Wanting Him to Understand

[HurtinNW]

One of my biggest challenges is a strong desire to make my ex understand: Understand how he hurt me, understand how unacceptable his behaviors are, understand my feelings, and so forth.

Now I know rationally that he may never understand. I know that is part and parcel of whatever issues he has. He is either incapable or unwilling to understand.

Yet this is a HUGE struggle for me. I spend a lot of time imagining scenes in which someone confronts him. Or I finally say just the right thing. Or something else happens in which the light bulb goes off. I know this is not healthy and I am trying to catch myself. But I am also trying to be curious with myself: why do I do this? What is it about me that makes this issue so important?

In examining my feelings there is a sense of railing: wanting to rail against the injustice of it, the deep hurt, the betrayal, the panic. I always wanted my mother to have a eureka moment too. I wanted her so say sorry. I wanted her to take accountability for how badly she hurt me. She never did. Probably he won't either. And if he did what good would it do me? Vindication is not the same as love.

I know my responsibility in continuing to hope for the eureka moment when everything says it isn't coming. I did this with my mom too. Now that I have decided to detach it is like these feelings are coming in great sweeps, obliterating everything else. It feels like a small death. Maybe this desire he understands is one connection I am keeping and I need to let it go.

I don't know what to do with that. Where do I put those feelings? How do accept this? Anyone have some insights to help me on this path?

[Notwendy]

For me HW, I think this is a compulsion driven by my childhood issues. I wanted my mother to understand me. Then, I wanted my father to understand me, but more so- I wanted to be validated.

I grew up being a people pleaser.  Being a motivated child, I tried hard to get recognition from my parents.

They didn't ignore me. They did recognize when I did things they liked, but, they didn't know me. They saw/knew what they chose to see, often a projection or when I did something that met their approval. But if I didn't, well that led to what felt like rejection on their part.

When this happens, I think we too put on a mask to get approval and don't recognize, validate, who we are. Then, we set off on a path to look for that validation from someone else.

What do you do with the feelings of wanting your ex to understand you?

I had these feelings in my marriage. I wished someone would take my H aside and tell him that what he was doing was hurtful to me. I didn't understand what was going on during a time when I felt painted black. I wanted him to see how much it hurt me, thinking that if only he saw it, he would stop. If I tried to explain, I felt invalidated.

Once I began working on co-dependency, I practiced understanding what was my business, and someone else's business. I came to the conclusion that, we really can not change someone else's thinking. Basically- I can not make anyone understand me. I can seek to understand other people and other people can seek to understand me, but they have to want to make this effort, but I can not make them do it. However, I can validate myself. I don't need anyone else to. If I believe that the sky is green and someone else thinks it is blue, then, we can each think that. If I am being accused of something or projected on- and it isn't true- then I don't have to defend it, or accept it.

I have come to understand that boundaries and actions communicate better than words if I need someone to "understand" something and words don't seem to work.

It is said that we seek out partners with whom we play out childhood issues with the hopes of resolving them. I now believe that we can also resolve them on our own. If we are triggered or have this kind of desire, it can be a clue to what that issue is.

[Grey Kitty]

You are starting in the right place:

You acknowledge how badly you WANT him to understand your hurt and your feelings, etc.

You acknowledge that your WANTING doesn't change his capacity to do so... .which even if you were in contact with him is just about zero, and if it does happen, not sustainable.

No, there isn't anything easy about this place.

And I'd agree with Notwendy--you can validate those things for yourself. 

[hope2727]

Oh HurtingNW I so understand where you are coming from. I totally get it.

Its not a need for revenge or retribution but just a little validation and justice.

I can only tell you this. When I was a small child I watched my father destroy his own life waiting for his mother to recognize how much he had done for her. I remember when my grandmother was on her death bed telling my mom that my father was just waiting for his mom to sit up and thank him. I was maybe 12. It was never ever going to happen.

Now I am watching my brother destroy his life waiting for my father to appreciate him. My brother has actually stated that he is trying to live out my fathers dreams before my father dies. Ummm ok what about your own dreams?  Its messed up.

I would LOVE some acknowledgement from my expwBPD of the harm they have done. The love they lost. The lies they told. The smear campaign they ran. ALL OF IT! It will never ever come. I have to somehow accept this and rebuild a life I can live with. He will go on either happily or not, with my replacement or without, cleaning up his financial mess or not, continuing his trail of lies or not. It has little to do with me anymore. I acted in good faith. He did not. The end. He will never thank me for the time, money and effort I put into him and us. He will never give an appropriate apology for the trail of damage he left behind. He will never call, write, stand in front of the friends he turned against me or anyone else and say how he messed up my life, hurt me, betrayed me etc. I have to learn to live with it.

I am coming up on 2 years and in truth it still hurts. Not as much but it does. I am still trying to accept the permanent damage he left behind. I have lost a career and many other things I will never get back. BUT... .I can make a new life with out him. I don't have to wait for an apology that will never come. Thinking he will understand what he did is akin to asking a blind man to understand the colour orange. It isn't going to ever happen.

So yes you are right and he is wrong. No you didn't create this mess. Yes he hurt you deeply and that will never, really heal entirely. You will however go on and build a happy healthy life. So start thinking about what you are going to do in small tiny ways to chip away at the hurt and find some happy. There is no easy way to let it go. I wrote it out and read aloud some of the hurts. I screamed in my truck til my throat hurt. I bought a guitar and started lessons. I ordered a motorcycle. I am planning to move out of my (our) home and buy something bigger and without his memories. He is nothing now but an annoying buzz in the background most days. I miss him. I love him. But I'll be darned if I will put up with one more moment of his douchbaggery any longer. He knows right from wrong, he chose wrong, the end. I hope you can get to this point sometime soon.

Meanwhile eat the expensive ice-cream. Drink to much wine with your friends and laugh until hurts. Let him go to his own divine destiny. I assure you it won't be pretty.

Hugs.

[Cat Familiar]

One of my biggest challenges is a strong desire to make my ex understand: Understand how he hurt me, understand how unacceptable his behaviors are, understand my feelings, and so forth.

Now I know rationally that he may never understand. I know that is part and parcel of whatever issues he has. He is either incapable or unwilling to understand.

Hurtin, you express your feelings so eloquently and so clearly. I completely understand how important it is to be seen by those we have loved and what an impossible request that is for someone who is a pwBPD.

I think about how easy it is to talk with my girlfriends and laugh about really difficult life issues and share feelings. I think how rewarding it is when I see the recognition and understanding in their eyes and when they can say words that are comforting and reassuring and that make me laugh. Why can't my husband be capable of this? I know the answer and I guess the real question is "Why did I choose to marry someone who is so emotionally remote and inaccessible?"

I'm coming to acceptance with this and little events during the day remind me of how differently a pwBPD processes emotions and sees the world. Yesterday my husband took his car to the dealership for service, about an hour's drive from here. During that time, he called home at least five times. I answered one of the calls, which happened about an hour after he left, and he told me he "missed me."

In the past, I would have felt loved and appreciated by those words. Now I hear it and what it means to me is that he feels insecure. I didn't answer the other calls because it annoyed me to be interrupted from what I was doing only to hear silence on the other end of the line as he would have expected me to entertain him with conversation. At times, I've asked him pointedly, "What's up? (you called me.)"

I'm getting a little off-track with my metaphor, but I think, with time, you'll see your ex with more clarity and what you had interpreted as loving gestures in the past, might now seem needy instead.

[HurtinNW]

Thank you, everyone!

I woke up this morning thinking part of it is if he validated everything then my own worries it was my fault would subside. Part of it is my PTSD thinking that maybe it was all my fault, so I want him to take the blame off of me.

There were a lot of times in our relationship, especially before I started practicing these tools, that I behaved immaturely and reactively. My mind keeps returning to those as well. I think I am trying to place blame either on him or me. I veer between wanting him to see how much he hurt me, and fearing that everything he says about me is true, that I am broken and damaged and unloveable.

I know the truth is someplace outside these co-dependent ways of looking at it. He isn't going to see how much he hurt me because he can't see *me*, the soul under whatever facade he imagines me to be. And me buying into those childhood messages isn't the same as me examining my role in why I engaged in this relationship.

My mother and family never validated me. It was the opposite, in crazy-making land. So for me this can feel like a struggle for my existence. Validating myself is not something I am in the habit of doing.

hope2727, I watched my siblings also destroy their lives trying to please my mother. My oldest brother committed suicide, and one of the last things he told my mother was, "I just wanted to be a good boy." He struggled his whole life with guilt and fear he had taken from her, and adopted so deeply as his own he could not see it. He was my mother's caretaker. He could not admit how much she had damaged him and us and it eventually destroyed him.

I am trying to embrace the healthy and find the happy. I am super lucky to have such awesome kids, a career, and my art. 

Cat Familiar: the interesting dynamic in our relationship was I was seen as the "needy" one. This was because I was pushing for more commitment, and I readily acknowledge my own object constancy issues due to repeated childhood abandonment. Boyfriend reacted to all of this with anger, scorn and stonewalling. As you say, it is up to me to examine why I accepted that, and let myself get characterized as the damaged, broken and "bad" partner.

Reading your post I had the lightbulb moment maybe I wasn't that needy, that he was projecting in some ways. He was, as you say, emotionally remote and inaccessible. What I was hungering for was emotional connection, intimacy and safety. The more he scorned and rejected that the more I sought it out, and the more he played out his own imperious, cold father.

Now I am seeing maybe he was very needy in his own way. He needed me to be exactly a certain way. Like a profile in a window is the image that comes to mind. He wanted a partner that made him look good in public. He wanted a "high-status" partner that reflected well on him (I am very well-respected as an artist). He wanted someone who was available for what he wanted when he wanted it but nothing more. The loving gestures he did make were in fact all about him and not about me. Like parading me around in public and acting adoring in front of others. Like gazing deep into my eyes when talking about his past. Like saying he wanted to marry me when we made love. And the flip side of that was how easily it changed to anger, because that was also all about him. Wow. I never thought of it that way before.

[Cat Familiar]

I woke up this morning thinking part of it is if he validated everything then my own worries it was my fault would subside. Part of it is my PTSD thinking that maybe it was all my fault, so I want him to take the blame off of me.

My heart breaks for that little girl who felt that it was all her fault that Mom hurt. I understand that. I tried to be a cheerleader and a clown and thought if I was the best little girl, I could make my mom happy. Didn't work.

There were a lot of times in our relationship, especially before I started practicing these tools, that I behaved immaturely and reactively. My mind keeps returning to those as well. I think I am trying to place blame either on him or me. I veer between wanting him to see how much he hurt me, and fearing that everything he says about me is true, that I am broken and damaged and unloveable.

Yes, I tried to figure out my fault vs. his fault in my first marriage and I ended up taking responsibility for much of what was his bad behavior. Be kind to yourself. Give yourself props for accepting responsibility. PwBPD tend to blame others instead.

I know the truth is someplace outside these co-dependent ways of looking at it. He isn't going to see how much he hurt me because he can't see *me*, the soul under whatever facade he imagines me to be. And me buying into those childhood messages isn't the same as me examining my role in why I engaged in this relationship.

Yes, you were a convenient canvas for him to paint his desires upon. He was incapable/uninterested in seeing who you really are.

My mother and family never validated me. It was the opposite, in crazy-making land. So for me this can feel like a struggle for my existence. Validating myself is not something I am in the habit of doing.

hope2727, I watched my siblings also destroy their lives trying to please my mother. My oldest brother committed suicide, and one of the last things he told my mother was, "I just wanted to be a good boy." He struggled his whole life with guilt and fear he had taken from her, and adopted so deeply as his own he could not see it. He was my mother's caretaker. He could not admit how much she had damaged him and us and it eventually destroyed him.

I am trying to embrace the healthy and find the happy. I am super lucky to have such awesome kids, a career, and my art. 

Cat Familiar: the interesting dynamic in our relationship was I was seen as the "needy" one. This was because I was pushing for more commitment, and I readily acknowledge my own object constancy issues due to repeated childhood abandonment. Boyfriend reacted to all of this with anger, scorn and stonewalling. As you say, it is up to me to examine why I accepted that, and let myself get characterized as the damaged, broken and "bad" partner.

Nothing wrong with wanting commitment, especially when it's offered. You were an art project for him and when it became clear that you had your own needs and couldn't be controlled, he became irritated and unkind.

Reading your post I had the lightbulb moment maybe I wasn't that needy, that he was projecting in some ways. He was, as you say, emotionally remote and inaccessible. What I was hungering for was emotional connection, intimacy and safety. The more he scorned and rejected that the more I sought it out, and the more he played out his own imperious, cold father.

Now I am seeing maybe he was very needy in his own way. He needed me to be exactly a certain way. Like a profile in a window is the image that comes to mind. He wanted a partner that made him look good in public. He wanted a "high-status" partner that reflected well on him (I am very well-respected as an artist). He wanted someone who was available for what he wanted when he wanted it but nothing more. The loving gestures he did make were in fact all about him and not about me. Like parading me around in public and acting adoring in front of others. Like gazing deep into my eyes when talking about his past. Like saying he wanted to marry me when we made love. And the flip side of that was how easily it changed to anger, because that was also all about him. Wow. I never thought of it that way before.

[Notwendy]

IMHO, looking at others for validation takes this power to connect with our true selves away from us, and ignores the only place where real validation can come from: our true selves, our higher power, God ( for those who choose to consider this).

One of my favorite lines from a Dr. Phil show was when he was speaking to a family that were enabling a disordered family member. They were placing the assessment of the well being of the family on her. He said " you are all lost in the woods and are looking at a person with a disorder to lead you out?"

Considering this HW, while you may seek understanding from your ex, what does this really mean? Putting your self esteem/being/understanding in his hands gives him that power. Do you really think he ( or anyone) should have that power? Take it back 

[HurtinNW]

NotWendy, good point. It is definitely an echo of my past that I want approval from people who treat me like crap. It is giving them the power. And it may also be a way I am avoiding responsibility for my own actions and future.

[Lucky Jim]

It is definitely an echo of my past that I want approval from people who treat me like crap. It is giving them the power. And it may also be a way I am avoiding responsibility for my own actions and future.

Hey Hurtin', I agree w/that.  By caring so much about what another thinks or wants, we avoid caring for ourselves.  Yes, the messages usually stem from childhood.  Time to change the focus back to you.  Like you, I once wanted my BPDxW to understand, but it was a fruitless task on my part.  Cats don't bark!  Suggest you let go of the outcome and focus on finding your path.  Listen to your gut feelings!

LuckyJim

[formflier]

 

HurtinNW,

I think Notwendy has it. 

Instead of confronting him, can you write out a letter of exactly what it is you want him to understand. 

Two things.

1.  If you ever get the chance, you will know what to say and how to say it.

2.  Likely will solidify your decision.

Personal application:  If you read my birthday party blowup thread, there was part of me that figured I would explain how taking money was wrong and they would see it was thievery,   Instead they gently sidestepped and said (admitted) Sure (brother in law) shouldn't have taken the money when he did, but he "got his cut" and now he is out (news to me he was out).

The power of "BPDish" people to rationalize and make something ok, is, amazing.

IN my world if there is no profit, there is nothing to "cut",

Anyway, I put that story out there to show that even the most clear cut things can be sidestepped.  If there is no desire for introspection and the truth, you are wasting your breath.

FF

[HurtinNW]

FF, thank you, and yes, you are right. One thing that kept me enmeshed in the relationship was the hope he would understand. But instead he always sidestepped, rationalized, minimized and fabricated in order to explain away his behavior.

It happened more times than I can count he would be abusive, say sorry, and then later, such as in couples counseling, I would have the jaw drop of listening to him explain at length how his behavior was provoked, justified and okay. The most crazy-making stuff was when he completely re-wrote history or flat out denied doing things. One of the most hurtful times for me was before our last recycle, when he crossed the line from verbally abusing me to saying something abusive to one of my kids. When we reconciled he apologized and said he was terribly sorry. Then within a month he completely denied saying at all. I don't think he was lying, either. I think he genuinely convinces himself he did not do bad things, because it is very important for him to believe in his own mask.

So that's where the urge comes from, the urge to have someone who hurt you recognize they did... .and I am realizing he will never do that. Not even the most clear-cut things, as you say.

I will definitely write the letter, and I will definitely never send it, because I know that would just be opening the door to more arguing over minutia and not taking accountability.

Thank you!