Small niggle, but small things matter right?

[Lollypop]

Hi

I've a house with three men and two dogs. I'm 53 and had to relax into a lifestyle that involves  mud. For instance, Bpds is a tree groundsman so the washer and dryer get beaten with twigs and leaves in their systems, it's frustrating but I live with it. There's football boots, walking boots etc often left randomly around my downstairs. I've tried to organise, shout, plead, it works for a while and then I give up.  

I sometimes go to my single friends houses and they are so girly, everything just so, maybe little fairy lights. You get the picture?

When BPDs25 moved out of his pit of a bedroom last May I gutted the room.

It was redecorated, new carpet and curtains. I bought beautiful bedding, grey and white, including the softest most luscious grey blanket you've ever touched.   It was all for a family visit in August.  Everybody loves my grey room, I've kept it nice and occasionally like sleeping in there myself. I have an angel on the bed   called cecilia.

Bpds moved back home in Dec 16 and I put him in the smallest room. I WOULDNT EVEN LET MY ELDERLY MOTHER IN LAW STAY IN MY GREY ROOM AS SHE EATS CHOCOLOATE IN BED!  this small room is nice but nowhere like the grey room. He was absolutely ok with it. Now he has a girlfriend she sometimes sleeps over in my grey room.  I'm ok with this, she's a lovely girl and they both make sure the bed it always made etc. - respectfully.

Bpds went out yesterday to stay at a friends in a local city. He had a large dirty backpack on and I asked why he looked he was going away for a week, not one night. He casually replied, "oh, I need to take my bedding because there's 10 of us." I fleetingly had a thought as he skipped out.

Yep, you guess it, my grey blanket has gone off the bed!  

I know this is only a tiny matter, there's real crisis going on in your lives and I honestly understand what you may be thinking reading this but this tiny situation has really got me hopping. I try very hard to have a normal life, I concentrate on small pleasures, Bpds has overstepped into my territory.

He knew, when he walked out that door.

So now I need to do RAIN. My emotion hasn't quite dissolved but I know I need to speak to Bpds about this infringement but in a clear, concise way.

Rant over.

I feel a bit silly, but still.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[lbjnltx]

I get it... .Lollypop.

Amidst all the testosterone and the dirt that comes with it a little bit of luxury and feminine décor are important to you.

My dear husband would use my decorative pillows to prop his cloddy booted feet on. (he wasn't even supposed to have his shoes on in the house as we lived on a ranch and substances other than dirt were an issue). No matter how many times I asked him not to he would still do it.  I had to not personalize it as it was highly unlikely that he made this choice to hurt me, it was a choice of convenience for him.  I had to prioritize... .hurt husband (he was sensitive) or pretty pillows.

Even though I told him and others I felt disrespected when they would track dirt from their shoes into the house that I spent countless hours trying to keep clean... .they still would not take off their shoes.  I would ask if the 2 minutes it took to take off their shoes was more valuable than the 20 minutes it would take me to clean the mess up off the floor from their shoes... .it mattered not.  Lather rinse repeat.

I had to make a choice... .the relationship or clean floors.  I'm not saying it's ok what son did... .and you could certainly ask him not to take your things out of the house... .  Will it change what has happened? No.  Will it make a difference next time?  Maybe.  Sometimes it just comes down to priorities. 

[Lollypop]

Hi LBJ

you are marvellous and absolutely correct.

Hugs

L

[FeathersofHope]

Dear Lollypop,

Your gray room sounds positively luscious, and I so understand what you are saying. When our lives feel as though so much is beyond our control, it is so wonderful and soothing to build a tangible refuge within our homes. My BPDdd's own room is atrocious. We redecorated it (her decision) when she was 17 in beautiful muted purple, grays and off-white, and without going into detail, she has turned it into a pig sty. It is a metaphor for the life she is currently living. I cope by trying to find spaces within my home that I can keep clean and organized. If she were to take my fluffy pink blanket with roses on it out of the house to a party without asking me, I know that I would feel just as you do. It's good that you have had a chance to regroup and collect yourself before speaking to your son about this. I feel as though your beautiful gray room is a metaphor for the way you would like your life to be... .Regardless, I don't feel as though you need to explain yourself. The room and its contents are yours. No Boys (or Messy Eaters of Chocolate in Bed) Allowed! Period. 

[Lollypop]

Hi feathersofhope

Very clever analogy, it is a very calm, luxurious and soft room and I would like my life to be so. Ah well.

Regarding Bpds and his approach to his personal space. I left him to it during his last period at home. It got to be absolutely disgusting and I got moths in the carpet too. His work items are full of the woods and it all just got deeper and deeper in there. Food, plates, glasses, wrappers, matches, unopened post, loose change all mixed up.  I closed the door on it and tried not to think about it. Nothing was ever, ever done, not even a window opened and the smell!

This time I've chosen a different tactic and am active in his room.  I go in most days, I move stuff around, tidy up, put clothes away, sometimes I'll even wash them.

I'm happier because the room is presentable, he is happy because he prefers it nice (this completely surprised me!). What he's less happy about is my presence in his space. I've been flabbergasted to see that he's started to actually use the bin in there, sometimes even emptying it, I've placed a laundry basket in there and he uses it! 

Actually, it's my space and he rents it temporarily. Some may think I'm wrong and it's disrespecting but I see it as trying to show him how it could be and it seems to be working.

I'm the first to admit that everything he can do himself, he should be doing himself. I get that. It could be part of my agreement to let him stay in the house, but Ive tried that before and failed. So I'm trying something new and getting some positives results from Bpds, albeit small ones.

[Rockieplace]

No need to apologise. I get it too. I would be so frustrated in your shoes. I like the saying "if it didn't matter it wouldn't matter".

I can't live in the same house as my daughter as, left to her own devices, she lives in squalor. She has no respect for anyone else's things and acts with total disdain if you protest even gently when she thoughtlessly or carelessly ruins prized possessions.

I'm sure, with your new found skills, you can express your disappointment without ending up feeling too guilty about it!  Good luck!   

[qcarolr]

This time I've chosen a different tactic and am active in his room.  I go in most days, I move stuff around, tidy up, put clothes away, sometimes I'll even wash them.

I'm happier because the room is presentable, he is happy because he prefers it nice (this completely surprised me!). What he's less happy about is my presence in his space. I've been flabbergasted to see that he's started to actually use the bin in there, sometimes even emptying it, I've placed a laundry basket in there and he uses it!  

Actually, it's my space and he rents it temporarily. Some may think I'm wrong and it's disrespecting but I see it as trying to show him how it could be and it seems to be working.

I'm the first to admit that everything he can do himself, he should be doing himself. I get that. It could be part of my agreement to let him stay in the house, but Ive tried that before and failed. So I'm trying something new and getting some positives results from Bpds, albeit small ones.

Sometimes we need to remember that training is needed and will be resisted. So your indirect method does seem to be working. I have experienced this with my girls as well. BPDDD30 and gd10 both live with us and both have zero organization skills. Your post is a good reminder for me that this is about lack of capacity/skill and not intended to get me so unsettled. From their point of view it is just not about ME.

So this week I will tackle the disaster that is gd's room. There is a dead hermit crab I noticed today who most likely failed to molt correctly. Or the habitat got too dry!   She has demanded I not clean or organize anything beyond 5 feet inside her doorway. I have been trying to respect this and am reaching my limit soon. Is offering a reward for allowing me in there too enabling? well maybe not.

I also get the need for an organized, feminine space. I try -- it usually gets over run with gd's clutter. So my office is neat now and the garage has boxes of her 'treasures'. She can reach down in there and come up with what toy or trinket she wants. Just too much stuff. She is a hoarder in training with a very frustrated grandma.

qcr Carol

[Lollypop]

Hi qcrcarol

just a suggestion. Perhaps leaving a small token of kindness for her that you know she'd appreciate and relevant to her surroundings, something showing that you understand she's growing up? A lot would depend on her character and if she prefers "pretty" over "boyish". Something small each time, you could make it yourself (origami, a card etc). Sorry, I'm getting carried away now - can't you see how much I miss girls?

I've entered into the room slowly over the last three months, increasing it. I think I did one blitz early on and he thanked me for it so I took this as a sign.

I remember a friend once saying she'd made her daughters bed (non BPD 17) and tidied around. The mother told her daughter "you've had such a terrible day, I know you're really upset and I was trying to do something nice for you". Her long term bf had broken up with her and I remember it as a loving way to do something for her.  Of course it could have gone the other way, particularly with BPD. just throwing this in here.

I love you saying "training is needed and resisted". I'm keeping hold of that one.  Thank you.

Bpds came home. I welcomed him with a very big smile, he went straight to the fridge after a few moments I said smiling ""did you take my very gorgeous and very new blanket out with you son". He could tell I was smiling and he thought it was funny (in a good way). He replied "yes I did, I needed it". I politely told him there were other blankets and he said "but that ones so soft and thick, it's really warm and I thought I'd be cold". I validated and said "and  you won't take it out if the house again will you son?" He laughed and said  "no, no I won't".

Lightness does it! AND my H witnessed it and he knew how mad I was. I used the opportunity to explain "gently, kindly and firmly" done,

I'm a happy bunny now.

Let me know how you get on with the room.

RP: I'm with you there girl, the amount of stuff BPDs hoards! But it's tidied into the loft now. The bare minimum in his bedroom, it's so small there's not the room. A method in my madness.

Have a lovely morning day

[Lollypop]

Tip:

I make no mention of the room and any rules on tidying

I've done this slowly rather than blitzing and starting rules (that was my old way: keep it clean now)

I'm kind of working backwards

[raytamtay3]

See now in my opinion, cleaning up after my DD16 feels like enabling.  I've done it before for it to turn right back to the way it was.  Dishes with gook all over them, rotten milk, and Easter basket strewn about with the candy now embedded in the carpet, smells, clothes covering her floor - just disgusting.  I got to the point where I figured it's her space and I simply close the door so I don't have to look at it.

I will admit I did take some of the dishes out and cleaned them when she wasn't home. But only out of fear that we'd get bugs or worse!

[Rockieplace]

This was a huge problem when my BPDD(now 33) was 17 or so.  Her room was extreme and all of my friends told me that it was her room and I should respect that. 

It was, however, interfering bigtime with her life as she couldn't find any clean underwear or her school books etc.  I felt at the time that it wasn't just healthy teenage mess but didn't have the confidence to follow my instincts.  Anyhow, one day, when I was feeling super calm I decided to broach the subject.  My d was lying on her bed amid the chaos and I asked if she would let me help her to organize her room.  She gave a grudging nod but said only if I didn't nag.  I proceeded to empty the first drawer in which I found dirty and clean underwear together.  I lifted them out, still calm only to find a dinner plate with the remains of Christmas dinner underneath the underwear.  This was in May!  I lost it then.  My d stayed totally calm and said "Mother I really think you should consider counselling!"

She was right of course!  

Well done Lollypop for handling the situation as you did.  You are a better woman than me for sure!

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Lollypop]

See now in my opinion, cleaning up after my DD16 feels like enabling.  I've done it before for it to turn right back to the way it was.  :)ishes with gook all over them, rotten milk, and Easter basket strewn about with the candy now embedded in the carpet, smells, clothes covering her floor - just disgusting.  I got to the point where I figured it's her space and I simply close the door so I don't have to look at it.

I will admit I did take some of the dishes out and cleaned them when she wasn't home. But only out of fear that we'd get bugs or worse!

Hi raytaytam3

I totally get that and that's exactly what I did too. Looking back, in his mid-teens we'd blitz and work on it together and he was happy to join in and he enjoyed the clean room. His hoarding tendencies started about this time. He got worse from 17/18 onwards and the last 5 years I just closed the door. It was vile.

I couldn't understand "why he chose to live like that". This was pre-diagnosis.

I look at it this way now.

Most of his energy is given to surviving, his head is full of racing thoughts and all his efforts are directed to trying to be happy. He controls only what he feels he can control. He wakes up each day with the same negative thoughts, the same vacant whole in his chest. His environment is not important enough to him, given his priorities, to sort it out. It's not laziness.

Talking as a non-BPD (and that's debatable!) waking up to that mess would get me down. It's a very negative and unhealthy environment. It's just not good. Being bombarded with a negative image, environment or behaviour affects your mental state.

I may be completely wrong but as I've said I'm happier knowing its a more positive environment. It's what we do each and every day that makes us the person we are.

Enabler? Yep, depending on viewpoint. I'm ok with it as I can see improvements. And I don't have moths living in my carpet - always a plus!

[qcarolr]

You all have great ideas!

With DD30 I leave it to her. She does not want me messing in her area. Well, I did go in and scoop up the dirty dishes when she was out this week. I think she noticed as all the dishes are in the kitchen sink daily. She has even taken to clearing the table and 'soaking' the dishes in the sink (I put them in the dishwasher from there. Dishwasher loading takes too much organization to fit it all for her to cope with!) She sweeps the kitchen floor too. And doing laundry is one of her stress relief activities now. Too bad she finds clean clothes to wash again when she is stressed! Wears out the equipment and uses up the laundry detergent. Ya know what -- the cost of supplies is worth it for her to find ways for self-control.

With gd10 I have been moving a few things each time I go in there. I got to the shelves today where the dead hermit crab was shriveling up. Failed molting I believe. The remaining crab is doing just fine. No comment from gd, so little by little is the way I will continue. She has asked me to stop nagging, and I need to find the courage to do just that. What fear is my nagging responding to? Hmmmm. That she will never grow up and be capable of doing it on her own. Nagging just shuts her down. Have to find other ways to teach her!

Enabling. This has been a tough concept for me -- very filled with conflict between my head and my heart. I have learned over the past few years to accept my heart as valid and can let go of what others say that doesn't fit well with what seems to work in my life. It really is about living in community, not satisfying my individual desires. I have needed control most of my life to function. I am growing up and away from that need. This feels so good.

qcr Carol

[raytamtay3]

I hope nobody took offense to my using the term enabling.  That was just how I feel when I do things for my DD sometimes.  I completely understand others' points and it makes me sad that I've gotten to this point where I so bitter and angry that I am not willing to help DD out with anything like I use to do.  I guess it's just another failed attempt at trying something I haven't before in hope for change... .

Since we are on this subject though I'd like to share yesterdays' events, and forgive my Lollypop if I'm hijacking your post!

I came home last night and noticed DD's Easter basket was moved from her room to our kitchen island.  I was like, hmm.  That's a little strange.  So seeing as how DD wasn't home, I went in to her room and it was about 80% clean.  For a split second I thought, wow - maybe, just maybe she is beginning to realize that when things are in order our lives can appear less hectic.  Yeah than I figured it must be because she had a friend in the house.  Low and behold, she did.  She had her female friend come in to use the shower and the hung out in the house for awhile.  House rules is nobody is allowed in the house when we are not home.  And not even then now because she hasn't been following the rules.

Of course I went in this morning and it's already getting trashed since she stopped home last night to change before running out again.

[Lollypop]

Hi raytamtay3 and qcarolr

RT: no offense taken at all regarding the word enabling, it's absolutely correct that they should be doing this themselves. It's such a thin line between supporting and enabling. Hard to judge capabilities and skills.

If I try to ignore it, I allow the negative behaviour to carry on, it niggles at me and him. So my approach is: "it's really no big deal, I spend a few minutes tidying up now and then". I demonstrate how it's no effort and I know he prefers a tidy room. I emptied his bin today and I could see he's regularly using it. Yes, there were dirty clothes on the floor but there was also some in his laundry basket. I've put them in there now ready for him to wash.  If he says something I'll say "well, I know you've got a hard week ahead and thought it'd help you plus it's such a small room, best to keep on top of it. Besides your gf is over so much these days so it looks nice now."

It's great your daughter tidied up her room because it shows she can do so when motivated and, very importantly, she felt it mattered what others thought of her. I know it's a terrible situation for you at the moment and she's spending a lot of time away. My son did the same.   On the plus side, it gives her the opportunity to see how her friends live, how their family functions (or not) and gives her some space to rant to everyone about you (!). It wasn't until my BPDs left home the third time that he really missed us, saw how a "normal" family can get along easily with each other when staying with somebody else, how his own behaviours were a problem (he was asked to leave - kindly).

I'm so sorry you're all in such a high emotional state. I once described my house as "the house of the flying daggers". I'm really pleased you're feeling a bit better. Take very good care of yourself. I did exactly this 4 years ago.

I got support for myself first of all, then took control over my life by going back to college to do a course I absolutely love. I surprised them! I've made new friends too. It showed my kids that I matter, they aren't absolutely everything to me, I have my own life. I'm not saying that this is appropriate for everybody but I can't tell you how much of a positive action this has had on all of us. I share with them how hard I find it academically sometimes but persevere, I ask for their opinions and show them my work. It's helped me understand what my youngest faces at school. It's keeping me young as I interact with younger people. My priorities have shifted and everybody sees it. I can't recommend enough for parents to do something for themselves - something to put a spring in your own step and watch their faces!

QC: very wise words in your last paragraph and I'll borrow them. You're right, I'm finding my own way, testing my comfortableness with realistic expectations.

Dishwasher: we don't have a dishwasher duty and not everybody puts things in it. It goes on randomly through the day when full by me or H. If one of my sons happens to be near it I'll ask them kindly to check and empty or fill it while they are there. They never refuse, they learn where stuff goes as I sit busying myself with something else. They feel they are helping, it's a gentle reminder, I get proof they are perfectly capable. Very occasionally, I'll do a list of jobs I want doing, always done. No strict rules for us to get stressy about.

It's working for me at the moment so I'll carry on. Once it doesn't I'll re-think and change tactic.

Im off to post up another topic!