Spouse w/ Severe Depression and Anxiety; BPD Not Diagnosed

[Woof]

All -

First off, let me tell you what a relief it is to find fellow travelers. 

My wife of 20+ years has been diagnosed with severe depression and anxiety, two diagnoses that she readily accepts and aggressively treats with therapy and medicine.  She has been on medicine her whole adult life and goes in and out of therapy.  She had a tough summer/fall and is currently stepping down from a PHP program and doing regular therapy.  The chief complaints we have with historically articulated with one another can largely be summarized as she doesn't think I provide enough warmth and empathy and I find her lack of control over her emotions difficult to navigate.  We have three kids, all teenagers. 

While I have accepted the depression/anxiety diagnoses and more or less figured out a way to live with it, I've always had the feeling that there must be more to the story.  Our relationship and her relationship with close friends, family and our kids have always been highly volatile.  It started when we were first married.  She exploded at something innocuous I said and threw something at me.  It continued and grew more challenging.  She routinely blew up and various innocent statements, and when she found the substance of her complaints didn't hold up, she'd blame it on my tone or body language.  I must chose words very, very carefully and even that might not save us from her anger.  Disagreeing with her in any way shape or form draws anger and a label that I'm being dismissive.  She can be highly controlling, constantly giving directions, but if you don't follow directions, she will get angry.  Spending has always been an enormous issue.  My children actually remark when there is a family dinner that she doesn't storm away from.  She solicits advice from different friends based upon who is willing to give her the advice she is looking for, often ignoring others for weeks at a time.  One friend described being thrown out of our house for openly commenting on the volatility they experience and then my wife called back 30 minutes later to apologize.  Close friends get it.  Other friends think she is the sweetest thing to walk the planet (and she can be).  I should add that this behavior has been a constant in our marriage... .in and out of depressive cycles.

This fall, things deteriorated.  She demanded a divorce at times but would forget that and then ask for a separation.  When we settled on a separation after months of strife in the house to provide space and buffer from which to pursue more therapy.  She proceeded to belittled me for not finding somewhere to live quickly enough, and then once I found a place, changed her mind, telling me that I shouldn't move out and that I just needed therapy.  For a variety of reasons, I finally said enough is enough and moved out, an act for which she now blames me and uses as a rationale for getting a divorce.  We're now each in our own therapy programs and trying to co-parent with a goal of coming back to marital therapy.  In the mean time, I've been publicly called out by my wife as a narcissist, lier, cheat and gay.  She suggested to her therapist that I raped her.  I've been diagnosed by her as being severely depressed, bi-polar and an emotional anorexic, each of these diagnoses having been shared with friends and family.  It has been awful.  Thanks, though, to my therapist, I have not responded or reacted negatively (although that often invites more rage).  My goal has been to let her vent and hopefully see a return to center that will allow us to begin more productive therapy.  Unfortunately, though, the rage has continued pretty much unabated for three months. 

A family member of my wife tipped me off on BPD and I began to read.  Other than the self-harm, it all seemed to a spot-on fit.  In a calmer moment for us this fall, I inquired of my wife as to whether she and her therapy team had ever looked at it.  The conversation went reasonably well and it encouraged me to reach out to our family therapist to ask them to give it some thought.  A day or two later, my wife reacted with rage over my "diagnosis" and has since then called me out repeatedly for daring to suggest a diagnosis. I don't know whether she has been diagnosed as BPD but doubt it.  Herein is the problem.  My wife is a pro at therapy.  She can talk with the best of them and provide advice to others that I suspect rivals a trained professional.  I don't think her therapists have any idea that there is another side to her, and given the character assassination I have been subject to, I suspect wouldn't hear anything to the contrary to me. 

I have several friends and family members who can provide first hand accounts of the type of behavior that supports looking into BPD.  Also, because my wife loves e-mail and text, I have piles of horrendous and volatile written communications.  I've often thought of bundling the whole mess up and sending it to her therapist (and inviting friends and family to do the same) but I don't want to be perceived as the bitter soon-to-be ex-spouse.  That being said, reality is a slippery concept with her and I often wonder with me given what I hear from her so how could I be so bold as to know this is something worth pursuing?  Further, the more you read on these various conditions, there are tons of overlap among symptoms.  BPD may not be it but I still feel like depression and anxiety can't explain it all.  I'd like to save our marriage in the first instance but, if nothing else, try and get to a place where we can co-parent in a healthy and productive way but right now I don't see a path towards either goal.  I'm at a complete loss.

Any and all questions, comments and suggestions would be appreciated.

Woof

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[ArleighBurke]

I think I've been in the same boat. My wife has undergone 8+ yrs of psych for "anxiety, PTSD and depression". When I found out about BPD, she fit so well (but without the mega rages - but everything else yes).

I've also considered telling her psych about my concerns, maybe it's BPD, and seeing if that will help. But I havn't yet.

Over the last 2 years I've been watching - and I've come to the realisation that she may not have BPD (because she doesn't rage). But closely related is just being a HSP (Highly Sensitive Person). Basically, BPD and HSP operate almost exclusively on emotion rather than logic.

But what does that mean? For me, it doesn't matter whether she is BPD or not. All the BPD techniques still work. So I am learning about validation, how to talk, how to argue, how to set boundaries. All those things help me and the relationship. Indirectly they also help her.

The next step would be for me to start using DBT techniques in life. If i were diciplined, I could "teach" her DBT without her ever knowing. Read "High Conflict Couple" - it tells you how. But for now, I'm just making things smoother.

I think in the end it needs to be her decision for therepy. She may get there, but she may not. You can't force her. So just work on making things better for you as best you can.

[thisagain]

Welcome, Woof!

Sounds like you've been through a lot. I'm glad you have your therapy and now us to help out.

Many of us have found that our BPD partners or exes are very good at keeping therapists from seeing the extent of the problem. It can be incredibly frustrating, but it's generally accepted that we shouldn't try to get involved with their therapy or tell them what we think about the diagnosis. I'm sure you just want to help her, but unfortunately there's not much we can do for people who are deep in denial and can't help themselves.

Whatever ends up happening with the relationship, you're in the right place. There are communication techniques and tools you can use to improve your relationship. People with BPD (or BPD traits) see the world very differently than we do, and interpret basic human interactions very differently sometimes. But there are ways for us to communicate that are more likely to meet their needs and avoid triggering an outburst. I'd suggest that you start with validation, and see if that might help her feel more warmth and empathy. Communication Skills - Validation

When you say you're the soon-to-be ex-spouse, what is the status of the relationship right now? How long have you been living apart? Do you and your wife have your own relationship, or is it focused entirely on co-parenting?

[Woof]

Williamskevin, thank you for your note.  My circumstances sound similar.  I agree that, whether you diagnose our spouses' symptoms BPD, Hypersensitive, Highly-sensitive or something else, the techniques for addressing them are similar.  I haven't read "High Conflict Couple" but will do so.  Good suggestion.  There are a couple of things I struggle with and you may be able to relate.  First, my wife has had loads of DBT training, and could probably lead a group on it, but, for some reason, implementing those skills when she needs them has been an enormous challenge for her... .and one that she doesn't recognize.  In other words, even with months and months of intensive group therapy and training focused solely on developing DBT skills, her responses to whatever the trigger events are have remained largely the same, and have generally grown more angry, and there is no recognition after the fact that her responses could be interpreted by others around her as highly disproportionate to the triggers.  I'm struggling with how to make those connections for her.  Does this sound familiar?  Second, I recognize my role is to reduce and help manage the triggering events through some of the communication skills you mention, and help my children do the same (while helping them develop their own coping mechanisms), and that, while I've come a long way in this department, we can always improve.  That being said, it is simply exhausting to be on high-alert for potentially triggering events, acts or statements.  Further, some of the communication skills recommended like validation and boundaries often draw more anger.  Do you ask yourself how much of your own personality and self, and the personality and selves of your children, are you willing to compromise to construct this positive environment for your spouse to avoid all of the angry emotion?

[Woof]

Thisagain, thank you also for your response.  Your instincts are consistent with the advice of my therapist.  For me to be more assertive in pursuing possible BPD with my wife's therapist is a boundary problem for me.  It is frustrating, though.  To answer your questions, we've been living apart for 3 months.  I found a place close to home and have been taking the kids for dinner twice a week and every other weekend.  Some of my communications with my wife are perfectly normal and reminiscent of better times and some of the communications from my wife are horrendous.  Co-parenting is a challenge because my wife often parents from her emotional state (disproportionate reaction to alleged infraction) and I find myself trying to mediate, which only exasperates the situation.  Outside of parenting, our relationship has grown so distant, in part because of my withdrawal, that it is hard to say that we have a meaningful one.  That being said, we have had weekends away or evenings out that don't end in disputes but they have been few and far between for the last 10+ years.

[ArleighBurke]

Do you ask yourself how much of your own personality and self, and the personality and selves of your children, are you willing to compromise to construct this positive environment for your spouse to avoid all of the angry emotion?

Great question.

Ultimately, she will always be angry - that is just her.

But you need to find the balance that's right for you. Most nons on this board are probably broken because they put in too much of themselves trying to help their partners. We were all fixers! You've moved out - which is drastic - but also a great step to maintaining yourself.