the BPD love VS the love everyone deserves

[taniasofia]

Hello all,

I was in a relationship with a pwBPD. My relationship lasted 5 years... .it got to a point in which she would press my buttons by just zoning out because she knew that this would tick off the bomb-distant herself. When she would  do this i would just STRESSSSSS and ask her in all kinds of ways what was going on. She would say nothing that it was all in my head but it wasnt. I would eventually explode and i wold say mean things and break up. I would then have some alone time and would always think that i took things too far by breaking up because that is not what i want. I cant tell you how many times this happened because i myself dont know. The blame was always placed on me! that our relationship was so dysfunctional because of me. Last year in May, after a breakup, she went cold turkey. I was going crazy. I didnt know what to say or do, I guess i was already conditioned to these cycles. I had a "friend" which i had intro to her i would say 2 years ago. We were both in college and i thought it was unfair for her to stay in just because I had a lot of homework. So i would not have a problem with them two going out to the club. I mean it was my gf and my friend and i trusted her completely (wrong thing to do). WELL after the time we broke up in May, I had the feeling she was up to no good and it was with this friend. Well my gut instinct wasnt wrong! she replaced me with this friend. I confronted her more than one time and she told me they were not dating, Yet when i confronted her she had marks on her neck. This broke my heart into a million and one pieces. I have to be honest, this was a total shocker for me. i didnt know how to accept and or handle the situation. The love of my life, the person with whom I had so many plans with had just been with what was suppose to be my friend. My nerves were already sky rocketing, i punched her, she kicked me out of the car, I went to mine went home and just didnt know what to do. I was broken, devastated, anxious. this rebound lasted from May till August but her and I had contact in between and she would come by my house as well. We got back together in August. I honestly thought it was all my fault and i could not live with the thought that i had lost the love of my life for my behavior. When we got back I was a full time job full time student and was also doing a internship. I tried giving her the best, yet the best was no enough. A month down the road the samething happened. I told myself i wouldnt do it again yet it happened yet another time. Till the third time, in November, she left and went back to the same person.

We spoke a couple times and she had told me i wasnt getting anywhere. I then told her that maybe we could do what she wanted all along which was to move out together. I guess that had changed too because she no longer wanted that either.


My question now is, can a pwBPD love? I mean do they even have an idea about what love is? My now Ex-BPDgf wrote me a letter and told me she truly deeply loves me and that im the person she wants to be with but that i deserve better and that she does love me even though she has done so much harm to me. I truly deeply love this person! the realtionship she is in now involves domestic violence. and im question myself, why would she leave saying she loves me and worst of all, to someone that treats her so poorly, yet she says this person is caring.

I would like to know what you guys think.


Can a BPD love? I think that my ex-BPDgf was working on this rebound long before she left with her. I think i was being fooled long before the actual thing went down. I feel like I was lied to throughout the relationship. I feel like the whole relaionship was a joke. I feel like her master piece. Yet, I cant seem to be able to forget. I no longer crave having contact with her. Nor do i feel desperate to contact her im just so hurt and wold like answers... .answers that i know i will never get, and if i did i know i would more than likely not believe.   

[Lonely_Astro]

Can they love?  This is the age old question.  From our perspective, we can't see that they do because of all the insensitive and inhumane things they do to the people they 'love'.  So can/do they 'love'?  Not in the sense of how we see love.

What I mean is it's an unhealthy love.  They are always trying to balance the seesaw. One end is fear of abandonment, the other is fear of engulfment.  They run from one end of the seesaw to the other at breakneck speeds.  Like all physics, the faster their speed gets, the more unstable the seesaw gets.  So, how do they balance the seesaw?  They don't slow down, no. They find a new r/s (aka triangulation).  They put one leg in the middle of the new seesaw.  This slows the 'old' (you) seesaw and it stabilizes.  But now they have to run back and forth on two seesaws.  Since they can't trust their own feelings, they see the old seesaw as bad because it was so unstable.  The new seesaw MUST be better because it's stable, right?  So they jump fully onto the new seesaw and start the process all over again.

Now, what further muddies the water is this: they know this (well, most).  They are in control of their actions.  They just can't, for whatever reason, stop.  Skip put it well when he compared them to an alcoholic who says "this is my last drink," and then feels shameful when it isn't.  My ex was/is a serial cheater.  Unbeknownst to me, I was the other guy at one point, became the 'primary', was cheated on, and eventually replaced.  I didn't fully know (and still don't!) how far the rabbit hole goes.

The point is, you need to work on yourself.  Ask yourself truly why you feel like you love her like you do.  Reading your post, you actually sound kind of wishy washy on the 'why' to me.  There's plenty of reason why you do, I still love J (the one I knew, anyway). There's also plenty of reason why you don't.  Those reasons will come to you as you travel down your path and the FOG (fear, obligation, and guilt) lifts. It takes time, but it does lift.  These relationships are tough, man.  They take a lot out of you.  Trauma bonds are formed.  Enmeshment and co-dependency happens.  When (not if!) the end comes, it's extra hurtful.  Trust me... .we've all been (and are) there.

Keep posting!

[Confused108]

I am so sorry you went thru this. And no less cheating on you with your friend. Do they love? I would like to think they do. But to be honest I have my doubts about that. I had the same with my ex. Wrote me this beautiful letter that she loved me extra . I was the one blah blah. Only days before she dumped me outta the clear blue sky. She was my childhood sweetheart . And was the love of my life. Was. She found me on FB 28 years later and basically did the same thing she did to me as a teen. Push/pull. Love/ Hate. I was most likely replaced after she dumped me I'm sure. I didn't k ow anything about BPD and thought it strange how she would just circle the drain with her ex husband, ex boyfriends, before she got to me. Because this is what they do. You one day , the ex lover the next and it continues. I know you love her. I get it. Because I'm still hurting too. But walk away. Unless she gets help and a lot of times they don't  it's just gonna be the same thing over and over. You deserve better then that.

[GreenEyedMonster]

I think that pwBPD can love.  But I think the only thing they recognize as "love" is the extreme high of falling in love.  That's why they leave you for someone else -- to get the high back.  They think they aren't in love with you anymore because they aren't high.  Enduring love is too subtle an emotion for someone to feel when they live on an emotional roller coaster.  It doesn't mean they aren't capable of it, however, or that they are somehow sociopaths.  It's just that their "baseline" emotions are much higher than nons.

[Lonely_Astro]

I think that pwBPD can love.  But I think the only thing they recognize as "love" is the extreme high of falling in love.  That's why they leave you for someone else -- to get the high back.  They think they aren't in love with you anymore because they aren't high.  Enduring love is too subtle an emotion for someone to feel when they live on an emotional roller coaster.  It doesn't mean they aren't capable of it, however, or that they are somehow sociopaths.  It's just that their "baseline" emotions are much higher than nons.

^ This.  They need constant stimuli to feel like they exist.  If they aren't getting that euphoria of love, they seek to soothe their emptiness some other way.

Many of them do show traits of psycho/sociopathic behavior though.  Mine did(does).  Welcome to the world of Cluster B.

[klacey3]

I think that pwBPD can love.  But I think the only thing they recognize as "love" is the extreme high of falling in love.  That's why they leave you for someone else -- to get the high back.  They think they aren't in love with you anymore because they aren't high.  Enduring love is too subtle an emotion for someone to feel when they live on an emotional roller coaster.  It doesn't mean they aren't capable of it, however, or that they are somehow sociopaths.  It's just that their "baseline" emotions are much higher than nons.

Interesting, I thought they believe they 'love' but their version of love is based on need and how much you can fulfil their needs. When you start needing things from them they would rather have it easy and start again with someone new. eg. You buy a computer for £1000 and it is great at first, then it starts having problems and you need to pay for repairs so they trade you in for a new one as if its nothing. I thought they feel like they are in love but when its difficult they lose interest because you are not meeting all their needs. Shallow emotions. Maybe I am wrong about this.

[bdyw8]

Interesting, I thought they believe they 'love' but their version of love is based on need and how much you can fulfil their needs. When you start needing things from them they would rather have it easy and start again with someone new. eg. You buy a computer for £1000 and it is great at first, then it starts having problems and you need to pay for repairs so they trade you in for a new one as if its nothing. I thought they feel like they are in love but when its difficult they lose interest because you are not meeting all their needs. Shallow emotions. Maybe I am wrong about this.

I agree entirely.   I don't think my exBPD loved me UNconditionally.  Her love was conditional on me meeting her needs.  If I made any requests for my needs, she made me out to be crazy.

I was going through a hard time in my life a few months ago and I needed her support.  I asked her if she could just give me a hug and tell me things would be okay and we'd get through it together - she made me out to be insane to ask for this!  It was unbelievable.  She told me I needed professional help and that I was asking too much of her. 

Am I crazy, or was this too much to ask?  I don't think it was.  To me this was a perfect example how self-centred and conditional her love towards me was.  She had little to no empathy and when she did show empathy or compassion, there were always strings attached.

That's my two cents... .   

[ajr5679]

Mine was all about what she needed . If I told her that I needed something. I was punished for having needs. She would tell me that she could not handle my needs and then she would punish me.

[Confused108]

I think that pwBPD can love.  But I think the only thing they recognize as "love" is the extreme high of falling in love.  That's why they leave you for someone else -- to get the high back.  They think they aren't in love with you anymore because they aren't high.  Enduring love is too subtle an emotion for someone to feel when they live on an emotional roller coaster.  It doesn't mean they aren't capable of it, however, or that they are somehow sociopaths.  It's just that their "baseline" emotions are much higher than nons.

^ This.  They need constant stimuli to feel like they exist.  If they aren't getting that euphoria of love, they seek to soothe their emptiness some other way.

Many of them do show traits of psycho/sociopathic behavior though.  Mine did(does).  Welcome to the world of Cluster B.

YES!  Mine showed signs of  Sociopathic behavior as well. I was in a major car accident the day before she dumped me and didn't even give 2 sh*ts! This was a person I knew since 12 yo. No emotions just oh that must have been tough on you! What! Are you kidding? What a response. Well now I know she did t care anymore bc for her it was over ... .So WHY CARE?

[Confused108]

Interesting, I thought they believe they 'love' but their version of love is based on need and how much you can fulfil their needs. When you start needing things from them they would rather have it easy and start again with someone new. eg. You buy a computer for £1000 and it is great at first, then it starts having problems and you need to pay for repairs so they trade you in for a new one as if its nothing. I thought they feel like they are in love but when its difficult they lose interest because you are not meeting all their needs. Shallow emotions. Maybe I am wrong about this.

I agree entirely.   I don't think my exBPD loved me UNconditionally.  Her love was conditional on me meeting her needs.  If I made any requests for my needs, she made me out to be crazy.

I was going through a hard time in my life a few months ago and I needed her support.  I asked her if she could just give me a hug and tell me things would be okay and we'd get through it together - she made me out to be insane to ask for this!  It was unbelievable.  She told me I needed professional help and that I was asking too much of her. 

Am I crazy, or was this too much to ask?  I don't think it was.  To me this was a perfect example how self-centred and conditional her love towards me was.  She had little to no empathy and when she did show empathy or compassion, there were always strings attached.

That's my two cents... .   

Lol! Sounded like my ex too. I was told I was Obsessed with her because I said one fateful night I loved her. Like I told her every night . But this night was different. She then basically turned everything around on me saying I was texting her constantly and not giving her space and I should go to see a cognitive therapist ! I was like are you serious? Yup tried to make it sound like I was the crazy one and she was normal!

[GreenEyedMonster]

I think that pwBPD can love.  But I think the only thing they recognize as "love" is the extreme high of falling in love.  That's why they leave you for someone else -- to get the high back.  They think they aren't in love with you anymore because they aren't high.  Enduring love is too subtle an emotion for someone to feel when they live on an emotional roller coaster.  It doesn't mean they aren't capable of it, however, or that they are somehow sociopaths.  It's just that their "baseline" emotions are much higher than nons.

Interesting, I thought they believe they 'love' but their version of love is based on need and how much you can fulfil their needs. When you start needing things from them they would rather have it easy and start again with someone new. eg. You buy a computer for £1000 and it is great at first, then it starts having problems and you need to pay for repairs so they trade you in for a new one as if its nothing. I thought they feel like they are in love but when its difficult they lose interest because you are not meeting all their needs. Shallow emotions. Maybe I am wrong about this.

These aren't necessarily mutually exclusive.  If you have abandonment fears, you get "high" off being accepted and wanted, too. 

[klacey3]

bdyw8 - You were definetly not crazy for wanting your ex to tell you it was going to be ok and wanted a hug! I am sure they would have expected more than that if the situation was reversed.

ajr5679 - That must have been tough, I think they tend to do that a lot. I know it happened to me too.

confused108 - I am so sorry to hear about the car accident! That must have been awful for you and I am sure it felt so much worse to not have support from your partner. I remember when I had told my pwBPD that my dad had cancer. He left it a day before asking If I was ok and when I mentioned I was upset he didn't talk to me at the time he got moody and said "I asked you if you were alright despite everything you have put me through today. Whatever" I cursed at him for moaning at me for what I have put him through at a time like this and his response was "well text him then and not me". I ignored him the rest of the day as I was upset. What he did next was send me the following message: "has he got long?" "oh you still had time to block me. priorities. You must be with loverboy". Ahh makes me so mad to recall.

[Confused108]

bdyw8 - You were definetly not crazy for wanting your ex to tell you it was going to be ok and wanted a hug! I am sure they would have expected more than that if the situation was reversed.

ajr5679 - That must have been tough, I think they tend to do that a lot. I know it happened to me too.

confused108 - I am so sorry to hear about the car accident! That must have been awful for you and I am sure it felt so much worse to not have support from your partner. I remember when I had told my pwBPD that my dad had cancer. He left it a day before asking If I was ok and when I mentioned I was upset he didn't talk to me at the time he got moody and said "I asked you if you were alright despite everything you have put me through today. Whatever" I cursed at him for moaning at me for what I have put him through at a time like this and his response was "well text him then and not me". I ignored him the rest of the day as I was upset. What he did next was send me the following message: "has he got long?" "oh you still had time to block me. priorities. You must be with loverboy". Ahh makes me so mad to recall.

sorry You went thru this as well. It really just baffles me how they can do this to people. And people who really do love them.  It's Insane! The way they "bait" us is incredible.  I mean having a parent with cancer is tough enough! No empathy nothing! Makes my blood boil! I hope your Father is doing well.

[klacey3]

Thanks confused, I just have no idea either... .surely they have some ability to empathise because they know exactly what to do and say when they want a reaction from us... but they don't care about empathising to make us feel better. Very complicated. I hope everything is ok with you health now.

In relation to the question in the OP, as far as I know borderlines feel at the time they love us, but then when they paint us black they really feel like they hate us too. But their love is all based on them and how well we meet their needs. It is like the way a toddler loves their parent.

Their feelings for us change rapidly. Is this what is meant by shallow emotions? Do borderlines have shallow emotions? I am not sure?

[Confused108]

Thank you . Yes I am doing much better thanks. I do at one time know my ex loved me. My Mother broke us up when we were teens and months later my ex went into a mental hospital. She was never the same after that. She was normal when I first meet her. No issues at all. Even when I dated her for a short time. Now I'm 43 and her 42 and she found me on FB and started this push/ pull.She changed! lthe way she is now... .A Monster. Sleeps with strangers etc. she broke my heart. And yes painted black I am . She even blocked me on FB. I don't accept to ever hear or see her again.

[taniasofia]

Thank you all so very much!  you all have no idea how much reading your posts helps! Reading them is hurtful because it opens my eyes more to how serious this disorder is! I also remember one time in which due to her mood swings I had an emotional breakdown and I took myself to the hospital oh lord worst thing to do (according to her). She accused me of being crazy and said how i was too much to handle. I told her, like dude, Im going through a lot ( i knew not to dare say that part and actually the main reason of my emotional breakdown was the relationship because this would would be the death of me hearing her go off on me even more) that i just needed my gf to be there for me and support me and tell me that everything would be okay... .I did get it actually but it was a ugh! i guess!Now that i read you guys' stories i realize how i was always so minuscule in the picture when it came down to meeting my needs!  :'(   

[Confused108]

Thank you all so very much!  you all have no idea how much reading your posts helps! Reading them is hurtful because it opens my eyes more to how serious this disorder is! I also remember one time in which due to her mood swings I had an emotional breakdown and I took myself to the hospital oh lord worst thing to do (according to her). She accused me of being crazy and said how i was too much to handle. I told her, like dude, Im going through a lot ( i knew not to dare say that part and actually the main reason of my emotional breakdown was the relationship because this would would be the death of me hearing her go off on me even more) that i just needed my gf to be there for me and support me and tell me that everything would be okay... .I did get it actually but it was a ugh! i guess!Now that i read you guys' stories i realize how i was always so minuscule in the picture when it came down to meeting my needs!  :'(  

I am sorry you went thru this. It su*ks! I know it does. When my ex broke up with me I went off. I am not this type of person but what she did to me made me go off in a way I've never done before. Just all the mind games. I love you / I don't . Just 2 days before my ex was telling me how much she loved me. Then one night sent me an email and said we were not compatible! An email!  :)idn't even have the decency to call me!  She told me after I went off on her that she couldn't be with someone who could NOT control their own feelings! Lol! Can you believe that. Projection at its best. All the things she said why she broke this off was just lies. Basically overturning what she had previously told me. She also told me she never loved me and didn't even k ow why she ever said it. So I do feel for you. I am very sorry you went thru this ... .like we all did. And you share my exs name too ! How ironic!

[klacey3]

Thank you all so very much!  you all have no idea how much reading your posts helps! Reading them is hurtful because it opens my eyes more to how serious this disorder is! I also remember one time in which due to her mood swings I had an emotional breakdown and I took myself to the hospital oh lord worst thing to do (according to her). She accused me of being crazy and said how i was too much to handle. I told her, like dude, Im going through a lot ( i knew not to dare say that part and actually the main reason of my emotional breakdown was the relationship because this would would be the death of me hearing her go off on me even more) that i just needed my gf to be there for me and support me and tell me that everything would be okay... .I did get it actually but it was a ugh! i guess!Now that i read you guys' stories i realize how i was always so minuscule in the picture when it came down to meeting my needs!  :'(   

Sorry to hear you are suffering so much with it all right now  of you want to discuss things in more detail you can PM me.

[MapleBob]

Sure, they experience love. They experience A LOT of love, in fact. But here's the catch ... .if I had to draw one line between my two BPD exes and what they have in common, it would come down to one simple conclusion: they are never satisfied for long with anything. They are incapable of slowing down, sitting down, shutting up, and maintaining/enjoying what they have in the moment.

To make a metaphor: they'll buy a new car. And they will LOVE that car for 6-12 months, but they will fill it up with their discarded burger wrappers and grocery bags and empty water bottles until they can't remember why they bought that car in the first place. They will want a new car, a bigger car, a cleaner car. They won't clean out their car, they won't take responsibility for the mess they've made, they won't take it to the shop to get it fixed or change the oil. It's the car's fault! And they resent that car, and they are the victim of that car. They somehow wound up with a lemon again.

Besides, at this point, getting a new car is so much easier, and it's all fresh and clean and they LOVE THAT NEW CAR SO MUCH.

[Confused108]

Well said Bob. And that's exactly what it is.

[klacey3]

Sure, they experience love. They experience A LOT of love, in fact. But here's the catch ... .if I had to draw one line between my two BPD exes and what they have in common, it would come down to one simple conclusion: they are never satisfied for long with anything. They are incapable of slowing down, sitting down, shutting up, and maintaining/enjoying what they have in the moment.

To make a metaphor: they'll buy a new car. And they will LOVE that car for 6-12 months, but they will fill it up with their discarded burger wrappers and grocery bags and empty water bottles until they can't remember why they bought that car in the first place. They will want a new car, a bigger car, a cleaner car. They won't clean out their car, they won't take responsibility for the mess they've made, they won't take it to the shop to get it fixed or change the oil. It's the car's fault! And they resent that car, and they are the victim of that car. They somehow wound up with a lemon again.

Besides, at this point, getting a new car is so much easier, and it's all fresh and clean and they LOVE THAT NEW CAR SO MUCH.

Hm that seems confusing. They feel alot of love but get bored quickly and discard them? That doesn't sound like love though. Does that mean they feel like they love but its just not deep feelings? Just a shallow fleeting feeling of love because it is all that is emotionally available to them?

[Lonely_Astro]

Hm that seems confusing. They feel alot of love but get bored quickly and discard them? That doesn't sound like love though. Does that mean they feel like they love but its just not deep feelings? Just a shallow fleeting feeling of love because it is all that is emotionally available to them?

Bob used a great metaphor.  I'll try to put it another way.  Can you remember back to when you were a kid?  I mean, when you used to play with GI Joes, Star Wars figures, or Barbie's.  You remember how your mom or dad would take you down the toy aisle, even though you had plenty of toys at home and you would see that one toy that you had to have.  I mean you would throw a fit in the aisle to get it had to have it.  So, your parents got it for you.

You took it home, opened it up, and started playing with it.  You loved that new toy.  It was the most awesome figure in your collection.  It went everywhere with you: school, the bathtub, outside to play.  You and that toy were inseparable.  You played with it everyday, but you were a kid and didn't take care of it.  The arm broke off.  Or the paint rubbed off, or something else happened.  Did you blame yourself for how you handled your toy?  No.  It was the toys fault it broke.  You couldn't fix it (for the purpose of this metaphor, lets pretend mom/dad couldn't either), so you resented how the toy broke.  The next time you were at the store with mom, you go back to the toy aisle.  The process started all over again with a new toy. 

Welcome to the life of a BPD, where you're the toy in the package.  They love you right up until they don't.  Its a simple concept, with a lot of heartache mixed in (for both of you).

[MapleBob]

Hm that seems confusing. They feel alot of love but get bored quickly and discard them? That doesn't sound like love though. Does that mean they feel like they love but its just not deep feelings? Just a shallow fleeting feeling of love because it is all that is emotionally available to them?

That's where we have to start getting into defining "love", and what it really means to "love" someone. I'm saying that they certainly feel the emotion - and intensely! - but they often sabotage or just aren't capable of loving anyone in a peaceful, long-term, "relationship" kind of way. Long-term love has problems, and it takes work, and you have to build bridges ... .they aren't builders. They'd never be satisfied with a bridge they built, and so they're never satisfied in a relationship PERIOD.

[GreenEyedMonster]

Sure, they experience love. They experience A LOT of love, in fact. But here's the catch ... .if I had to draw one line between my two BPD exes and what they have in common, it would come down to one simple conclusion: they are never satisfied for long with anything. They are incapable of slowing down, sitting down, shutting up, and maintaining/enjoying what they have in the moment.

To make a metaphor: they'll buy a new car. And they will LOVE that car for 6-12 months, but they will fill it up with their discarded burger wrappers and grocery bags and empty water bottles until they can't remember why they bought that car in the first place. They will want a new car, a bigger car, a cleaner car. They won't clean out their car, they won't take responsibility for the mess they've made, they won't take it to the shop to get it fixed or change the oil. It's the car's fault! And they resent that car, and they are the victim of that car. They somehow wound up with a lemon again.

Besides, at this point, getting a new car is so much easier, and it's all fresh and clean and they LOVE THAT NEW CAR SO MUCH.

Some people think that this results from too much dopamine (the chemical that gives you "drive" to pursue) and too little serotonin (the chemical that gives you contentment).  So it's physiological in nature, a chemical imbalance.  

New = high and excitement.  Enduring love is more like what you feel when you know your car is high quality and will start in the morning and get you to work.  Meh.

[Lonely_Astro]

That's where we have to start getting into defining "love", and what it really means to "love" someone. I'm saying that they certainly feel the emotion - and intensely! - but they often sabotage or just aren't capable of loving anyone in a peaceful, long-term, "relationship" kind of way. Long-term love has problems, and it takes work, and you have to build bridges ... .they aren't builders. They'd never be satisfied with a bridge they built, and so they're never satisfied in a relationship PERIOD.

I agree with you, they feel love more intense than we can ever imagine.  It's so intense, in fact, that it can't possibly be sustained long term.  Not by anyone, ever.

And you are 100% correct that they are never satisfied, ever.  Not just in r/s, but also with anything.  Or, at least, mine wasn't every happy and content with anything.  Ever, really.  There was always something to complain about.  Of course, if I complained about something J would see this as me "constantly bit*hing and never happy with anything".  Oh, the irony.

[MapleBob]

That's where we have to start getting into defining "love", and what it really means to "love" someone. I'm saying that they certainly feel the emotion - and intensely! - but they often sabotage or just aren't capable of loving anyone in a peaceful, long-term, "relationship" kind of way. Long-term love has problems, and it takes work, and you have to build bridges ... .they aren't builders. They'd never be satisfied with a bridge they built, and so they're never satisfied in a relationship PERIOD.

I agree with you, they feel love more intense than we can ever imagine.  It's so intense, in fact, that it can't possibly be sustained long term.  Not by anyone, ever.

And you are 100% correct that they are never satisfied, ever.  Not just in r/s, but also with anything.  Or, at least, mine wasn't every happy and content with anything.  Ever, really.  There was always something to complain about.  Of course, if I complained about something J would see this as me "constantly bit*hing and never happy with anything".  Oh, the irony.

Yes! Projection. With mine it was me not "trying hard enough", when she wasn't trying at pretty much anything.