How about your ex's Ex? did she/he go through the same pattern?

[Freeatlast_1]

I am wondering if my exes EX had the same issue that I'm having right now. But I will never find out because I am not in contact with her. Has any of you contacted or happen to know your Ex's ex-girlfriend? Did she go through the same idealization devaluation and discard stage? How was that relationship different from yours? I really would love to know this because it would give me an idea how her next relationship would be. I truly want her to be happy, however, it does hurt to know that she might meet "the one" and be the amazing person that she is when she's normal. Maybe with someone else, she would not dysregulate as much as she dysregulated with me.

[C.Stein]

Personally, I think my ex is doomed to a lifetime of turbulent relationship that will end up a broken mess.

Doesn't matter how long they last, eventually they will all fail.

It will start out great, like they all do, but it will end up a mess of her own making and she will be right back where she started.  

I really want her to find peace and happiness, I just don't think it will ever happen because she is her own worst enemy.

[parisian]

Has any of you contacted or happen to know your Ex's ex-girlfriend? Did she go through the same idealization devaluation and discard stage? How was that relationship different from yours?

Freeatlast, before I had a r/s with my first exBPD, I knew her and her (then) long-term girlfriend. I had been to their housewarming years earlier and had the occasional socialising with them. I remember on a few occasions my ex had been very argumentative with her (then) g/f, and seemed a little 'odd' sometimes.

When I broke up with my exBPD, I ran into her ex (who had been charmed back by the BPD to feed her pet). I asked if she wanted to catch up for a coffee and she sort of said yes maybe at some point in the future, but then when I contacted her to do that, she said she 'didn't want to drag up things from the past and she couldn't give me any answers'. She asked if the ex had 'done a number on me' and I said no, but that she had significant issues that she needed to deal with, and that whatever behaviour she had experienced in the relationship was probably very similar to what I had also experienced.

When my ex moved onto my replacement, I ocassionally checked her social media and noticed very similar patterns of behaviour,  including similar activities that she was doing with the replacement that she had done with me, at the same time of the year. I also noticed other 'patterns' including her abstaining from social media once they broke up, and her going to visit her family also after the breakup. This was also repeated once the replacement was recycled and broke off again, which was also a pattern we did.

I am in a small community and am very very likely to run into my exBPD's replacement. I am not going to try and make contact with her but if she were to approach me to talk, I wouldn't say no. For a brief moment I considered contacting her and giving her some insight into why she is probably feeling like she is right now, but that is her lesson to learn I guess, as it was for all of us.

The relationship they have with our replacements very much depend on what the replacement is like - how good their communication skills and boundaries are. If they are more of a doormat than we where, the relationship they have with our replacements may last much longer. It may not too. And the length of time it lasts of course is no indicator of the quality of the relationship. Whilst many of us on here at one point have the fear of 'what if they get better for the next person', recovery for pwBPD is very difficult and takes years of DBT and other therapy, and there is a very high likelihood that patterns will again repeat themselves the same way they did for us.

What if you did find out the ex experienced what you did? Would that change anything for you?

[Michelle27]

I was with my ex for 15 years (married for 7).  When we met, I was only 6 months separated from my first husband who was abusive, but in a control/physically abusive way, not so much mentally.  When we met, he first told me he was separated for "awhile" and it didn't occur to me to ask for specifics.  I wish I had... .turns out he was separated from his first wife for 3 weeks.

He painted his first wife as abusive and controlling which of course gave us something to bond over.  He presented himself as an abused man and I believed it. 

When I finally called off the marriage and decided I couldn't do it anymore after a 3 month therapeutic separation I was tempted to talk to his ex wife and hear her side, but it took a few months before I felt healed enough to be able to handle the conversation.  I think I knew what I was going to hear and I wasn't ready at first.  Sure enough, the same patterns happened in their marriage, although she was most definitely less tolerant than I was, getting out after 3.5 years.  We had 2 telephone conversations, the first was an hour and the 2nd was 2 hours.  In some ways, it was very painful... .like ripping off old wounds, but it was also therapeutic. 

Within weeks of ending the marriage, he was onto his next supply, and definitely recreating the patterns that he did with me early on.  The new supply thinks he is the best thing since sliced bread, and within a month or so of them meeting, she declared him the love of her life and the best man she's ever met.  Seeing him repeat the same patterns is somewhat good for me... .shows me it wasn't just ME that was the problem and is helping me to work on the things about me that made me tolerate what I did.  I can't let it happen to me again.

[Suspicious1]

How I wish I could talk to one of his exes. I suppose I could reach out to his ex wife, but he always told me she was violent so I don't really want to approach her. I suspect that he simply painted her black. He told me she was abusive and controlling and it got to the point where he had to leave, but I wonder now if she threw him out. It always seemed odd that she would never let him set foot back inside the house she shared with their children, even to get his possessions. He told me their relationship was very turbulent and that they only stayed together because of the children. Outside of that, I had been his longest relationship at 18 months, but he'd had a LOT of very short term liaisons apart from that. At 43 years old I found him to be unusual in that.

I vaguely know one of his ex girlfriends, but she's very much a no-nonsense type who wouldn't have any patience for discussing emotions or past relationships. She walked away from him because he was too clingy and wanted more from the relationship than she wanted to give. He talked about it as being a heartbreaking experience for him as he was so in love with her, which made it sound like a long-running relationship, but I later found out they'd only been involved for a couple of months.

There was only her, and one other of his girlfriends (who he claimed to never have been in love with) who he never split black. Every single one of his other gfs were painted as evil, paranoid, mad, cruel... .it was hard to find out what he liked about any of them. My biggest clue was the way he was with his family - he had split almost every single one of them black at some point, and they were all nervous of upsetting him because he could cut them off for years at a time.

I see his gf now sometimes on fakebook, and she obsessively clicks "like" on every single post he makes, and comments on his posts with heart icons and statements about how lovely she finds him, whereas from what I can see he totally ignores her in return.

This is the thing I learned - he might stick with her and have a long and happy life, but that won't mean he's now stable. True, she might not trigger him as much as I did, but maybe I just won't see those things. Maybe I was a stroppy cow who stood up for myself one too many times, while she simpers to him and would never, ever consider putting in boundaries the way I did. Does that make it a more successful relationship? Hahahah, no.

[valet]

Hey there, Freeatlast, I'm sorry for what you're going through. Being in a relationship with someone that we suspect as exhibiting BPD traits is difficult and confusing. I feel your pain. 

The thing that I've found is that, generally, these kinds relationships develop in cyclical terms. Those core wounds will always be there, and until your ex decides to get help she will likely repeat the same behaviors. The same logic can be applied to us.

Don't be so hard on yourself. You are not responsible for her pain. You are only responsible for your own.

Do you think that the question of her entering or not entering a new relationship is holding you back?

[Freeatlast_1]

Valet, to answer your question no it's not holding me back. I cannot move on simply because I miss her and I'm too attached still. Detaching from that relationship is the hardest thing I ever had to do. I have gone through huge obstacles in my career, and have gone through them without any trauma, but this relationship simply injured me emotionally immensely. Today for example with a very tough day when my stomach is constantly turning, even while at work. Knowing her she's probably moved on, emotionally isolated, detached from me, and having a blast with her new partner. Even knowing that doesn't help me to let go.

[C.Stein]

Valet, to answer your question no it's not holding me back. I cannot move on simply because I miss her and I'm too attached still. Detaching from that relationship is the hardest thing I ever had to do. I have gone through huge obstacles in my career, and have gone through them without any trauma, but this relationship simply injured me emotionally immensely. Today for example with a very tough day when my stomach is constantly turning, even while at work. Knowing her she's probably moved on, emotionally isolated, detached from me, and having a blast with her new partner. Even knowing that doesn't help me to let go.

What is the answer ... .how do you let go and detach?  I wish to hell I knew.

[SummerStorm]

I am wondering if my exes EX had the same issue that I'm having right now. But I will never find out because I am not in contact with her. Has any of you contacted or happen to know your Ex's ex-girlfriend? Did she go through the same idealization devaluation and discard stage? How was that relationship different from yours? I really would love to know this because it would give me an idea how her next relationship would be. I truly want her to be happy, however, it does hurt to know that she might meet "the one" and be the amazing person that she is when she's normal. Maybe with someone else, she would not dysregulate as much as she dysregulated with me.

Everyone is different, but based on what I've experienced, they really do go in cycles.  I had the incredible luck of being able to contact my former friend's ex-boyfriend, since I communicated with him when they were together and she was in the hospital.  It's scary to be able to see how her standard BPD relationship pattern developed with both me and him.  She first raged at me less than a week after she hit him for the first time. She left him a mere 7 weeks after she ended her friendship with me.  Her fear of engulfment with me kicked in when she told me she wanted to live with me and we looked at a house together.  Her fear of engulfment with him kicked in when she decided she wanted to move across the country with him and live with her parents; she broke up with him right after they had a yard sale and had started packing their stuff. 

And then there's everything else, of course.  The lies, the manipulation, the stories about her abusive exes, the never wanting to go outside, the verbal abuse, the mocking, the refusal to take responsibility for anything.  We both saw it. 

I am so incredibly glad that I am in contact with him.  He is a completely open book and actually a really nice guy.  But the lies she told about him were so convincing that I fell for them.   

[valet]

Valet, to answer your question no it's not holding me back. I cannot move on simply because I miss her and I'm too attached still. Detaching from that relationship is the hardest thing I ever had to do. I have gone through huge obstacles in my career, and have gone through them without any trauma, but this relationship simply injured me emotionally immensely. Today for example with a very tough day when my stomach is constantly turning, even while at work. Knowing her she's probably moved on, emotionally isolated, detached from me, and having a blast with her new partner. Even knowing that doesn't help me to let go.

Yeah, I get that feeling. I was there too at one point, very frustrated that I couldn't simply let it all go. To me it was like I couldn't relate to the world around me in a lot of ways.

To offer you a challenging perspective, I still feel that way at times. Detachment is a process. In order to get there we have to see it through. This includes all of those emotions. I know it is hard. I'm sorry that you're in so much pain.

[Climbmountains91]

I would love to actually speak to her and see if she went through anything but don't know if its a good idea.?

I know she cheated on him after three years and they broke up and i know he was obsessed with her and the relationship happened quite quickly. i also know he controlled her a bit with going out like if she was going on a night out with her friends, he wouldn't want her to go and he'd have a tantrum, he wasn't into it at the time, now you can't get him to stay in weekends and he's having money issues because of it. I think he still loves her but denys it so i dunno.

He now sees the obsession with her as unhealthy and stupid and i wouldn't say he was obsessed with me at the start of our relationship, i'd just say he was a bit needy but since that faze its been ice cold, even through a recycle. She was deffo his first love. I would love to talk to her though, after all she lived with him for three years, poor girl.

[balletomane]

How I wish I could talk to one of his exes. I suppose I could reach out to his ex wife, but he always told me she was violent so I don't really want to approach her. I suspect that he simply painted her black. He told me she was abusive and controlling and it got to the point where he had to leave, but I wonder now if she threw him out. It always seemed odd that she would never let him set foot back inside the house she shared with their children, even to get his possessions. He told me their relationship was very turbulent and that they only stayed together because of the children. Outside of that, I had been his longest relationship at 18 months, but he'd had a LOT of very short term liaisons apart from that. At 43 years old I found him to be unusual in that.

I vaguely know one of his ex girlfriends, but she's very much a no-nonsense type who wouldn't have any patience for discussing emotions or past relationships. She walked away from him because he was too clingy and wanted more from the relationship than she wanted to give. He talked about it as being a heartbreaking experience for him as he was so in love with her, which made it sound like a long-running relationship, but I later found out they'd only been involved for a couple of months.

There was only her, and one other of his girlfriends (who he claimed to never have been in love with) who he never split black. Every single one of his other gfs were painted as evil, paranoid, mad, cruel... .it was hard to find out what he liked about any of them. My biggest clue was the way he was with his family - he had split almost every single one of them black at some point, and they were all nervous of upsetting him because he could cut them off for years at a time.

I see his gf now sometimes on fakebook, and she obsessively clicks "like" on every single post he makes, and comments on his posts with heart icons and statements about how lovely she finds him, whereas from what I can see he totally ignores her in return.

This is the thing I learned - he might stick with her and have a long and happy life, but that won't mean he's now stable. True, she might not trigger him as much as I did, but maybe I just won't see those things. Maybe I was a stroppy cow who stood up for myself one too many times, while she simpers to him and would never, ever consider putting in boundaries the way I did. Does that make it a more successful relationship? Hahahah, no.

I could have written this. Almost every word. I've known him ever since he had his first girlfriend, and it was always the same pattern: short relationships (none longer than four months officially, but sexual contact sometimes continuing - once he slept with two exes on the same day) that ended with him telling me how abusive, manipulative, or crazy the ex was. A few weeks previously he would have been telling me how wonderful they were, but he honestly didn't seem to remember feeling that. My relationship with him followed the same turbulent pattern. Looking at his other relationships, I can see that there was no consistency in the type of person he chose to date: he basically dated anyone who was interested in him. I've only known him to turn someone down once. He also had a lot of casual liaisons. He was impulsive, and deeply suspicious of others, with a tendency to self-sabotage and to project his own feelings and behaviour onto his partner. He accused me of trying to make him angry with me, for example, when in reality I think he was the one trying to elicit anger - he wanted a reason to break up, as the relationship had lasted five months and this was the time when he usually ended things. When he'd broken up with me, he said, "We could have had many happy years together if it wasn't for your selfish and violent behaviour." I knew then that he wasn't capable of having years with anyone, happy or otherwise - if he were, why had all his other relationships been so short? - but when I pointed out that the destructive pattern was with him, he became furious and said that this was because all abusers groom and select their victims and this is what we'd all done with him. I was upset and easily cowed enough to agree with this and to apologise.

I'd like to ask one of the other exes if she did the same thing. I don't contact them as it would look weird after all this time, and I don't want to risk triggering distressing memories for the ex. He also told me that his exes didn't like me. I don't believe that; I think he just wants to keep us separate. I have no doubt that my replacement is being told how much I hate her.

[MakingMyWay]

I was her first proper relationship, she had been in a numb phase for a few years before me. She was self harming and emotionless, which I pulled her out of. With my replacement the same pattern of idealization definitely occurred but it is happening way faster. He was the best thing in the world. She "hadn't smiled like that in so long". Pretty much copy and paste what she said to me in our first few weeks but within a few days. They were saying "I love you" within the first week which took us a month. They were getting sexual within a week which took us about 3 months. The mirroring has happened already. Suddenly she is into all the stuff the replacement is into. This was super confusing to me before I found out about BPD because she never liked that stuff when she was with me.

Its really weird seeing the same pattern repeat itself but way faster. I feel like this means the devaluation will come faster and if the new guy has any sense he'll run for it. I lasted 3 years with her, but only because I bent to her and discarded values which she didn't like. She discarded when I started to wise up to it, which I think triggered her abandonment fears. Its been almost 5 months for them and I think she has been trying to add me through fake facebook accounts to check up on me which could indicate something. I don't even know if they are still together, I haven't been checking up on them for about 3 months.

[SummerStorm]

I was her first proper relationship, she had been in a numb phase for a few years before me. She was self harming and emotionless, which I pulled her out of. With my replacement the same pattern of idealization definitely occurred but it is happening way faster. He was the best thing in the world. She "hadn't smiled like that in so long". Pretty much copy and paste what she said to me in our first few weeks but within a few days. They were saying "I love you" within the first week which took us a month. They were getting sexual within a week which took us about 3 months. Its really weird seeing the same pattern repeat itself but way faster. I feel like this means the devaluation will come faster and if the new guy has any sense he'll run for it.

I lasted 3 years with her, but only because I bent to her and discarded values which she didn't like. Its been almost 5 months for them and I think she has been trying to add me through fake facebook accounts to check up on me which could indicate something.

It looks like my former friend's new boyfriend is even nicer than her last one, so I'm hoping for his sake that he gets the heck out of there before it's too late.  She does have a place to live right now.  Part of the problem with her last boyfriend is that, when she met him in February, she knew that she would need to move out of her apartment by May.  So, within a month of meeting him, she was asking him to look at apartments with her.  That being said, I wouldn't be surprised if she found a way to move in with him soon.  From what I've gathered, I think she is living alone.  Back in August, she had barely any money, and that was after months of living with her boyfriend and not helping pay rent or bills, so I'm going to guess that she is pretty tight on money now.  Based on her mom's Facebook comments, my former friend barely has any furniture or anything.  I think this is the first time she's lived by herself for a very long time, at least two years. 

The guy she started dating in February bought her the Valentine's Day gift that she asked the guy she was dating in January to buy her.  She's already told the new guy what she wants for Christmas.  And guess what?  It's all Pokemon related.  That's her standard move.  She gets into a relationship, acts like a teenager and does this whole "I refuse to adult" thing, and then leaves as soon as the other person wants to talk about serious things and act like an adult. 

She was sexually abused from ages 10-16, so it makes sense that she's basically stuck in that age range.