It's all off so but why do I keep engaging. Any advice please?

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

I finally called it off with my ex. I’m hurting, but there are moments when I can see glimpses of a better future and  I'm holding on to those for dear life. Tiny glimpses because I’m pretty much rock bottom. I’m very isolated. But there has to be a better life for me out there so although I’m scared I want to try.

My problem now is I still haven’t cut the ties. I’m still reading and responding to his texts. Not all of them, for example he sent me a dozen bizarre texts last night. Letters to various people I know telling them what pieces of s... t they are. He doesn’t believe it was my decision to end things and thinks others have influenced me. I ignored the messages as I suspect he was drunk. This morning he asked me not to send the letters as he woke to realise they weren’t good.

The trouble is I allowed the discussion to continue and got pulled back into drama which has ended with me distraught again. He lured me in by asking about my son who has a minor health problem. It quickly switched to ‘his’ current health problems (there’s always several) and me not being there to help him.

Cut a long story short it went on and on with him trying to guilt me for not being there, e.g. he was all by himself, shivering, in pain, couldn’t sleep, felt so lonely, etc.  I empathised with his problems, but asked him to try to reflect on why I hadn’t been there. That he couldn’t expect people to stay around if he treats them badly and that his needs cannot continue to come before my own. I also said that I don’t feel guilty for not being there, but I did feel sad.

He ignored all of this, but said I am a selfish person who doesn't give a s... t about him. Feeling frustrated and giving up I replied that maybe it was because he didn’t give a s—t about me, and asked him why was he still talking to me if he felt this way? His response “these are only sms. Just used to it I guess”.

This doesn't sound bad, but it made me feel terrible and I feel like crying. It feels dismissive, like he’s playing with my emotions as he always does. Draws me in, drops me on my head. I think he enjoys this. I need to figure out why I’m still playing his game. It's so hard to let go. Has anyone else been here?

[Larmoyant]

I finally called it off with my ex. I’m hurting, but there are moments when I can see glimpses of a better future and  I'm holding on to those for dear life. Tiny glimpses because I’m pretty much rock bottom. I’m very isolated. But there has to be a better life for me out there so although I’m scared I want to try.

My problem now is I still haven’t cut the ties. I’m still reading and responding to his texts. Not all of them, for example he sent me a dozen bizarre texts last night. Letters to various people I know telling them what pieces of s... t they are. He doesn’t believe it was my decision to end things and thinks others have influenced me. I ignored the messages as I suspect he was drunk. This morning he asked me not to send the letters as he woke to realise they weren’t good.

The trouble is I allowed the discussion to continue and got pulled back into drama which has ended with me distraught again. He lured me in by asking about my son who has a minor health problem. It quickly switched to ‘his’ current health problems (there’s always several) and me not being there to help him.

Cut a long story short it went on and on with him trying to guilt me for not being there, e.g. he was all by himself, shivering, in pain, couldn’t sleep, felt so lonely, etc.  I empathised with his problems, but asked him to try to reflect on why I hadn’t been there. That he couldn’t expect people to stay around if he treats them badly and that his needs cannot continue to come before my own. I also said that I don’t feel guilty for not being there, but I did feel sad.

He ignored all of this, but said I am a selfish person who doesn't give a s... t about him. Feeling frustrated and giving up I replied that maybe it was because he didn’t give a s—t about me, and asked him why was he still talking to me if he felt this way? His response “these are only sms. Just used to it I guess”.

This doesn't sound bad, but it made me feel terrible and I feel like crying. It feels dismissive, like he’s playing with my emotions as he always does. Draws me in, drops me on my head. I think he enjoys this. I need to figure out why I’m still playing his game. It's so hard to let go. Has anyone else been here?

[once removed]

hi larmoyant 

im sorry to hear youre hurting  .

and asked him why was he still talking to me if he felt this way? His response “these are only sms. Just used to it I guess”.

my immediate thought was it is dismissive; not so dismissive of you personally, but dismissive of your question. deflecting. he didnt have an answer. the kind of thing one might say when in that position and feeling defensive.

i know lots of people who, even in the rare case they ask, if i confide in them, they turn the conversation to themselves. its incredibly invalidating, it is self centered, and it exhausts me. you engaged, he turned it to himself, you entertained him turning it to himself and he turned it around to you. i recommend not engaging on the serious stuff. be boring, keep it light, dont engage. he talks about himself, respond with little more than "that sucks". he elaborates, but sorry, x y or z requires your attention.

i hope your son feels much better soon

[Larmoyant]

Thanks once removed. This is really useful. Makes a lot of sense and allows me to put it in perspective. When I reread the whole thread I realised he was trying to deflect quite often. I’m feeling so fragile right now and maybe I overreacted emotionally. He’s just sent me another text calling me a liar! I’ve ignored it and now another obscure one asking me if something or other I said a few weeks ago came from one of my friends! I have no idea what he’s thinking or where his mind has taken him so I’m not going to answer. Thank you for the advice and asking after my son. I'm feeling so guilty about what my kids have been through with all this, but that's another story! 

[Lonely_Astro]

I finally called it off with my ex. I’m hurting, but there are moments when I can see glimpses of a better future and  I'm holding on to those for dear life. Tiny glimpses because I’m pretty much rock bottom. I’m very isolated. But there has to be a better life for me out there so although I’m scared I want to try.

My problem now is I still haven’t cut the ties. I’m still reading and responding to his texts. Not all of them, for example he sent me a dozen bizarre texts last night. Letters to various people I know telling them what pieces of s... t they are. He doesn’t believe it was my decision to end things and thinks others have influenced me. I ignored the messages as I suspect he was drunk. This morning he asked me not to send the letters as he woke to realise they weren’t good.

The trouble is I allowed the discussion to continue and got pulled back into drama which has ended with me distraught again. He lured me in by asking about my son who has a minor health problem. It quickly switched to ‘his’ current health problems (there’s always several) and me not being there to help him.

Cut a long story short it went on and on with him trying to guilt me for not being there, e.g. he was all by himself, shivering, in pain, couldn’t sleep, felt so lonely, etc.  I empathised with his problems, but asked him to try to reflect on why I hadn’t been there. That he couldn’t expect people to stay around if he treats them badly and that his needs cannot continue to come before my own. I also said that I don’t feel guilty for not being there, but I did feel sad.

He ignored all of this, but said I am a selfish person who doesn't give a s... t about him. Feeling frustrated and giving up I replied that maybe it was because he didn’t give a s—t about me, and asked him why was he still talking to me if he felt this way? His response “these are only sms. Just used to it I guess”.

This doesn't sound bad, but it made me feel terrible and I feel like crying. It feels dismissive, like he’s playing with my emotions as he always does. Draws me in, drops me on my head. I think he enjoys this. I need to figure out why I’m still playing his game. It's so hard to let go. Has anyone else been here?

Yes, I have been and am currently 'here' with you.  After a year of ups and downs with my ex, J, I left after being left in limbo for a couple of months, reassured she wanted to work and stay committed to our r/s, and then finding out she had been on a couple of dates with a guy, I ended the r/s.  I didn't want to, but I had to.  That was a hardline boundary for me and left me with no choice.  She is diagnosed, medicated, and (allegedly) going to DBT (started in mid-sept).

We were silent for a couple of weeks starting Jan 1.  Jan 13, I ran into her at a coffee shop I frequent.  We started talking and that led to us talking for this past week.  Superficial at first and then it got personal.  J, like yours, has been very invalidating and insensitive toward me.  She would ask me how I was feeling and when I (honestly) answered, she would ST me.  She has said that she "felt better even though she didn't want to because of what she had done to me over the past year but couldn't dwell on it" and "why didn't I trust you enough to be honest with you?" and "why do I always run people off?  I ran M (her ex husband) and you off.  Why?" and "I'm sorry, I just don't feel like you do" and so on.  Its all been confusing for me.  Some moments I see the loving J I 'knew", other moments I see a total BPD that I've never seen before.  She even went as far as saying she felt like 'sometimes' she felt that I was using her this entire year, even though the opposite is true (in fact, she was using me).

So why did I start talking to her again at the coffee shop?  Because I miss her.  I wanted to talk to her again.  All it served to do was make me hurt more.  She told me how much she missed me.  How much she missed us.  She asked about me.  She also told me she had been on a couple of dates with someone.  She had recommended that I read a book about a guy who dumped his gf (the love of his life, as he claimed) after he left therapy because it was all bs, went on a year long - next level porn sex orgy fest, only to discover he was still empty inside, retreated and found his Zen, reconnected with his ex, and married her after he decided that monogamy was the true path to sexual freedom, and she left a dozen roses on her desk in a prominent location where I would see them after hours when I had to return to work for a conference call.  All of which was done, in my opinion to, in some way to hurt me because I had hurt her for leaving.

My point is, that all this isn't about us.  Everything in their lives revolves around them.  Could I have tucked away a lot of stuff with J?  Sure.  But what kind of life is walking on eggshells?  What kind of life is looking over your shoulder all the time and wondering who else is in the the shadows?  But more importantly, why do we want to be with them, even after they do this vile and inhumane stuff to us?  Why do we feel like its our duty, our responsibility to see them get better, at the cost of ourselves?  Thats how I felt with J, anyway.  I spent countless hours reassuring her, talking to her, offering guidance when she asked for it... .all sowing the seeds (I thought, anyway) for our success.  Now, someone else has the potential to reap that reward.  Will they be successful?  In the moment of me writing this, I hope not.  Not because I'm being a d-bag, but because I put in all the work for them.  They should have to earn it, just like I thought I was doing.  But, alas.  I am a bit angry right now, so please forgive me.

Being abused, dismissed, and discarded by our exes hurts.  And for whatever reason, (myself included) a lot of us would probably go back to our exes and try again with the hope it would be different this time.  Truth is, it wouldn't be.

Be kind to yourself, you've been battered by the waves for a long time.  Do something good for yourself and your kids this weekend and leave the ex be.  You'll be better off in the long run.  There will be setbacks, yes, but stay the course.  I offer this advice to your as well as to myself.  Once again, be kind to yourself.  You deserve it.

[Larmoyant]

Lonely_Astro, I fell asleep for an hour or so and woke up feeling alone, dejected and demoralised. I immediately came on here to read because it’s helping and saw your response. Thank you because it has helped me to stay on track. I’ll sit with all this pain, it waxes and wanes, until it passes.

I keep wondering why he keeps contacting me, despite saying things like "all the best", "have a great life", "this will be the last you will hear from me", etc (I'm guilty of this too  ) and I think it's so he can ‘get a fix’ then move on with whatever he’s doing. I’m trying not to think about what he’s doing too much, but it’s very difficult, dating sites keep popping in my head. He tortured me with those often enough.

As you say what kind of life is it with them anyway. Someone said on another thread that they knew it would end eventually and that his ex only came back because she hadn’t found a suitable replacement yet. That’s how I feel.

I know you worry about your ex moving on and being happy with someone else, but I’m not so sure she will. Can they ever really be happy? They carry their torment around with them and I think offload it onto anyone they are with. Ok at first maybe, but eventually. The girlfriend before me ended their relationship via email warning him that if he ever came near her she’d call the police, and his employer. She also recommended he see a psychiatrist as he is insane! She only tolerated it for 3 months. Mine is coming up the two-year mark. Three years and there probably wouldn’t be anything left of me! I feel sorry for the next person!

As for being angry, you have every right. What she has put you through is appalling, same with mine. I like it when I feel angry it helps me stay away and not fall for his tricks. Wish I could keep hold of it for a while.

I’m a little afraid that if he starts making promises again I’ll listen and allow myself to be pulled back in, but I just can’t allow it anymore. I agree it wouldn’t be any different this time.

Be good to yourself too. Leave her to her cruel games and pity the next person who crosses her path or who has crossed her path. By the time she’s done with him you’ll be well and truly out of it much happier with someone who deserves you.

[Moselle]

Larmoyant,

Hang in there. It'll get better and easier over time.

pwBPD are well versed in the arts of engagement. They know our triggers they know our sympathies.

What I like about your post is that you acknowledge your mistake. You allowed the re-engagement. That's OK, we all make mistakes, all the time. What's your plan for next time?

I like to use a non violent communication technique based on Action, Feel, Like, Need

What you are doing/saying... .

Is making me Feel sad/angry/upset... .

I would Like you to speak respectfully/stop sending me abusive letters or

I will Need to end the conversation/ hang up the phone/take some time out etc.

In this way we point out the issue, own our feelings and own the action to fix it. It's very hard for them to manipulate around this. They often move to the next manipulation.

All the best.

Moselle