He quit his job- legal issues- I wish I could just get divorced now

[Herodias]

I just found out he quit his job... .His lawyer actually told my lawyer he wants to know if he could pay me a lump sum and not pay me alimony for awhile. He needs money to pay bills and move to Tennessee with his gf. He is claiming he got another job at a lower salary for now. I have feeling he is taking his money out of his stocks and 401k, if he hasn't already. I don't think my lawyer quite understands all of my fears. I asked about my health insurance... .she said don't worry, he has to keep paying for it... I said you don't understand, he is not going to! I think I need to just go get my own- I will call tomorrow and see if I have 30 days to do so or not. She keeps asking me if there is any mutual friends that we have that has seen him with the gf to prove the adultery- I said he has no friends! We don't run in the same circles... .Have any of you run into this-where your lawyer just doesn't get it? She said the Facebook pictures should be enough to prove the adultery, but we may have to bring in the gf. I wish I could get divorced now! I am praying that somehow everything will work out better for me... .I think it would be better for me not to rely on him to pay alimony and see if I can even get a lump sum of money  out of his 401k and be done with him! I think he is going to run off to another state and figures it will be hard for me to reach him. I am not sure how hard it is to get someone to pay alimony from another state, but I know they don't go after child support often. The gf has quit working as well... .she may be on maternity leave. Can you imagine being with your pwBPD 24/7 ?  Awful! Maybe now she will find out what he is like? I swear she is not right either. It's awful they are bringing a child into this world! I can't imagine that she is happy with him quitting his job- can you imagine what her parents think?  She may become the bread winner and he may stay home with the child! UGGHHH! This is awful- I just want to be divorced and not know any of this anymore! I am so happy they are going to be leaving the state! I will feel safe at last! Just please keep me sane until this is all over... .

[Hadlee]

Sounds like a lump sum payment would be the better option for you.

I just want to be divorced and not know any of this anymore!

Yes, the sooner you don't have to know about what he's doing, what the gf is doing, where he is, how he is living his life, the better it will be for you. 

Not long now, Blue, hang in there

[livednlearned]

Hi Herodias,

It sounds like he is getting ready to pull the rug out from beneath you  :'(

It could be him, it could be that he sought legal counsel, a lawyer who trended toward taking aggressive actions. Some lawyers will counsel their clients to play dirty, or at least tell them to be so proactive that it drastically tips the scales.

Do you have a way to check to see if he cashed out his 401K? It sounds like you live in a state that has alien of affection laws (there are only four states with these laws still on the books, to my knowledge). I live in one of those states too. In my state, if a spouse commits adultery, the "spurned" spouse can sue the "paramour." I don't know how often someone does that, though. What would happen in your state if you proved that he had an affair? I think it's different depending on what state you're in.

Is your lawyer already on retainer?

I found that when the relationship is in the tank, your best bet is to figure out what leverage, if any, that you have. Does he need anything from you? Signatures for anything? You need to negotiate like you've never done before 

If your lawyer doesn't understand that, then you will have to explain how this is going to work, unfortunately.

[Herodias]

Thank you livednlearned. Yes, this is a state you can sue the paramour- in fact, she is listed that way. She doesn't have anything, so it is really not worth it. I think my lawyer is going to find out what he has-or least try to. He is in contempt of court at this point. Yes, I think he is trying to pull out the rug and yes, I am fighting for myself like never before. Yesterday I went out and got my own health insurance because I was without for 6 days and didn't even know it! Awful! He is supposed to pay. I wrote the lawyer and told her I set up my own and asked her to advise him to refund me with my alimony. She had sent out a request to his lawyer on how he was going to handle my insurance, but I know he is not going to do anything and am not willing to be a sitting duck without any on the meantime, I told her to threaten him with jail (I have heard this isn't what would actually happen very quickly) but he is afraid of it, so he may act. I think he is going to try and disappear. I suppose I was asking allot to expect to get financial help from him, but truly I need it and he left me in a bad position. We will see where the leads... .It is so hard to make the right decisions knowing they are so impulsive and don't care about the law. Yes, I do feel like I am having to explain to her things, but yet, I don't want to spend my money teaching her about personality disorders... .

[ForeverDad]

LnL asked a good question, have you paid your lawyer a retainer?  I'll assume you did.  It's not your job to educate your lawyer about disordered ("crazy" spouses, he/she should already know what to watch out for.  You may have to decide whether to find one better qualified to handle a slick or underhanded spouse where you have to virtually pull teeth to get the needed information and responses.  However, no matter who's your lawyer, you will have to keep tabs on everything because there will always be something that a lawyer misses... .a forms filer hand holder lawyer may not be up to the monumental task.

You know your stbEx, the lawyer doesn't, yet.  So never hesitate to warn your lawyer about potential obstruction or slipperiness.  You know he will try to avoid his spousal responsibilities during the divorce so anticipate the ways he could catch you and your lawyer unawares.

There are no children together, that makes everything simpler.

How much of an 8 year marriage is considered marital assets, we don't know, we're remote peer support.  But beware of being fair and especially beware of being TOO fair.  Why?  Because once all is said and done and the divorce is final, you'll discover the ways he shorted you in the settlement.  You don't want to enable him to take you to the cleaners.

Hopefully by now you realize he will try to make you feel guilty and not make him shoulder his responsibility to do you right in the divorce.

About a lump sum.  That might be best, but it has to be part of the 'package' where everything is spelled out.  Is the car you drive titled in your name, his name or joint?  Who are the account holders on the credit cards and bank accounts?  You, him or joint?  Is he a card holder on your credit accounts? ( )  Are you a card holder on his credit accounts?  (  No problem, you're a responsible person.)  If any are joint then they need to be paid off and closed.  Ponder everything, which items need ownership figured out?

And you need to know where the money is coming from.  Has he been squirreling away marital money?  And if it comes from his retirement accounts, then that raises legal ramifications.  Splitting a 401(k) usually requires a QDRO (qualified domestic relations order) where several legal aspects are spelled out in detail.  In my case, I found an inexpensive online firm which saved me the higher expense of my lawyer handling it.  The 401(k) plan administrator then split the my account apart so my ex had her own account.  That way she could withdrew the money whenever she wanted but then I wouldn't be stuck with her penalties and taxes.

If your stbEx pulls out a lump sum money himself to give to you then that means HE is responsible for the taxes and penalties for early withdrawal from his tax-deferred account.  His account, his liability to the government.

BTW, go ahead and change any beneficiaries on your life insurance, personal bank accounts, retirement accounts, wills, etc.  It may be too soon to do some of it but see how much you can get done now.  It's okay for him to leave his papers as is, let him live his life his way, but your papers need updating.

[livednlearned]

I told her to threaten him with jail (I have heard this isn't what would actually happen very quickly) but he is afraid of it, so he may act.

The way it works where I live is this: Judges don't like repeat customers. They don't like it when one or both parties do not honor court orders. At first, they will allow one or two contempt of court motions (they are treated sort of like parking tickets: one is tolerated, two is tolerated, but three starts to look like a pattern and four gets attention). When court starts to see a pattern, then the consequences start to get stiffer. Court might at first sanction him (ie. he has to pay a portion of your legal fees). Then, if he doesn't pay, you would file a second contempt of court. Court might then give him a second chance to pay, and if he doesn't, he is to report to jail. In my case, my ex was in contempt of court so often that during one of our hearings, the bailiff was ordered to put handcuffs on him. This was over a financial matter, so ex paid on the spot to avoid jail.

In other words, you have to pace yourself. And to some extent, ignore what makes sense. If the paramour does not have any money, you may consider involving her anyway as a way to set the bar high. Ask your lawyer what this might entail, I'm just tossing out possibilities. In our cases, it's best to start off with a very high negotiating stance knowing that we will probably end up with something roughly in the middle, which is probably common sense. If she is named, it's possible that she will put pressure on him to comply with whatever is asked and then you have a very unlikely ally  

For example, I gave my ex the house, thinking he would fight less. It ended up costing me money to force him to refinance and get me off the deed. If I had 20/20 hindsight, I would've foreseen the expense of taking him to court and with that knowledge, I would've asked for the house with the understanding that anything I got out of the house would've gone toward the legal fees it cost me to disentangle from him. My ex was particularly high conflict, and a former trial lawyer, and he represented himself (a real bummer   so this may not happen to you. The principle still applies, though, that you have plenty of knowledge about what your ex is like, and for his benefit and yours, (especially yours), you have to leverage that stuff so that the two of you can move on with your lives and not stay stuck in a legal fight where you both come out battered and broke.

The one thing I really learned the hard way is how to structure a court negotiation so that everything had a consequence. For example, I had my lawyer write all of the orders after each hearing. It cost me more, it also gave me an opportunity to phrase things in a favorable way. For every issue of compliance (like paying off the car, or refinancing the house) I included a consequence. At the very least, you should have a consequence that any noncompliance with the court order that results in legal action requires the offending party to pay sanctions (legal fees).

[Herodias]

Thank you livednlearned... .that is really helpful!

[ForeverDad]

The benefit of including the consequences of noncompliance up front is that if/when you return to court the judge doesn't automatically give Ex more time and then talk about consequences.  If the consequences are written into the order it means the case ought to progress faster with fewer "one more" chances.

It seems houses are the most complex of assets to clean up.  One of our members here took nearly two years just to sell the house.  Generally it is best for us to be in charge of disposing of the properties... .We keep occupancy or possession so Ex doesn't mess up the house, sell off furniture or things on the property, fail to prepare the house for showings, fail to vacate, refuse to sign sale papers, refuse to sign quit claim deed, refuse to refinance, etc.

Also a problem are squandered or hidden assets as well as sudden debts.  If it involves a lot of money then a Special Master or financial accountant may be needed to track it down.

[Herodias]

We divided everything up quickly and sold the house already. We has a separation agreement pretty fast. What has come up is his debt is piling up, he is having a baby, he owes back taxes and he want's to move  out of town with the gf and  put off paying my alimony. He has now quit his job and stopped paying my health insurance which he only had to do through his job 2 more months. I think he is starting to feel overwhelmed by his demotion at work and the pending divorce, pending felony and pending baby. She may even be pushing marriage! That would all make me crazy , let alone someone like him! He did all of this! His gf got herself in the middle of it. It makes me crazy when you hear a woman get mad when the ex wife is getting money from their boyfriends/ new husbands! They knew what they were getting into- especially if he cheated with her! I have no sympathy- especially if they got themselves pregnant. That's too easy to prevent. She believed all of his lies and didn't care about running after someones husband. I know he is getting bad advice from her as he comes off as the nieve' one. We already divided everything, we are just waiting for the divorce. He is mad that it didn't happen  sooner, but I will not lie in court and say we were not together for a year when we were. We were together last July and august when he was asking to come home doing the push/pull thing. The courts see that as trying to reconcile. I found out she was pregnant on my anniversary when she posted on Facebook that day that she was feeling queasy. Just awful! She left her husband and everything she had for him. I believe her husband filed adultery on her. Just remember, this is not the woman I found in my bed on Xmas that started all of this originally, but this one had an affair with him 3 years ago and she started up with him as soon as I separated due to the other woman. This is so complicated it's ridiculous. Exhausting!

[ForeverDad]

Legally, I don't think he can cancel you from his insurance until the divorce is final.  He can get COBRA insurance, there's a 60 day period to file for it as I recall.  Expensive, it's full cost without employer contribution plus 2%, but I believe the court would require him to continue it.  You'd have to bring it to the court's attention of course.

[GaGrl]

I have worked HR for a number of years.  When so.done either quits or is terminated from a job, he/she has a period of time in which he/ she and dependents can enroll for COBRA. So... if your Styx was obliated to pay your insurance through his job, you could probably hold him to the payment for your COBRA insurance.

However, if it's just a matter of a few months... .I'd take all the cash I could get up front, be done with him, and ensure no responsibility for any current messes he is creating.