BPD - Gets better w/age, Gets worse w/age or Gets better then gets worse?

[Depression = 72% of members]

Sort of a newbie here... .Joined a long while ago but haven't visited in awhile. I came across a topic called "Age:  Do the symptoms of BPD improve/worsen with age?" here on the forum it was created/posted in 2009 but hasn't been posted in since a year ago. So I thought instead of adding to it I would create another post. Hope that is okay with the admins, mods and members here. Anyways... .

I've watched numerous clips on you tube, read many books, read many articles online and in magazines, talked to ppl (even one professional) offline and read ppls view points on various sites. A fair share says BPD goes away completely or gets significantly better with time and goes away by time someone is in their 30s or early 40s. A handful sites say BPD is bad from beginning then gets better but then comes back with a vengeance once someone hits their 50s. And maybe one or two says it never gets better. With more time passing I am tending to believe that it really depends on each person who has BPD and you cant really group everyone into one group or box like some professionals say. After everything I've read, experienced and know... .I think that if someone who has BPD seeks help and works on themselves and wants to change then the outcome or outlook is better for those individuals. However if the individual doesn't seek help refuses to and doesn't do anything by oneself to improve then they will get worse with time. My friend and my boyfriends mother are prime examples for lack of better words. My friend is now in their early 30s but was diagnosed at a very early age... .they sought help, educated theirself on BPD and has improved significantly. This isn't to say they still don't have some really bad moments from time to time but they are not on a regular nor everyday basis. My boyfriends mother on the other hand who is 52 yrs old has only gotten worse with time esp this last 2 and a half yrs. She was apart of a program, got court ordered to take part in stuff to improve how she has been but since she refused to do anything none of the judge ordered stuff helped and nothing in the semi past helped... .the program the judge had her do or rather place be apart of had to graduate her from things because things were becoming more and more one sided and they didn't want to waste any more time on someone who wasn't doing her part. They want to help someone who wanted help and did their part. Its a very long story about her... .cant take her anywhere usually without her going into a rage, being angry, rude, ordering ppl around, yelling, being childish n more over things as little as you can get 1 bottle of soda not 6 (cuz cant afford 6 and she is diabetic)... .she is very nosy crosses boundaries has parentified her son, makes someone help shower her even though she is capable of it and has done so in past, constantly begs for things like money soda cigars etc (even though she has some money from disability after bills paid not much but still),gets jealous, black n white thinking, ppl either all good or all bad, says mean things and is and meets 8 of the 9 criteria for BPD and primary doctor agrees she is BPD... .but anyways... .

Just wondering what everyone else's view points are on subject (BPD gets better gets worse... .) and experience with BPD is rather you are the one with BPD, you are a sibling of one with BPD, a child of someone with BPD, etc. Your view points too and advice for everyone etc. I know this forum has new ppl joining all the time as well as some awesome long time members so i hope all will post thoughts. Thanks for listing to me ramble on and stuff... .hugs.

[Rock Chick]

Sort of a newbie here... .Joined a long while ago but haven't visited in awhile. I came across a topic called "Age:  Do the symptoms of BPD improve/worsen with age?" here on the forum it was created/posted in 2009 but hasn't been posted in since a year ago. So I thought instead of adding to it I would create another post. Hope that is okay with the admins, mods and members here. Anyways... .

I've watched numerous clips on you tube, read many books, read many articles online and in magazines, talked to ppl (even one professional) offline and read ppls view points on various sites. A fair share says BPD goes away completely or gets significantly better with time and goes away by time someone is in their 30s or early 40s. A handful sites say BPD is bad from beginning then gets better but then comes back with a vengeance once someone hits their 50s. And maybe one or two says it never gets better. With more time passing I am tending to believe that it really depends on each person who has BPD and you cant really group everyone into one group or box like some professionals say. After everything I've read, experienced and know... .I think that if someone who has BPD seeks help and works on themselves and wants to change then the outcome or outlook is better for those individuals. However if the individual doesn't seek help refuses to and doesn't do anything by oneself to improve then they will get worse with time. My friend and my boyfriends mother are prime examples for lack of better words. My friend is now in their early 30s but was diagnosed at a very early age... .they sought help, educated theirself on BPD and has improved significantly. This isn't to say they still don't have some really bad moments from time to time but they are not on a regular nor everyday basis. My boyfriends mother on the other hand who is 52 yrs old has only gotten worse with time esp this last 2 and a half yrs. She was apart of a program, got court ordered to take part in stuff to improve how she has been but since she refused to do anything none of the judge ordered stuff helped and nothing in the semi past helped... .the program the judge had her do or rather place be apart of had to graduate her from things because things were becoming more and more one sided and they didn't want to waste any more time on someone who wasn't doing her part. They want to help someone who wanted help and did their part. Its a very long story about her... .cant take her anywhere usually without her going into a rage, being angry, rude, ordering ppl around, yelling, being childish n more over things as little as you can get 1 bottle of soda not 6 (cuz cant afford 6 and she is diabetic)... .she is very nosy crosses boundaries has parentified her son, makes someone help shower her even though she is capable of it and has done so in past, constantly begs for things like money soda cigars etc (even though she has some money from disability after bills paid not much but still),gets jealous, black n white thinking, ppl either all good or all bad, says mean things and is and meets 8 of the 9 criteria for BPD and primary doctor agrees she is BPD... .but anyways... .

Just wondering what everyone else's view points are on subject (BPD gets better gets worse... .) and experience with BPD is rather you are the one with BPD, you are a sibling of one with BPD, a child of someone with BPD, etc. Your view points too and advice for everyone etc. I know this forum has new ppl joining all the time as well as some awesome long time members so i hope all will post thoughts. Thanks for listing to me ramble on and stuff... .hugs.

[Kwamina]

Hi Rock Chick

Thanks for making your first post!

Sort of a newbie here... .Joined a long while ago but haven't visited in awhile. I came across a topic called "Age:  :)o the symptoms of BPD improve/worsen with age?" here on the forum it was created/posted in 2009 but hasn't been posted in since a year ago. So I thought instead of adding to it I would create another post. Hope that is okay with the admins, mods and members here. Anyways... .

It is ok, we love new posts

This is a very interesting topic. I think the way BPD develops depends on several variables such as whether the person acknowledges he/she has a problem or not, whether the person is being treated for the BPD and perhaps more importantly whether the person is committed to that treatment, the stressors the person is dealing with in their daily life and also the age. There undoubtedly also is a genetic component to it all.

My own uBPD mother seemed to 'mellow out" as she got older but then seemingly out of nowhere she was spinning out of control again. An important aspect of her problematic behavior, is that she doesn't acknowledge she has a problem and therefor does not seek help. Yet still with age she did "mellow out" but she still does not deal with stress well which can trigger her BPD behaviors in full force. One of her biggest triggers is my uBPD older sister whom my mother treated as the golden child. My sister has a long history of expressing suicidal thoughts and threatening to kill herself, yet never has made any actual suicide attempt. Still, hearing these things is very unpleasant and one of the things that really triggered my mother just as she had been mellowing out because she "doesn't want to lose her".

Another influencing factor is how we respond to and deal with our BPD loved ones. As I've learned about BPD and all the tools and resources, I've quite radically changed my game plan and this also effects the dynamics of the relationship I have with her.

My mother is in her seventies now. She has mellowed out with age, yet just beneath the surface the BPD is still there and just as strong as ever. Without the presence of stressors she'll mostly be quite stable, yet even little things can be perceived by her as major stressors. So it's a fragile stability. Since she does not acknowledge her problems and hasn't done the work to manage them, I cannot say she really has made any significant progress. The biggest difference is that I am an adult now, no longer live with her and have learned about BPD and the various tools and resources. I have changed, she has not.

[busybee1116]

My uBPDm is in her 70s. She really "came out of the BPD closet" in her late 50s/early 60s. She played the role of dutiful housewife and mother when I was growing up and when my uNPDf retired and us kids were out of the house, she fell apart not having any identity beyond housewife/mother. It's gotten much worse since. She started to burn bridges then, and the pace of her relationship destruction has just increased. They moved about 20 years ago after she created all sorts of havoc in my hometown (of course, everyone else's fault); then moved 16 years later (again, everyone else is awful, time to leave) and 18 months into new place, she was talking about moving again to get away from mean people. However... .I would say she has mellowed in other ways, partly because my relationship with her has changed (because I changed--with boundaries, better communication, not triangulating with her/my father, wise-minding) and although I doubt she'd call it a mistake on her part, she seems to occasionally see that picking up and moving isn't always the best solution to solving problems.

I work in healthcare and have several clients with dBPD (and many I suspect or at least have traits). Some have done better with age, some have not. I think it's totally individual, really.  Some of my worst cases though have been in their 80s/90s when they become dependent on family for assistance with health issues/driving/bathing/dressing.

[enlighten me]

I have read a number of things where BPD has gone into remission post menopause or at least mellowed a lot. I have read others that say that when fitted with a coil the symptoms have mellowed. This to me makes sense as there seems to be a link in my opinion between hormones and some BPD behaviour.

That said its not always the case. Whether there is a link with hormones and even though they have diminished with age the pwBPD is just set in their ways so it doesn't seem to change a thing or whether there is no link and all age does is let them cope better with their emotions I don't know.

It would be interesting to now if age has an effect and have some scientific basis to it.

[maddnessreturns]

My mom hasn't changed. She is still just as bad. I have no idea how she was before I was born. She got worse with age in my opinion and I noticed when I was hitting puberty and teenager it was really bad. Interesting topic. I'm curious to see other peoples replies. 

[cleotokos]

I thought my uBPDmom had gotten better with age (she's 67) as she hasn't ranted at me for many years and I haven't seen her do it to anyone else (I made it known years ago that if she did that, she and I would not be having any type of relationship). But I recently found out she's been contacting my dad to scream at him about things that happened over 30 years ago. This is a man she has NO contact with whatsoever, but she knows she can "get away" with screaming at him and using him as a punching bag. I was sickened and disgusted to find this out, and have been really sad about it. She's probably been stressed out lately (her uNPD partner passed away a year ago and my drug addicted brother has been staying with her off and on) so perhaps she did get better with age, but stress has brought out the BPD.

I have to wonder if this improvement with age correlates to BPD's caring for children? I think the experience of being a parent was just an awful and horrifically stressful time for my mother. Once we were both out of the house she seemed to make a lot of improvements.

[Please help]

I often wondered about this myself. I know they usually die early due to poor lifestyle choices drugs, stress, etc. i always thought is must be so stressful to be BPD. They simply do not know how to achieve peace. Even when you create a healthy environment for them, their need for chaos will win out and they will leave.

I think personalities certainly mellow with age. A BPD will certainly change with age as well. They may get calmer but more manipulative and meaner. Overall, the personality disorder stays but changes like we all do.

If you are asking this because you have a BPD in your life and hope that years down the road things will be great, you are being naive. Life is too short. I personally chose being alone over insanity. It hurts every day but at least I am functioning and happy.

[flourdust]

From the various stories and articles I read, I get the impression that BPD overlaps somewhat with general adolescent girl (and boy?) personality traits. These immature, hormone-driven behaviors tend to subside in the mid to late 20s in both men and women. A teenage girl who has some borderline traits, combined with adolescent hormones and the still-developing impulse control centers of the brain, can manifest as full-blown BPD. This probably accounts for a lot of the improvement reported in the literature.

Unfortunately, there are a lot of cases of people who have personality disorders as chronic conditions. They can be exacerbated by factors like stress and trauma or controlled by treatment, but they are always there and they don't go away with maturation.

I think there's a case to be made for a new classification of Teenage Girl Personality Disorder.   

[ijustwantpeace]

All I know is that I get worse the more time I spend around my BPD mother, and better while I am away.  Now that I know she has BPD I am hopeful that I will able to successfully tune her out in the future.

For me it has turned worse the older she and her brother have gotten.  They are reaping the fruits of a lifetime of rotten behavior as they get older.  No one wants to be around them at all.

I don't see any reason it would improve as they are very diligent in practicing their crazy making.  You know what they say practice makes perfect.  If they had applied all their crazy making energy to another pursuit they could have been Olympic athletes or billionaires in charge of a multi-national corporation.  If space ships ran on crazy it would be possible for them to travel at the speed of light.  You get the idea.

[Creativum]

I often wondered about this myself. I know they usually die early due to poor lifestyle choices drugs, stress, etc. i always thought is must be so stressful to be BPD. They simply do not know how to achieve peace. Even when you create a healthy environment for them, their need for chaos will win out and they will leave.

This.  I think the behaviors become more "age appropriate."  My ex is in his late 20's, so it's still not unheard of for him to go party every night and do drugs, have random sex, and get drunk.  He can just pass as a "still too young to know better" party boy -- ESPECIALLY in this stupid self-destructive culture we now have where "30 is the new 20" ... . But my mother finds comfort in binge eating, overspending, selective bible-beating, and pill popping -- things which no one can see unless they live with her.  Needless to say, she's hideously obese, smokes like a chimney, and you'd guess her physical age to be closer to 80 than her actual age (57).  Her COPD and heart problems from overeating will kill her -- as will her undiagnosed and untreated diabetes.  A perfect sh**storm.

I honestly don't think anyone with BPD makes it to old age, or at least it's very rare.  The methods of soothing change and replace each other, but I don't think there's any "mellowing out" or less self-harming behavior ... .They'll kill themselves one way or another.

[Rock Chick]

But my mother finds comfort in binge eating, overspending, selective bible-beating, and pill popping -- things which no one can see unless they live with her.  Needless to say, she's hideously obese, smokes like a chimney, and you'd guess her physical age to be closer to 80 than her actual age (57).  Her COPD and heart problems from overeating will kill her -- as will her undiagnosed and untreated diabetes.  A perfect sh**storm.

The BPD in my life that made me seek out this forum also looks closer to late 70s but is actually only 52. This is from her smoking like crazy and her past history with drugs and alcohol for the most part i think. Its amazing what smoking can not only do to your health, health issues can cause but what does to your physical appearance. Did yours ever beg for money, order u to give her money etc for cigars or whatever she smoked/smokes? And if you deny her she reacts very negatively? Or did she have enough money personally to support her habit? If she did beg etc for stuff how did you deal or do deal? I dont think my BPD has copd but i think its possible she could have problems with heart and other stuff from her choices, smoking etc. She also has diabetes etc. But anyways thanks for replying and for listening to me ramble on hahaha. P.S. if too personal feel free not to answer... .im not good with wording things and im a curious type .

[Creativum]

But my mother finds comfort in binge eating, overspending, selective bible-beating, and pill popping -- things which no one can see unless they live with her.  Needless to say, she's hideously obese, smokes like a chimney, and you'd guess her physical age to be closer to 80 than her actual age (57).  Her COPD and heart problems from overeating will kill her -- as will her undiagnosed and untreated diabetes.  A perfect sh**storm.

The BPD in my life that made me seek out this forum also looks closer to late 70s but is actually only 52. This is from her smoking like crazy and her past history with drugs and alcohol for the most part i think. Its amazing what smoking can not only do to your health, health issues can cause but what does to your physical appearance. Did yours ever beg for money, order u to give her money etc for cigars or whatever she smoked/smokes? And if you deny her she reacts very negatively? Or did she have enough money personally to support her habit? If she did beg etc for stuff how did you deal or do deal? I dont think my BPD has copd but i think its possible she could have problems with heart and other stuff from her choices, smoking etc. She also has diabetes etc. But anyways thanks for replying and for listening to me ramble on hahaha. P.S. if too personal feel free not to answer... .im not good with wording things and im a curious type .

My mom's a nurse with 30 years experience (caregiving professions seem to draw people with BPD), so she has enough money to support her habits.  And her access to doctors with prescription pads keeps her well-stocked with lots of pain meds.  She also steals them from her partner, and she stole my Ativan once (I never took any of them).  

Problem is that she supports her habits before she plans for her retirement or anything else.  She makes probably $75,000/year and can barely make her mortgage payment, but she'll always buy a new car.  And instead of investing in the house and keeping it in good repair, she lives in a state of denial about the things that need to be done until a disaster happens, and then she'll blame someone else for it.  It's always been this way.  Her "friends" earn the same as she does, most were also single mothers of two children, and yet they always had enough to take care of their kids' needs, their own needs, and save some.  My mom?  Nah.  She acted like she was mother of the year, but when push came to shove, she'd flip out about having to give me $1.25 for lunch money or having to pay $75 for my AP exam in high school (I didn't get to take that exam btw -- she really didn't have the money).  Oh yeah, I found out why she wouldn't give me or my brother our social security cards:  She opened credit cards in our name to support her narcissistic partner.  Fortunately, she paid them, and I simply had them magically closed once the balances were paid off.  (It was either that or deal with having to put my own mother in prison for fraud... .) ... .Now any credit application in my name requires a physical signature and ID.  Oh yeah, when I went overseas for my senior year in high school?  First, she wouldn't let me go until she had found a replacement, at which point I was burdensome enough for her to let me "abandon" her, since she had a new object choice (a girlfriend - I had always been forced to be her support person until then).  Second, my dad was sending her child support every week as required by the court, but the agreement was that she would send it to me every month.  You think she did that?  No.  She spent it on her wretched girlfriend.  (Oh, she also contributed nothing toward that year -- that was my dad's parents, as always.)

The themes of my mother's life are nostalgia and denial.  :)enial that she herself was horribly abused by her parents and the church, denial that something has broken and needs to be replaced, denial that her children want nothing to do with her, and nostalgia about how great things "used to be" ... .To hear her talk about my childhood (and her own), I feel like I should introduce myself to her one day, because obviously we didn't experience the same reality.  I'm going a bit off topic... .As a nurse and pwBPD, she also knows better than anyone else what her issues are.  So, of course, she doesn't have diabetes or COPD.  She has "issues with certain foods" and "asthma" ... .No, she has diabetes and chronic bronchitis with emphysema.  Again:  :)enial.  She'll be dead in a few years, though, so I'm trying not to sweat it.  Such a terrible thing to say about one's own mother, I guess, but it will be a blessing when she's finally gone.