I'm wishy washy

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

I had a great time in Colorado this last weekend, but was plagued with thinking about her for nearly the whole trip. I haven't been ready to move on yet. I wanted so badly to be able to give her another chance but it's not there. I'm too hurt and can't trust her. I feel like I'm acting as wishy washy as a pwBPD lately. Except I have a legitimate reason to not trust her: cheating, lying, cutting herself, and making it clear that she wasn't 100% on board with my daughter. I'm doing the battle between my feelings and my logical brain. I met up with her a few evenings ago and wanted to see what was going on with counseling and with her psyche. Over the weekend she begged me for another chance and insisted that we go to couples counseling to repair our relationship. When we met up, she and I got intimate... .And I felt terrible afterwards, because I don't trust her and I can't see myself ever being able to let her back in to my life. I went against my morals, because I couldn't have her come back to my house with me and spend the night. I couldn't because she is a threat and a danger to my daughter, my new roommate, and myself. It's a really hard place to be. She sensed my uneasiness afterward and it set her off into her abandonment cycle. I got angry with her (was really afraid) and started complaining. The next evening she was extremely emotional as she can get when she dysregulates. I feel like I can't do it with her ever again, and I'm ashamed of having chose to be intimate with her again. I feel like I let everyone down.

[Welgrow]

I had a great time in Colorado this last weekend, but was plagued with thinking about her for nearly the whole trip. I haven't been ready to move on yet. I wanted so badly to be able to give her another chance but it's not there. I'm too hurt and can't trust her. I feel like I'm acting as wishy washy as a pwBPD lately. Except I have a legitimate reason to not trust her: cheating, lying, cutting herself, and making it clear that she wasn't 100% on board with my daughter. I'm doing the battle between my feelings and my logical brain. I met up with her a few evenings ago and wanted to see what was going on with counseling and with her psyche. Over the weekend she begged me for another chance and insisted that we go to couples counseling to repair our relationship. When we met up, she and I got intimate... .And I felt terrible afterwards, because I don't trust her and I can't see myself ever being able to let her back in to my life. I went against my morals, because I couldn't have her come back to my house with me and spend the night. I couldn't because she is a threat and a danger to my daughter, my new roommate, and myself. It's a really hard place to be. She sensed my uneasiness afterward and it set her off into her abandonment cycle. I got angry with her (was really afraid) and started complaining. The next evening she was extremely emotional as she can get when she dysregulates. I feel like I can't do it with her ever again, and I'm ashamed of having chose to be intimate with her again. I feel like I let everyone down.

[once removed]

welgrow, 

do you believe in yourself?

[Welgrow]

Once removed,

Sometimes. In what particular way?

[once removed]

in the particular way that people who dont (or less generally, arent) find themselves in situations they dont want to be in, and seem to keep digging in spite of ourselves.

if im on target there, it very often involves going against our morals, or our values. you didnt let everyone down, but you may have let yourself down. dont kick yourself for that, learn from it.

what do you want going forward? how does that pertain to her if at all?

[Euler2718]

Dude, you slept with her once and it went against your instincts for protecting your kid. Only once though. If you do it 10 times, that's something -- but once? You're only human!

[Welgrow]

I certainly want to learn from it and move on... .I have been digging and self searching for the answers about why I ended up with a woman who suffers from this type of illness. I have found a lot thus far. I love her but I think the FOG has blown away and the denial about her condition has lost its hold. She needs DBT... .I need to learn better boundaries, self love, and need to grow out of falling for toxic love. My morals and values involve only being intimate with someone I have a future with. It hit me like a ton of bricks afterward. I really don't know her... .I don't know who she is behind the mirroring and idealization. I don't know who she's been with lately, and I can't trust her to follow through with any of her promises or to look out for my best interest (and my daughter's). So yes I let myself down. I feel like I let down my support group. They have been in my corner, giving me pep talks, and listening to me process the tornado of a relationship.

Tim27818,

Thanks bro... .It's been almost two months since we broke up, and I was playing with fire by meeting with her and considering counseling. It was a hard lesson to learn. I need to protect my little girl and my livelihood first. I have known a diagnosed pwBPD before (my daughter's mom), and I know how dangerous these situations can become. Time to quit playing with fire.

[once removed]

I feel like I let down my support group. They have been in my corner, giving me pep talks, and listening to me process the tornado of a relationship.

we still are, Welgrow  . this is not a place for judgment, and you are not alone in this situation. we all have our unique paths toward detachment, and it sounds like all of this is in fact informing your decision - thats good. the growth you are experiencing, and willingness to look within are good too, but even as the FOG lifts, keep in mind its an active situation, and that everyone understands that decisions are not reached easily right now.

so whats going on as of the past few days? are you in contact?

[Welgrow]

Once removed,

Thanks for being kind and easy on me. I've noticed that my internal dialogue usually sounds like an angry drill sergeant, so learning to be kind to myself has been a challenge. As of right now there hasn't been contact for about 3 days. I told her that we are perhaps not suited for one another and that we both need to work on ourselves on separate paths. This hasn't stopped her before. She has difficulty respecting boundaries. I have difficultly enforcing them. So as of now NC, although I have yet to change my phone number (which a lot of my friends are suggesting). I don't know what else to do to solidify my choice to detach... .It seems that it has required time and experience thus far.

[once removed]

NC can be a useful tool in some situations, especially to give yourself some space and to sort through things and process while the fog lifts. it sounds like you were clear about your intentions to her, that will probably help whereas a cutoff without explanation can produce more extreme results. she may well still reach out to you in the future. it is your choice whether to respond or not and how. have you thought about how you might proceed if she reaches out?

we all have an inner critic, as part of our psyche, but sometimes it can be overbearing, loud, or an angry drill sergeant as you describe . that can get pretty debilitating. have you considered seeing a therapist?

[Welgrow]

Yes I am seeing a therapist that specializes in PTSD. I saw him years ago after a series of traumatic experiences with my daughter's mom, and I'm seeing him again now. I have spent a little time thinking about what to do/say when she contacts me again. This is my 4th attempt at NC, and we've been broken up since the beginning of December. So far I have not been able to solidly commit to permanent no contact. The first period lasted 17 days, and I simply didn't respond to any of her calls, texts or emails. During that period of 17 days I briefly blocked her, but I didn't stick to it. Do you have any suggestions that worked with you at this early stage of detachment?

[Beacher]

How did you feel after 17 days? Was your head beginning to clear and bit and were you able to focus more on yourself and daughter? Maybe if you thought back to those days and any positive things you did and felt during them it would help.I am always compelled to reach out to my partner after a while and always feel particularly guilty if he is crying and upset but the longer I listen to him and feel those old awful feelings coming back the more I know I'm doing the right thing by n/c. Sometimes when I get off the phone I write down the things he says and find its the SAME exact behavior as the previous call.

Maybe you should also be careful not to be alone with her. Its too early and tempting when you are upset and lonely.

[Welgrow]

Hey Beacher,

Those 17 days were the first 17 days after giving up on reconciliation. I don't think I felt very good during that phase. After 17 days I missed her a lot. I was still crying and screaming at the heavens pretty much daily. I have to say that the best, most hopeful, and least painful days are the ones I'm in now. There have been ups and downs. I've missed her desperately. I'm still vulnerable. I'm still prone to resentment, hurt and anger about what she's done. I really like what you say about writing down the things that are said to us. I may try that from here out if I don't change my number.

[once removed]

it didnt really apply to my relationship as my ex was already in another one, and i simply didnt consider contact an option.

no contact can cause a lot of anxiety for one party or both. its not wrong, but its only one tool. in what ways are you struggling? you say you blocked her briefly but didnt stick to it. what were you feeling when you unblocked her? what is the common denominator in the four attempts at NC when its gone wrong? have you explored the prospect of limited/controlled contact?

congratulations on seeing a therapist, thats a great step and will serve you well.

[Beacher]

Completely agree Onceremoved. Therapy was my savior. Gave me incredible insight to myself and my damaging relationship. Plus it was a huge weight lifted to unload and not get the usual advice from friends and family to just flee. Ain't how it works!

[Welgrow]

Hey Guys,

I hope this makes sense to you. I have loved her more intensely than I've ever loved any woman. I feel that the intensity and depth of my feelings have made my struggles nearly unbearable at times. I have never had the "this is the one" feeling before her. Our idealization phase blindsided me. I thought she fit every ideal I could've imagined which made the underlying "uneasiness" something I felt comfortable dismissing as just one of my bogus fears. When the mirage vanished and the lies were unearthed I realized that I was in trouble. Further self searching and research showed me that it was full of a lot of toxic love. That doesn't change the fact that I cared about her. I still care about her deeply, whoever she is. I was contemplating a marriage proposal, and I'm a commitment-phobe.

I still struggle with it all being a show. I have a hard time coming to terms with the facts of her condition. She has offered to do anything to make it right, and her waif qualities strike me deep in my heart. When I unblocked her a day after Christmas I was worried about her, and I missed her. She was my sidekick who I did everything with. She even went so far as to send me an Internet Love quote around New Years which said "Love means I've seen your worst side, and I'm staying"!

The common denominator with each attempt at NC seemed to be that I still view us as soulmates. I still seem to hold onto a glimmer of denial based hope that I'll wake up from this nightmare and roll over to find that beautiful little nurse that I met just laying there next to me. It's been the most painful detachment process I've ever felt. It's worse than my dad leaving us when I was a kid... .But I realize that this is a reopening of that same core wound that has shaped my codependency issues. Geez this is painful. Two months and I'm still crying as I write this.

Crap!

[once removed]

hey welgrow 

it makes perfect sense. this is painful and traumatic stuff. i think many of us relate to our exes feeling like our soul mates - not to suggest your connection wasnt unique, just that these are very intense relationships by nature, and while there is a lot of initial relief in learning a label for it all, thats often followed by a sense that its all very cruel - and it is. i can relate to a lot of what you describe, and i feel your pain. in my experience two months is about as much time as a blink. i had crying jags for quite a few months, and for example, when id say "i miss her" id hear stuff like "you miss the idea of her" (whatever that means) or that i missed the companionship. nah, i missed her. cry all you want and all you need. grieve. let yourself feel. we are here for you every step of the way.

how are you feeling today welgrow?

[Welgrow]

Thanks for supporting me. I'm so grateful to have found this site. Today I feel embarassed and hurt, because I was betrayed. I'm stuck in that bitter sweet limbo between being relieved that she hasn't contacted me in a week and being torn because I miss her and imagine that her lack of contact may mean that she's finally given up. Thanks for not telling me that my feelings for her weren't real... .I agree that it feels totally cruel, and I realize that the experience I had with her was one of her parlor tricks/patterns/whatever you want to call it. It's cruel because she played this game out with other men in a very similar fashion... .It's cruel because I found the evidence of those former games. I feel betrayed because everything was unique and special to me and it wasn't for her. She said all of those same things to other men before me, and even other men while we were together. Her past coupled with the stories here just lead me to believe that she's doing it with another target right this moment. Call me possessive... .It freaking hurts, and I thought she was mine and mine alone. I'm sorry to rant, but I have to get this out. It hurts so bad, and I made the mistake of investing way too much with the wrong person. I was conned... .And my emotions were sucked dry. Yesterday I kinda got hit on by a really beautiful barista near my work, and I'm still so messed up and in my head that I missed it. I hate that I still only want her, and I hate that her behavior and disorder has made her unqualified to be with me.

[once removed]

I'm stuck in that bitter sweet limbo between being relieved that she hasn't contacted me in a week and being torn because I miss her and imagine that her lack of contact may mean that she's finally given up.

this may be something of a conditioned response - expecting her to reach out based on past behavior. it makes sense that that would keep you feeling stuck and in limbo. give it time. having said that, whether she contacts you or not doesnt speak to your stated commitment of exiting the relationship. it might give you a sense of validation if she does contact you, but space is probably for the best right now - your other stated commitment. it may feel more empowering if you see this all as your choice and your decision, and her respecting that, for right now.

and I realize that the experience I had with her was one of her parlor tricks/patterns/whatever you want to call it. It's cruel because she played this game out with other men in a very similar fashion... .It's cruel because I found the evidence of those former games.

i think its less of a game, and more a combination of what is "normal" to her, and survival, for her. if everything was all a game, then we are all a bunch of suckers. i dont think thats the case .

I feel betrayed because everything was unique and special to me and it wasn't for her. She said all of those same things to other men before me, and even other men while we were together.

again, and it may sound like im splitting hairs, but it gets easier to see the bigger picture further down the road: her experience of the relationship was likely not the same as yours. that does not mean experiences werent unique or special to her. however with borderline personality disorder, such experiences are fleeting, difficult to build on, and not sustainable. with regards to the words spoken during the relationship, think about it this way: i told my ex things like she was the most beautiful girl in the world. do i still feel that way? hardly. i very much did at the time. we all have a tendency to develop certain romantic lines. some of them, we say to facilitate an attachment, which for someone with BPD is the ultimate goal. none of that makes it less painful or shocking when we see a partner say these things to someone else. detaching from the words that were said, learning about the underlying motivations of BPD, they go a long way toward depersonalizing what is very hurtful behavior. i dont expect that to happen to you over night, as i said, grieve your relationship, but know that there is a light at the end of the tunnel.

please dont apologize for ranting. its part of what this board is for, and we are here for you. this is painful, and traumatic stuff. i can assure you everyone here understands that. get it all out. it helps to talk

[Welgrow]

Once removed,

You were dead right. She approached me at the gym two evenings ago after my last post. She was leaving the gym as I arrived and I didn't think she saw me. She walked away to her truck, and I snuck inside and started working out. A few minutes later she walked back in the gym (I think she saw my car parked on the street) and began orbiting me as I worked out. She walked back and forth and right past me for an hour. I kept myself from making eye contact and just went about my business until I was just about to leave. She walked up to me smiling as if everything was fine and pretended to have not saw me. I didn't put on a facade, I had a scowl on my face and avoided small talk. When she asked me how I was, I said "how do you think I am?" I can't play nice with her. I soon thereafter said "I can't believe you" a couple of times and walked away. Of course the text messages started back up that night into the next morning. She called me an A--hole and a jerk and seemed to make it out that she's just trying to be nice and check on me. I'm bitter and I still have a hard time accepting that she doesn't process things like the majority of us. You say that she doesn't mean to be how she is and I have a hard time not believing that she's Con-Man. It's like she's just a player, playing the field and telling everyone what they want to hear until she can't keep up the act anymore and it all spews out. I was so angry with her when she called me an A--hole, and I responded by calling her a Cheater and a Liar. While she ranted about being a victim of my anger, I drafted a response that let her know that she hadn't done the things I needed to rebuild trust and told her not to talk to me at the gym anymore. I then told her that I was going to block her number... .And I blocked it... .Then I spent the rest of a beautiful day in my bed being depressed and trying to sleep. This sucks. I really want to move on from this phase and be free of her. I don't want to be a slave to her anymore and I don't want her in my thoughts all day long.

[once removed]

thats a pretty frustrating encounter welgrow, especially if things are pretty raw right now.

why do you think it made you so angry that she called you that? (the answer seems obvious, but think about it)

i wouldnt exactly say "she doesnt mean to be how she is". shes an adult, and she is how she is. by the same token, "how she is" is mentally ill. thats no excuse for her actions, its the reality of what you are struggling against.

its understandable that youre bitter, time and space may bring clarity as you process. anger is a valid part of that processing.

[Welgrow]

I was angry because I'm still angry about her cheating on me. I feel like I have every right to be angry and to express that anger. I wasn't calling her names or saying anything to her that wasn't an honest expression of what was feeling or thinking. She had the nerve to tell me I was verbally abusing her and that she's a good person and didn't deserve it. She used to tell me that her ex was verbally abusive, and when I caught her having an affair with him and I read their text messages I didn't see any verbal abuse. She seems like she has a different sense of what verbal abuse is. I feel like I'm angry and resentful and if she felt that I was verbally abusing her then she shouldn't continue to contact me against my wishes. Perhaps this is part of her attempt to illicit FOG and to suck me back in, but instead I blocked her. I'm angry because I'm already hurt and grieving, and she felt the need to contact me and when I didn't respond the way she wanted me to she decided to call me a name and try to guilt trip me. And yet here I am still thinking about her almost constantly. It's embarrassing. I'm vacillating between angry and depression right now. I know it's part of the grief process but it still sucks. I think that she's probably doing just fine and possibly doesn't even give me much thought, but here I am still indentured to her on such a deep level. It doesn't make me feel strong or masculine at all. I hate the feeling of powerlessness.

[once removed]

I feel like I have every right to be angry and to express that anger.

of course you do. anger is a normal part of the stages of grief, and its a normal response to someone that we feel has wronged us. in that sense, its healthy, and can be productive. you used it to block her, and claim your emotional space, which youre entitled to. good 

And yet here I am still thinking about her almost constantly. It's embarrassing. I'm vacillating between angry and depression right now. I know it's part of the grief process but it still sucks. I think that she's probably doing just fine and possibly doesn't even give me much thought, but here I am still indentured to her on such a deep level. It doesn't make me feel strong or masculine at all. I hate the feeling of powerlessness.

do you feel you may also be turning some of the anger inward? do feelings of powerlessness tend to make you more angry or more depressed?

[Welgrow]

I'd say that I feel both angry and depressed from the sense of powerlessness I have over our failed relationship and the codependency that still exists in me. I'm making efforts towards empowerment. I'd also say that I feel more sad and depressed when I'm in NC... .Do you have some specific thoughts on that?

And yes I've been angry at myself for getting played... .As much as it doesn't make sense I'm angry at myself for the entirety of my life experiences that have made me the way I am in regards to my relationship issues. I need to let that go and accept that life has happened and it has taken everything to finally get me to the point where I'm willing to grow out of this.

[once removed]

I'd also say that I feel more sad and depressed when I'm in NC... .Do you have some specific thoughts on that?

sure. NC is typically an anxiety inducing situation. its often times initiated with misguided intentions, in which cases its usually destined to fail. even when we initiate it for us, for our space and healing, its hard to sit with the anxiety it instills. that old analogy where a person states "dont think about an elephant. dont think about an elephant" applies as well. detaching is painful, for me its always been an anxiety inducing concept. anticipating the pain, recognizing that its normal, its okay, its there for a reason, but that it will pass, are ways of "sitting with it". sometimes, even fighting with our exes seems like a better alternative to sitting with this pain. make sense?

sure it makes sense. sometimes depression is anger turned inward. i see you expressing a lot of responsibility for your life experiences and relationships - thats a great attitude. radical acceptance as well as seeing the silver lining (that youre to the point that you want to grow out of this) are the steps between moving from victim, to survivor, to thriver, and living that growth you refer to. having said that, it sounds like youre kicking yourself a lot too. do you think that self forgiveness is something you can work toward at some point?

[Welgrow]

I've heard a few people around here mention doing NC the wrong way or with the wrong intentions... .What does that mean?

It makes complete sense to me that NC is very painful to me and even subjecting myself to the uncertainty of involve with my former girlfriend is preferable to the pain. I understand that I have to learn how to sit and go through the discomfort so I can get to the other side where I'm supposed to find... .Something... .Hopefully something better. A mentor described going through the grief and feeling the feelings as an avenue to reaching a deeper joy in life. I don't know wha it means but I want it.

Self forgiveness seems a daunting task to me. It's been hard enough to silence the inner drill sergeant who reminds me how much I mess up. I'm trying to choose different words and assign different concepts to things or even assign no meaning at all and just let things be. It's hard. I'm always open to suggestions about any of that.

[once removed]

I've heard a few people around here mention doing NC the wrong way or with the wrong intentions... .What does that mean?

one example would be using NC as a tool to manipulate the other person, whether its vengeful, or in hopes of saving the relationship. NC is one tool among others that can facilitate detachment. it isnt for everyone or every circumstance. it often means different things to different people. you can read more about what it means in this thread: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=284223.0 and this article: https://bpdfamily.com/bpdresources/nk_a110.htm.

I understand that I have to learn how to sit and go through the discomfort so I can get to the other side where I'm supposed to find... .Something... .Hopefully something better. A mentor described going through the grief and feeling the feelings as an avenue to reaching a deeper joy in life. I don't know wha it means but I want it.

it means different things to each of us, but id agree with that assessment. in my opinion and experience, suffering really hollows you out, leaving that greater capacity for joy, for love. it also leaves you with the knowledge that you can survive the greatest depths of emotional pain and suffering, as well as with the certainty that it will pass. both go a long way when youre in the depths of it. its not just a given, of course, ive had grief in my life i dont feel enriched my life at all.

im five years out, tomorrow. there is no emotional pain tied to thoughts of my ex or the relationship. honestly there arent a lot of lovey dovey feelings for her or the relationship either, but i do wish her the best, im truly happy for her that she went back, and accomplished her dream job. i am thankful that the relationship happened. im thankful for what i learned from it. not to be melodramatic, but i feel like the experience freed me from myself; my own emotional immaturity, my bad habits and patterns, i feel that it made me far more available to a healthy relationship, and gave me a better idea of what i want in one. i look back at where i was post break up. intensely isolated. unable to function. desperately lonely. sick with grief. i didnt have much support outside of my mother, god bless her. as an introvert id always been able to "be alone". what id never been able to do was be "on my own" in the midst of the hardest thing ive ever gone through. i survived, like somewhere deep down, i knew i would. i found peace. with the grace of god, i did that, no one did it for me. and ill never make light of it, i consider it one of my greatest accomplishments. and now, i can help others through it, and im thankful for that.

experiences may vary, of course, but thats mine. i think you are well on your way to discovering what it means for you.

Self forgiveness seems a daunting task to me. It's been hard enough to silence the inner drill sergeant who reminds me how much I mess up. I'm trying to choose different words and assign different concepts to things or even assign no meaning at all and just let things be. It's hard. I'm always open to suggestions about any of that.

its also hard to experience inner peace and joy with that inner drill sergeant, i really feel for you. assigning different words and different concepts is a great approach, seems CBT oriented. i think you mentioned youre attending therapy, and that ought to be a great place to get him under control, and learn how to respond to him. at that point, you may feel a sense of empowerment youve not felt before, not unlike removing the proverbial ball and chain.

when do you think you first started to experience the inner drill sergeant?

[Welgrow]

I don't want to personify "my inner drill sergeant" beyond recognizing that I beat up on myself when I make mistakes. For example, when I found out about my BPDx's affairs I became very angry with her and had such an overwhelming sense of loss and grief. As soon as my anger towards her subsided I immediately began picking myself apart for having let it happen. When I was able to talk to my mentor and friends about it, I was describing myself as an idiot, a sucker, a fool, stupid, etc... .When in reality, I had a sense that something was wrong. Instead of calling myself a fool and an idiot, I should be commending myself for seeing that something was wrong. I'm not proud of failing to reinforce my boundaries, both internal and external. But I should trust myself, because the gut feeling was there, I just didn't initially heed it.

I wasn't aware of her fitting with BPD yet, but I had an intuition that she was doing something inappropriate. Her emotional roller coaster was in full swing, and I was already losing my trust in her. I confronted her and demanded to see her phone... .I had done some research and discovered a hidden text message inbox, and called her out on her lies. She begrudgingly gave me the password and I only found an old message strain, but I was able to restore her inbox to 4 days prior... .and ugh! There it was! All the love messages between her and her ex, plus an additional guy that she had dated before me, but she never completely got rid of him. She continued to lie and tried to come up with explanations until she eventually admitted that her and her ex had sex during our relationship. She first claimed that he raped her (shock story to confuse me... .it worked initially), but even that story fell apart and I'm left not truly knowing the truth about anything except that she is a Pathological Liar, and a very sick person.

I realize that my internal self-flogging has been present as far back as I can remember. I vaguely remember this type of thinking being present in my childhood. Whenever I messed up there was little self forgiveness and tons of self-criticism. I've been my own worst enemy. So in regards to this recent betrayal, I have to say that I'm not an idiot. I made mistakes, but overall I dodged a bullet. God created me with a functioning BS detector that eventually saved me once the love drunken stupor wore off. I'm an awesome human being and a great catch. I have some work to do, but I am worthy. I need to work on believing that.

As far as the NC as a negative tool... .I currently view it as a way for me to get out of the way and heal while letting her have her journey to her rock bottom. I don't know if it will help her but it may help me a lot. I was not healing while she was in contact and able to pick at the scab. I'm still wishy washy... .Last night the thought hit me that "what if she really is telling me the truth... .she said she'd never hurt me again, and that I'm her soulmate, and we belong together... .She said she just wants to take care of me like I was taking care of her... .What if I'm the one seeing it all wrong?" I had a good long cry and fell asleep.

[once removed]

welgrow, i think a good 99% of us are partly here because we ignored the red flags our guts were telling us about. sometimes we willingly ignored them, sometimes we thought there were reasonable justifications. i felt like a sucker myself, which was really uncomfortable for me, because i dont consider myself "a sucker". i have a pretty good BS detector too . im not sure such detectors were built for mental illness, but i digress, as a gut feeling is a gut feeling and we felt them. i agree with you: mistakes were made, we are human beings, and beating ourselves up leads us nowhere, though learning from our mistakes is critical. from my vantage point, you are doing just that, and you should certainly commend yourself.

with regard to NC, i also think you have the right attitude. sometimes claiming our space is the most loving thing we can do for ourselves and our partners.

I'm still wishy washy... .Last night the thought hit me that "what if she really is telling me the truth... .she said she'd never hurt me again, and that I'm her soulmate, and we belong together... .She said she just wants to take care of me like I was taking care of her... .What if I'm the one seeing it all wrong?" I had a good long cry and fell asleep.

im sorry to hear you had a tough night welgrow  . the thing about these whatifs that jumps out to me is that even assuming all of that is true, youll have a much clearer idea about all of it with some time, space, and healing, no?