Dealing with fear; what if I was wrong? ~

[reshi]

Broke up on Saturday after she read my journal again and found where I'd been questioning whether I still loved her or not.

Due to complicated circumstances, we had to be together for some time yesterday and she told me that my idea of love was something that was unrealistic and unobtainable; she told me that I should know how badly I was hurting her, and that I was breaking her heart and would just continue to break the hearts of other girls I was with because of my unrealistically high standards.  I (mostly) dismissed these accusations and criticisms out of hand, but they did make me feel less confident about the decision I'd made.

Then, this morning, my mom calls me and tells me the same thing.  She told me that there is a distance that has grown between the two of us since I moved out of state 2.5 years ago and that she constantly worries about crossing boundaries with me.  She talked about the way our relationship has become too "clinical" (I'm getting my masters in psych and am a counseling intern at the moment), and how she feels that some relationships should have no boundaries in them.  She said that while she supports me in the decision I've made to end things with my girlfriend, she worries that I've done so unfairly and will continue to have unsatisfying romantic relationships if I continue this way.

A big problem in my life stems from the degree of enmeshment between me and my mother, and the way that I was raised to think that this was normal.  I was raised to think that codependency was just a part of love.  This has only created problems for me.  But now I've got two people in my life speaking to a very real fear that I have for myself.  I know that I contributed to the problems in my relationship with my exgirlfriend, and I have conceded this to her many times; she tends to focus solely on the problems I've created and blame me for nearly ALL of the issues in our relationship.  I'm scared that I'm not seeing things clearly.  I just can't make sense of it all anymore, and I'm getting scared that I never will.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Lifewriter16]

Hi reshi,

Great to have you here at BPD Family.

It sounds like you are having serious self-doubts. I think that's very common when people find BPD Family. In actuality, the things our exes say to us are pure gift, even though it doesn't feel like it at the time and even if it is projection.

Would you like to tell us more about what your mother and girlfriend meant when they talked about your unrealistic standards in relationships?

Lifewriter x

[Gonzalo]

You can't rely on the opinions of disordered people about you. Have you thought about talking to a therapist, or even just asking your friends some about how their relationships work? My ex- used to say that I had completely unrealistic standards for a relationship - but she was never willing to discuss what she thought they were, or in what way they were unrealistic. The thing is, the main things that I had a problem with were her not pulling her weight financially (unemployed half the time we were together) and her shouting and generally flying off the handle in arguments. These aren't little nitpicky 'she must be perfect', but pretty big things like 'should not be a financial drain' and 'doesn't shout at me for hours leading into days of sleeping in separate rooms'.

My therapist, who we both saw for a few months before the end and who I'm seeing now, heavily reassured me that I was not unreasonable in these expectations. The therapist had even brought up the financial issues when we were both together as something that needed work, even though I wanted to focus on arguments. When I talk to friends about the kind and length of arguments we had, they're just plain shocked, and don't think it's remotely normal. In my relationships over the past year I have not had a single thing that comes remotely close to the arguments we'd have every week or two, even though there have been two 'possible relationship over' discussions.

My standards for a relationship were not unrealistic for a relationship with someone who doesn't have an unchecked personality disorder, and I suspect yours aren't either. They were grossly unrealistic for a relationship with someone who has severe BPD, like her, but that's not a problem with the standards.

[reshi]

Would you like to tell us more about what your mother and girlfriend meant when they talked about your unrealistic standards in relationships?

Good question.

It was so confusing with my exgirlfriend... . One of the problems I had in our relationship was exhaustion from the constant arguments.  We fought probably once every 3-4 days, and they quite simply wore me out.  She told me that its unrealistic to expect a relationship where you never fight, and I agree. But I do think that the frequency and intensity of our arguments (and especially her emotional reactions) were not something I wanted in a relationship.  We pretty much cycled between arguing, and periods of being intensely anxious about being abandoned.

My mom, then, also struggles with the way that I have moved away from home, and the distance that’s followed.  I think that my relationship with my girlfriend has been a place for my mom to project a lot of this anxiety. For example, my family came to visit a few weeks ago, and I wanted to spend some time with just them (without my girlfriend) because I haven’t seen my family in months and I wanted some time with just us. My mom felt that this was inconsiderate to my girlfriend, and seems to feel that I should’ve invited my girlfriend along so that she wouldn’t be sad.

Essentially, my mom feels that my newly developed boundaries are going to prevent the development of any satisfying relationships, because to her, romantic relationships are more enmeshed.

Does that help at all? Or make sense?

[Lifewriter16]

Hi Reshi,

It makes sense and it doesn't sound like your problem at all.

It sounds like your mum is rescuing herself vicariously by picking you up on your behaviour with your girlfriend. I think your mum doesn't like how you are now because she is no longer getting what she used to get from you. I reckon your mum is projecting her sadness onto your girlfriend and instead of talking to you directly about the impact your decisions are having on herself, she speaks indirectly hoping you'll take the hint and revert to your old care-taking ways. She's abdicating responsibility for her own feelings if you ask me, hoping she'll benefit without ever having admitted anything (or is this my mother I'm talking about!). And your girlfriend has different expectations of relationships because she probably always argues every 3 - 4 days (and I bet her family did too) and so she doesn't realise that isn't normal.

You will have a good future and satisfying relationships. If I were you, I'd ditch the self-doubt and find a nice, sane woman to get intimate with. Walk away from the fear, obligation and guilt these two people are trying to instill in you.

Lifewriter x

[reshi]

You can't rely on the opinions of disordered people about you. Have you thought about talking to a therapist, or even just asking your friends some about how their relationships work? My ex- used to say that I had completely unrealistic standards for a relationship - but she was never willing to discuss what she thought they were, or in what way they were unrealistic. The thing is, the main things that I had a problem with were her not pulling her weight financially (unemployed half the time we were together) and her shouting and generally flying off the handle in arguments. These aren't little nitpicky 'she must be perfect', but pretty big things like 'should not be a financial drain' and 'doesn't shout at me for hours leading into days of sleeping in separate rooms'.

My therapist, who we both saw for a few months before the end and who I'm seeing now, heavily reassured me that I was not unreasonable in these expectations. The therapist had even brought up the financial issues when we were both together as something that needed work, even though I wanted to focus on arguments. When I talk to friends about the kind and length of arguments we had, they're just plain shocked, and don't think it's remotely normal. In my relationships over the past year I have not had a single thing that comes remotely close to the arguments we'd have every week or two, even though there have been two 'possible relationship over' discussions.

My standards for a relationship were not unrealistic for a relationship with someone who doesn't have an unchecked personality disorder, and I suspect yours aren't either. They were grossly unrealistic for a relationship with someone who has severe BPD, like her, but that's not a problem with the standards.

Thanks for the response.  I have been seeing a therapist for some time now, and he has validated the needs I have expressed, and has gone so far as to stay that she has been emotionally abusive to me, but I struggle to recognize this when it happens.  She's so high functioning, and very very intelligent; she did debate in college and structures her arguments with these truisms ("Everybody deserves a second chance," or "Everyone makes mistakes" that makes it difficult to dispute what she's saying.  So I typically end up just disengaging.

My friends also say that I'm being anything but unreasonable.  So that's validating too.  I just have a hard time believing it myself.  I think I've gotten so swept up in the craziness that I simply can't make sense of much anymore.  Hopefully this gets better with time.

[reshi]

Hi Reshi,

It makes sense and it doesn't sound like your problem at all.

It sounds like your mum is rescuing herself vicariously by picking you up on your behaviour with your girlfriend. I think your mum doesn't like how you are now because she is no longer getting what she used to get from you. I reckon your mum is projecting her sadness onto your girlfriend and instead of talking to you directly about the impact your decisions are having on herself, she speaks indirectly hoping you'll take the hint and revert to your old care-taking ways. She's abdicating responsibility for her own feelings if you ask me, hoping she'll benefit without ever having admitted anything (or is this my mother I'm talking about!). And your girlfriend has different expectations of relationships because she probably always argues every 3 - 4 days (and I bet her family did too) and so she doesn't realise that isn't normal.

You will have a good future and satisfying relationships. If I were you, I'd ditch the self-doubt and find a nice, sane woman to get intimate with. Walk away from the fear, obligation and guilt these two people are trying to instill in you.

Lifewriter x

I cannot tell you how relieved I felt to read this.  I believe it to be true and I can tell it to myself, but I think I just needed to hear it from someone else, too.  So thank you for the support.  I am going to continue to work on recovering from this and hope the rest falls into place.  Thank you.

[unicorn2014]

Broke up on Saturday after she read my journal again and found where I'd been questioning whether I still loved her or not.

Due to complicated circumstances, we had to be together for some time yesterday and she told me that my idea of love was something that was unrealistic and unobtainable; she told me that I should know how badly I was hurting her, and that I was breaking her heart and would just continue to break the hearts of other girls I was with because of my unrealistically high standards.  I (mostly) dismissed these accusations and criticisms out of hand, but they did make me feel less confident about the decision I'd made.

Then, this morning, my mom calls me and tells me the same thing.  She told me that there is a distance that has grown between the two of us since I moved out of state 2.5 years ago and that she constantly worries about crossing boundaries with me.  She talked about the way our relationship has become too "clinical" (I'm getting my masters in psych and am a counseling intern at the moment), and how she feels that some relationships should have no boundaries in them. 

Hi Reshi, your mother reminds me of my partner. Does your mother have borderline traits at all? Boundaries can feel very threatening to a person with BPD. I had the same conversation with my partner a couple of years ago. That was before I had wised up to what BPD was and how it affected someone so a red flag didn't go up at the time. My partner still doesn't really get what boundaries are, he thinks they are something you to do someone if they're not acting right.

I wish you luck on your healing journey.

[formflier]

  and how she feels that some relationships should have no boundaries in them. 

 

You are on the right track listening to your T. 

Set high expectations... .of yourself and others.  Make sure you clean up your side of the street. 

Embrace good... .healthy boundaries.  I'm very curious to know what boundaries you mom doesn't like.

FF

[waverider]

Boundaries are difficult things to set. You have to be careful not to use them to simply avoid things that you could probably handle better, or to attempt to censor all opposing views.

Most of all they should not used to control. So choose your boundaries sparingly and wisely.

whenever you set boundaries, you are making changes which upset the status quo. Enmeshed people around you struggle with this and they will do their utmost to reassert the status quo.

Healthy relationships are entwined, not enmeshed. To use an analogy:

Entwined=Two trees growing side by side providing shelter for each other and improving the habitat, but each is a fully functioning and self sufficient entity

Enmeshed= One plant grafted onto the other with a common root structure, failure or disease in one will affect the other equally. Typically one cannot survive without the other and very likely saps the energy out of the host until it takes over.

[formflier]

Most of all they should not used to control. So choose your boundaries sparingly and wisely.

We can help you sort through this.  People that haven't been raised with boundaries can be scared of them.  I know I was.

So... post the issue and your suggested boundary... .and we can help sort out if you are being controlling... .or wise.

Quick example:

"I'm going to not talk to my partner until he apologizes and says he loves me... ."      Controlling... .bad.

"I'm not going to talk to my partner while he is raging... .I don't participate in rage... "  Good... .healthy... wise...

FF