practicing.    

[Charlie3236]

No I don't think so. I've gotten a half-hearted "I did this (horrible thing) because you did (perceived slight). All in all she can never admit wrong-doing, it's always everyone else. And I believe that if she could apologize she would be an entirely different kind of person and not mentally ill. I had to give up on her ever understanding the way she's torn apart our relationship.

Find your own validation and sunshine elsewhere. Spend your energy on those who deserve your light!

[Deb]

My oldest neice was asked by her dBPD mom (my sister) if she had "really been that bad" of a mother. My neice replied (in an email) with 3 specific incidents, all horrible IMO, where my sister had abused her.  My sister replied, waiflike, adressing the mildest incident, that she "should have apologized." That was as close as she got to accepting responsibility. Two days later, my neice recieved a volley of nastygrams about how it was her own fault if she (my dBPDsis) was a bad mother because neice was a horrible child. :'( My neice had to block her.