3 years later

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

So three years ago I broke up with my BPD ex. We were together for 2 years. The two years that we were together were the most intense relationship I've ever had. We were oblivious to our tendencies then. She was unaware of having BPD. I was unaware of having grown up emotionally parentified in a codependent/addict household. We met coincidentally and ignited immediately.

During the relationship we moved in together. We went through cycles of drug abuse, alcohol abuse, endless nights or days of nothing but sex and usually drugs or alcohol. There were also plenty of peaceful normal times where we did normal couple things. Then there were also times where we were physically and verbally aggressive with each other. There were suicide attempts. There was public self harm. Trashing of insides of hotel rooms. There were times where she would run out the door and run through the neighborhood screaming. Sometimes barely clothed. There were times we drank way too much in public and she would become violent to the point of fear of death, injury, jail, or the psyche ward. Through it all, because I knew she was damaged(I was still unaware of my own damage at the time), I stayed because I thought she was my soul mate. I truly had never felt triggered or activated on that level. She was the girl that I thought would have been my best friend at any age had we met even when we were children. We were in our early thirties at the time. We had the most intense physical, emotional, and mental connection I've ever had with anyone.

I knew that her attacks and rages weren't towards me, even if they seemed to be. We are both very intelligent, and I knew, just from common sense and because I could see it in her eyes, that the rage was more fear than anger. When she would rage she would look like a frightened animal. I felt bad for her, not scared for me. So I kept enduring. I put two and two together after yet another threat of suicide or calling the police and telling them something untrue about me, that she was borderline. I read every book I could find on the subject, books for borderlines, and books for their partners.

I told her I felt she had BPD, and she would deny, and then the attacks got worse as she could feel me pulling away. New Years Eve we spent with her locked in her closet with a knife telling me to get out so she could kill herself, and telling me that if I broke into the closet she would attack me. The next holiday was just as bad. I couldn't take it anymore. I got a separate apartment, slowly moved valuable things out little by little, and then one day told her I was leaving and had a separate place that she couldn't know the address of.

In the months that went by, every night would consist of up to 500 texts in a row. Threats of self harm. Threats of calling the police on me for something made up. Insults. Apologies. I hate you. I love you. Etc. I began to have panic attacks. Sometimes I would start believing that I was already dead, or that I was crazy and in an insane asylum. I would have attacks where I felt I was having a heart attack, or I would start to dissociate and life would seem unreal to me and I'd believe that I was, like I said, dead or in some sort of dream. I lived in near constant anxiety and panic. I coped by drinking and partying excessively. One day after a particularly bad panic attack, I called a therapist for the first time in my life.

In the meantime, my ex had began going to DBT therapy. She went for half a year or so. She has since continued to go to weekly therapy.

In my therapy, I discovered things that are very obvious to me now. That I was emotionally parentified, that I grew up in a codependent/addictive household, that I have very bad adult ADD. I cope with a lot of these things in ways I'm aware of, addictive tendencies(even to things that aren't necessarily harmful), distancing, high risk behaviors, perfectionism, etc. I had developed PTSD from the relationship, which also brought back things like hypochondria and nail biting that I haven't experienced since my teenage years.

As time went on I became less frightened of her. She ended up becoming really good friends with a girl I know separately. We don't see each other, although our friend circles overlap slightly now. I recently ran into the mutual friend, who told me that there have been a couple of "not good nights" without going into detail. She didn't need to.

Recently we began text messaging. We both date other people, and have dated multiple people since we broke up. Obviously she feels like I should have given the relationship another chance after she went through DBT. I told her I gave the relationship a million chances. Suddenly though, in the last few days, unprovoked, I feel like maybe we could try again. I just can't let go of the good I saw that could have been there. I feel like I need to know now, with all of the things I have learned, what was real and what was idealization and projection. Is this a horrible idea? In the three years that have gone by, even with new girlfriends or people I'm dating, not a day has gone by, probably not more than a couple of hours, that I don't think of her.

Very confused. I haven't been the same since the break up.

Sorry for the long initial post. Hi everyone.

[Distant]

So three years ago I broke up with my BPD ex. We were together for 2 years. The two years that we were together were the most intense relationship I've ever had. We were oblivious to our tendencies then. She was unaware of having BPD. I was unaware of having grown up emotionally parentified in a codependent/addict household. We met coincidentally and ignited immediately.

During the relationship we moved in together. We went through cycles of drug abuse, alcohol abuse, endless nights or days of nothing but sex and usually drugs or alcohol. There were also plenty of peaceful normal times where we did normal couple things. Then there were also times where we were physically and verbally aggressive with each other. There were suicide attempts. There was public self harm. Trashing of insides of hotel rooms. There were times where she would run out the door and run through the neighborhood screaming. Sometimes barely clothed. There were times we drank way too much in public and she would become violent to the point of fear of death, injury, jail, or the psyche ward. Through it all, because I knew she was damaged(I was still unaware of my own damage at the time), I stayed because I thought she was my soul mate. I truly had never felt triggered or activated on that level. She was the girl that I thought would have been my best friend at any age had we met even when we were children. We were in our early thirties at the time. We had the most intense physical, emotional, and mental connection I've ever had with anyone.

I knew that her attacks and rages weren't towards me, even if they seemed to be. We are both very intelligent, and I knew, just from common sense and because I could see it in her eyes, that the rage was more fear than anger. When she would rage she would look like a frightened animal. I felt bad for her, not scared for me. So I kept enduring. I put two and two together after yet another threat of suicide or calling the police and telling them something untrue about me, that she was borderline. I read every book I could find on the subject, books for borderlines, and books for their partners.

I told her I felt she had BPD, and she would deny, and then the attacks got worse as she could feel me pulling away. New Years Eve we spent with her locked in her closet with a knife telling me to get out so she could kill herself, and telling me that if I broke into the closet she would attack me. The next holiday was just as bad. I couldn't take it anymore. I got a separate apartment, slowly moved valuable things out little by little, and then one day told her I was leaving and had a separate place that she couldn't know the address of.

In the months that went by, every night would consist of up to 500 texts in a row. Threats of self harm. Threats of calling the police on me for something made up. Insults. Apologies. I hate you. I love you. Etc. I began to have panic attacks. Sometimes I would start believing that I was already dead, or that I was crazy and in an insane asylum. I would have attacks where I felt I was having a heart attack, or I would start to dissociate and life would seem unreal to me and I'd believe that I was, like I said, dead or in some sort of dream. I lived in near constant anxiety and panic. I coped by drinking and partying excessively. One day after a particularly bad panic attack, I called a therapist for the first time in my life.

In the meantime, my ex had began going to DBT therapy. She went for half a year or so. She has since continued to go to weekly therapy.

In my therapy, I discovered things that are very obvious to me now. That I was emotionally parentified, that I grew up in a codependent/addictive household, that I have very bad adult ADD. I cope with a lot of these things in ways I'm aware of, addictive tendencies(even to things that aren't necessarily harmful), distancing, high risk behaviors, perfectionism, etc. I had developed PTSD from the relationship, which also brought back things like hypochondria and nail biting that I haven't experienced since my teenage years.

As time went on I became less frightened of her. She ended up becoming really good friends with a girl I know separately. We don't see each other, although our friend circles overlap slightly now. I recently ran into the mutual friend, who told me that there have been a couple of "not good nights" without going into detail. She didn't need to.

Recently we began text messaging. We both date other people, and have dated multiple people since we broke up. Obviously she feels like I should have given the relationship another chance after she went through DBT. I told her I gave the relationship a million chances. Suddenly though, in the last few days, unprovoked, I feel like maybe we could try again. I just can't let go of the good I saw that could have been there. I feel like I need to know now, with all of the things I have learned, what was real and what was idealization and projection. Is this a horrible idea? In the three years that have gone by, even with new girlfriends or people I'm dating, not a day has gone by, probably not more than a couple of hours, that I don't think of her.

Very confused. I haven't been the same since the break up.

Sorry for the long initial post. Hi everyone.

[Fr4nz]

Hey Distant,

Welcome to the family

After how much time you began to text each other? Who broke NC?

Anyway, the common sense here is that a person with BPD has chances to have a normal life if they enter therapy and is committed to improve. In function of this you can judge from a logical point of view if it makes sense to give it another try or not

[Distant]

We were never really NC. We were for a while, and then it would just be little check ins here and there. And then it became a long time again, and then recently she texted me a quick question about the name of a movie I mentioned a long time ago. That turned into a back and forth for a little bit. But it is very hard for me. No relationship in my life has been more pivotal, and for good reason. We both had issues we were unaware of, and I think the explosion of our end caused us both to address a lot of other issues. Upbringings, personality disorders, long standing self destructive patterns... .things we were previously unaware of. There is no doubt in my mind to the fact  that we are both better equipped now than we were then. More self aware  and under control etc. But I'm just curious how much of that is only because we aren't around to trigger each other. When things were bad they were so bad that I worry that another one would cause something really irreversibly bad to happen. I mean there were times where I was literally afraid for my life. Blood all over the walls, knives everywhere, real Shining type stuff. Things you can't forget. It really dawns on you how much you could screw your life up while you're sprinting down the street trying to catch someone who is fully naked and screaming covered in blood, knowing that if they get caught you are either going to jail for something you didn't do, or they are going to a psyche ward for something they did do. Even after all that haha which I know sounds insane, I still shake my head and think man we really had something special when it wasn't nearly lethal.

[Fr4nz]

We were never really NC. We were for a while, and then it would just be little check ins here and there. And then it became a long time again, and then recently she texted me a quick question about the name of a movie I mentioned a long time ago. That turned into a back and forth for a little bit. But it is very hard for me. No relationship in my life has been more pivotal, and for good reason. We both had issues we were unaware of, and I think the explosion of our end caused us both to address a lot of other issues. Upbringings, personality disorders, long standing self destructive patterns... .things we were previously unaware of. There is no doubt in my mind to the fact  that we are both better equipped now than we were then. More self aware  and under control etc. But I'm just curious how much of that is only because we aren't around to trigger each other. When things were bad they were so bad that I worry that another one would cause something really irreversibly bad to happen. I mean there were times where I was literally afraid for my life. Blood all over the walls, knives everywhere, real Shining type stuff. Things you can't forget. It really dawns on you how much you could screw your life up while you're sprinting down the street trying to catch someone who is fully naked and screaming covered in blood, knowing that if they get caught you are either going to jail for something you didn't do, or they are going to a psyche ward for something they did do. Even after all that haha which I know sounds insane, I still shake my head and think man we really had something special when it wasn't nearly lethal.

Well, I can relate, even if we didn't achieve (luckily) such extremes during the relationship.

Point is, when you have a relationship with a BPD woman, the relationship has a chance to last in the long run only if the person with BPD enters therapy and tackles/solves her own issues. Obviously we also need to make our part, i.e., solve our own issues in order to become better persons.

The only person who can decide if it's worth another try with your ex... .is you. Decide very carefully my friend... .perhaps you may want first to see if it's possible to achieve a stable friendship with her.

[Distant]

Okay so we are gonna meet up today. We haven't had much real contact in three years besides occasional text messages. To me this is more or less, we hang out as friends, if it goes well maybe we do it again. If within the next week or two I get 900 text messages telling me what an ass i am for leaving her and that she's gonna kill herself, then I know we should never speak again.

[Fr4nz]

Okay so we are gonna meet up today. We haven't had much real contact in three years besides occasional text messages. To me this is more or less, we hang out as friends, if it goes well maybe we do it again. If within the next week or two I get 900 text messages telling me what an ass i am for leaving her and that she's gonna kill herself, then I know we should never speak again.

Well... .as a simplification that's okay, at least initially

But really, the only way she can truly sustain long term relationships is to enter therapy and face her longstanding demons. Try to understand, little by little and as kindly as possible, if it is possible to obtain such kind of commitment from her.

[Reforming]

Hi Distant,

It sounds like you've already made a decision to give it another go. It's clear from what you've written that you felt and still feel a strong attachment to her and I think a lot of us can relate to this.

You've both seem to have been working on yourselves which deserves a lot of praise and respect.

My thoughts are;

1. Check out the staying board. The members there can help give you the support and guidance that you may need. And there are some really good skills that would be very useful if you do try and reboot things

2. Be realistic about your expectations. Even with commitment and appropriate therapy effective treatment of a PD is a long hard road with lots of twists and turns. There are no guarantees and losing yourself along the way won't help her or you. There are many here who found the 2nd round more destructive than the the first so be careful.

3. There are some couples on this site who have found a way through, but BOTH partners have done a lot of work on themselves. This takes a lot of commitment and honesty

4. Try and be honest about your reasons for reengaging - it might be worth exploring this with a professional and objective third party (therapist). The drama and intensity of a BPD relationship can be particularly compelling if you suffer from adult ADHD.

5. Try and honestly acknowledge the potential risks to yourself. From what you've written it sounds like things got pretty hairy and could do so again. What are the potential risks to you? How would you cope with these? Don't lose sight of your own needs. Most people with ADHD do better in relationships where there's structure and stability

The best of luck either way and keep posting

Reforming

[AsGoodAsItGets]

Good luck

[Distant]

Went to dinner. Ended up being okay. No friction. A couple of really microscopic jabs at the girl I'm currently dating, which caused me to do the same to her about the guy she dates, but they were laughed off on both sides. Felt a bit sad, as I could tell a lot of what had been there before was gone, from my end, but we genuinely got along and laughed had a good time. I was more aware of us lacking things in common than before, and more aware of things she's now into that I just would never take interest in at all. It's hard to imagine everything we went through, which we both also acknowledged. Seems like some sort of blurry dream. I can't imagine being in that state of trauma and insanity again. Can't imagine drinking that much, doing that many drugs. The level of reckless debauchery. Everything. Also can't imagine destroying each other's property or allowing myself to be physically attacked. It's all so weird now. When we left I said hey promise you won't send me 500 texts at 3am in a few nights. She laughed and said she's not that person now. And then I haven't heard from her since, and haven't contacted her. Feel at peace in a lot of ways now.

[Fr4nz]

You got somehow closure, that's good!

[outside9x]

Hi Distant,

I saw this post.  I think you are making a wise choice regardless of what she may want.  She sounds a lot like my EXBPDGF of 2 1/2 years.  Though she had none of the death threats.

My opinion, and its just that, is that, (and going on my ex's behavior, smarts etc) is that after awhile, they know inside there are problems (she claimed PSTD among others but never BPD) and after awhile they will admit to themselves and maybe to you their craziness etc, but,,, in true fashion makes excuses for their actions etc and we are of course are one of those excuses/blames,  that causes them all to act out terribly the way they did, along with other emotional things they may have been feeling. (Sorta justifying their actions!) 

They also may point to the drinking and drug use as just a way to survive at the time.  So, unrealistic, as I am sure that is to you, they think that, they may even get very religious (Mine did before me, and of course after me.)  and think of themselves as offering up all the hurt and pain you caused as martyr and just forgiving you for those things (in their minds) that went on. 

I know even after the 1st year of not being with her, she denied even knowing I was losing my job of 27 years while she demanding money from me, yet I already lost it while we still were together.  (Totally in denial to even think she could be that heartless, but emails prove otherwise. Oh, and don't use , facts, or any reasoning.  It doesn't work.  LOL)

So, remember, they rewrite history to their liking, and she just may view you in her eyes that you caused most of it, but she forgives you, but still deep down likes you or loves you but knows it can't work, but of course not for the real or right reasons.   

Hope this makes some sense to you. If you would go back, I think, after a awhile you would be her whipping boy again and worst.  The insanity of the Push and pull, and those hot moments that touch both of you, hopefully are fading.   

It's a struggle for us all, because it is an addiction, but one you will win.  Just don't equate love, for what you felt (at those high points with her) with her as something you should feel with another.  Lots of push and pull and heartaches cause those.

Take care!