Anti Social Personality Disorder

[RaisenCane]

I just learned the paramour (or ex-paramour not sure which)of my uBPDw may be have an anti-social personality disorder. I originally thought he was NPD but I did some research and what I know of him, it fits perfectly (much better than NPD).  My biggest concern is that if we can't work out our marriage, my children are going to be around him regularly and that is more than a bit frightening.

A little background is that he is a MC and spirituality counselor. I also just learned that he only likes to counsel women and his favorite diagnosis is BPD of the woman's mother to earn their trust and tell them how amazing they are. My wife fell for this hook line and sinker and thinks he is amazing as do most people who know him as he is very manipulative.

Has anyone dealt with someone with ASPD? How do they interact with someone with BPD? I imagine they play on their insecurities and manipulate but in the long run, does it work out?

The more I learn about this guy, the more frustrated I get with my wife that she has put our children in this situation and I get very frustrated with her. Suggestions?

RC

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Blimblam]

All I can say is that I have known a few peeps with ASPD in my time.  They tend to be quite the charmers and know how to hustle people. Not the kind of folks you want in your kids life. It is like they focus on what it is that you are missing then act as if they are that or have direct access to it. They press on your insecurity buttons then feel out for what is missing then give that to you.  I don't know about that guy though but you may want to see a professional to get some advice on how to approach this.

[sweetheart]

Hi RaisenCane,

I can hear you are worried and frustrated and that is understandable because you want to protect your family.

I think however we have to be very careful with attaching random diagnoses to anyone, because ultimately we can't know unless we are able to clinically assess them.

What is the situation with your w and children, are you separated and are they now with this man?

What do you think is going to happen, ultimately you are the father and you have a say over who is in your childrens lives, especially if you believe them to be a negative influence.

Try and focus on specific types of behaviours and actual things said in relation to this man, rather than spurious attributes around his mental health.

Check out with your children, depending on their ages how they feel. Talk to your wife citing actual concerns. Have you met with this man, what is his background, his qualifications.

[RaisenCane]

Sweetheart,

My wife and I are still together. She desperately wants to separate but I won't do it mainly because I don't want my kids around him. I understand I can ask that she not have them around him for awhile but that is only temporary. I found text messages between them talking about getting married and having more children so I know if we divorce, they will probably end up together and my kids will be around him a lot. She was in a relationship with him for nearly a year and his son is friends with my sons. He has taken my boys hunting with her and one of my sons had a sleepover and they all think he is a great guy but he has a very checkered past. At this point she says they are NC but I don't know if that is true since she has lied to me so much about him. My boys are 14, 13 and 12 and my girls are 9 and 6. At this point, they do not know she was in an adulterous relationship with him so I really can't ask them anything about him.

I was told he may be ASPD by 2 doctors that are close to him but neither a P.

It's not that I'm caught up on a diagnosis, I'm just trying to determine what/who I'm dealing with, how do I keep him away from my kids and if she will ever see the person he truly is.

[sweetheart]

Thanks for clarifying the situation.

I would be inclined to take more control of the situation regarding this mans involvement in your childrens lives. As their father you have every right to express your misgivings to your wife, on the basis of their affair alone. I understand that this might be hard given that your children don't know about the affair, but they are your children too, so if you don't want your kids around him, how would this work in practice? Do they have to spend so much time with him? Why are they spending time with him?

I can hear in your post just how important it is for you to protect your children from what has happened between your w and this man. It must be very difficult for you living with the emotional impact this has had on your marriage and also the long term implications this may yet have for your family. That's a lot of balls to keep in the air. Where are you at in all that's gone on, what support is there for you ?

[Ceruleanblue]

I think the above post is right, that pwAPD know just how to play up to areas in your life that are lacking, or where you have a wound. The become what they know you want or need. Of course, it's all fake, and just a way to rope you in.

I don't think there is anything you can do to control how much interaction your kids have with this man, if your wife it determined to leave you. I think all you can do is be a good Dad, and show them through your actions, what YOU are. He may dupe your kids, it's very likely. People with APD, do a lot of damage, but they certainly aren't all rapists or  murderers. It's far more common that they be the neighbor next door. I mean, the truly bad cases of APD, are locked up in prison. It's the ones that are able to blend in that do a LOT more damage.

That being said though, there are definitely limits to what you can do about this guy. I think if you try to keep your kids away, or influence them too much in regards to this guy, it's going to be you that ends up looking bad. I think they best you can do is to let it all play out. Be the loving, good Dad you are, because really, what else can you do? If this guy was a pedophile, or something, you could keep him away, but he's a counselor for goodness sake.

BPDh's ex is a therapist, so I get what you are dealing with. She stabbed him, threw things at him, hit him with a hammer while he was sleeping in bed, and he covered for her while getting stitched up in the ER. She cheated, and left him after 24 years of this crap, and I'm sure he wasn't a saint either, but I do know, NO ONE suspected her of just how evil and physical she could be. I'm sure her patients have no idea of just how unstable this woman is. But there isn't anything we could do about it. BPDh had his chance to file charges, and have an impact, but he chose to do nothing. So basically, this crazy woman is having access to people who go to her for help. Scary, but it is just the way it is.

[RaisenCane]

Sweetheart,

I have a T that has been extremely helpful as well as a P. I have a couple members of the clergy that have been very helpful and encouraging. My family lives about 9 hours away but they have been very supportive in helping me through this as well.

As far as I know, my kids haven't been exposed to him since the end of Sept but if we separate it will be difficult to keep them apart unless a judge orders it.

Cerlueanblue,

I try not to mention him or his son to the kids (out of sight out of mind). If the kids mention something they did together I try not to let it bother me too much but it's difficult. In addition to being a counselor, he was also a member of the clergy in my neighborhood so everyone knows him and thinks he is a great guy. I know he has told many lies about his ex and I'm expecting the same if my wife and I separate so trying to stay in front of it as much as I can.

She has already made comments about my kids not wanting to talk to me when they are teenagers and the neighbors not wanting me to be around their kids alone which I know are both lies, but I can see what's coming. She has also indicated I will feel the wrath of her family if I make things difficult for her but her one sister is one my side and keeps in close contact with my family and her parents will not agree with what she is doing so these are all threats to play on my anxieties.

[formflier]

  RaisenCane, I would suggest you put less time in effort into labeling and more time and effort into focusing on healthy responses to behaviors.  For the record, I used to be enamored with figuring out the diagnosis and labels and put a lot of energy into that.  I'm convinced that energy was largely wasted, but it was a learning process.  You kids aren't going to be affected by whether or not he is APD, BPD, PPD.  They will be affected by the choices and behaviors that flow from those choices of the paramour and your wife.  Healthy consistent boundaries and responses to behaviors the lower the level of drama are generally going to be your moneymakers and the places to spend your energy.  Being in a r/s with a pwBPD can really sap your energy.  So you have to spend it wisely.    

FF