Dealing with their shame after a rage?

[Depression = 72% of members]

So as I've posted, FI's behavior has overall improved a lot over the last 5 years.  And I am trying to not make things worse, but still have trouble setting boundaries. A lot of his anger and rage stem from his own self-hatred and how he copes by trying to blame those feelings on others causing them, and I am the most convenient target for that blame shifting.

With our wedding trip in less than 30 days, I figured his outbursts would increase, and yes, they seem to have done so.  This week we have had two alone, one over his accusing me of lying about money (didn't but his memory decided I did), and the other, silly as this sounds, over not being able to find "Swim Ear", the little drops you put in your ears to dry out water from swimming.  He was ready to kick me out over swim ear not being in the last place he remembered it - I told him it was in the cabinet, neither of us could find it (it's a small bottle), and he assumed I threw it away because it's his.  He threatened to kick me out over this (house is in his name).  Guess what?  Last night, when he wasn't freaking out, I had time to go through the cabinet and found it.

I know part of this was because he had not eaten, and his rages are usually way worse if his blood sugar is low.  The next day, he was subdued, and I knew his self hatred for how he acted was active.  And part of me is like, well, you should feel bad for being a jerk, but the other part of me knows he can't handle those emotions well, and that the worse he feel about himself, the worse the next episode will be.

Anyway, I come on here a lot because writing helps me think things out and see things better, and I cannot journal anymore with any feeling of safety at all (BPD dad found my diary and photocopied it, and sent what he thought was 'juicy' stuff to all my relatives and FI's parents when I was 19 to prove I was a whore who should be left in the streets.  Since then, I've tried keeping text files, book journals, only to rip out pages and toss them cuz it just doesn't feel 'safe'. 

So sorry if I ramble a lot, I'm just feeling bad that he feels so bad inside and there is little I can do for him - I think living in BPD-land for the person with it must be a special hell that maybe we can't always see as the person with them

[isilme]

So as I've posted, FI's behavior has overall improved a lot over the last 5 years.  And I am trying to not make things worse, but still have trouble setting boundaries. A lot of his anger and rage stem from his own self-hatred and how he copes by trying to blame those feelings on others causing them, and I am the most convenient target for that blame shifting.

With our wedding trip in less than 30 days, I figured his outbursts would increase, and yes, they seem to have done so.  This week we have had two alone, one over his accusing me of lying about money (didn't but his memory decided I did), and the other, silly as this sounds, over not being able to find "Swim Ear", the little drops you put in your ears to dry out water from swimming.  He was ready to kick me out over swim ear not being in the last place he remembered it - I told him it was in the cabinet, neither of us could find it (it's a small bottle), and he assumed I threw it away because it's his.  He threatened to kick me out over this (house is in his name).  Guess what?  Last night, when he wasn't freaking out, I had time to go through the cabinet and found it.

I know part of this was because he had not eaten, and his rages are usually way worse if his blood sugar is low.  The next day, he was subdued, and I knew his self hatred for how he acted was active.  And part of me is like, well, you should feel bad for being a jerk, but the other part of me knows he can't handle those emotions well, and that the worse he feel about himself, the worse the next episode will be.

Anyway, I come on here a lot because writing helps me think things out and see things better, and I cannot journal anymore with any feeling of safety at all (BPD dad found my diary and photocopied it, and sent what he thought was 'juicy' stuff to all my relatives and FI's parents when I was 19 to prove I was a whore who should be left in the streets.  Since then, I've tried keeping text files, book journals, only to rip out pages and toss them cuz it just doesn't feel 'safe'. 

So sorry if I ramble a lot, I'm just feeling bad that he feels so bad inside and there is little I can do for him - I think living in BPD-land for the person with it must be a special hell that maybe we can't always see as the person with them

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Cloudy Days]

First of all, big hug   what your father did was pretty lousy, I can't imagine being able to write something down in comfort again. That would be pretty devastating to go through. I too use this site as sort of a journal. My problems aren't as terrible as they used to be but this site helped me get through all of them to where I am now and I feel good now.

My husband after a blow up will be the super manipulative super nice guy afterwards and it almost feels dirty now because I know he's only doing it because he feels bad about what he did. If I don't forgive him right away or go back to normal right away he will blow up again. It's a hard line to stand on because you know he feels bad but you feel bad too for what he did. Then guilt sets in because you know he feels bad and he's got problems you can't even imagine. It really puts you through the ringer as someone who loves them.

I think the best way I have handled it is to just enjoy the good parts, and when he is feeling low to validate and just try to enjoy the time I have. If you get wrapped up in their emotions, it's hard to get out of them. Detach with love comes to mind. I am an empathetic person, always have been but when you are living with someone who's emotions go up and down frequently you can't afford to go on the roller coaster with them, it will just wear you out.

[Cat Familiar]

WOW, I'm amazed at how the BPD behavioral tropes are so similar in other people's lives. I'm grateful that my husband is currently behaving himself and I'm not on the emotional roller coaster with him any more. (Fingers crossed)

I understand how the frequency of outbursts increases with external stressors, how blame shifting happens and that "loved ones" become the target, how little seemingly insignificant things get magnified and signify some huge gulf in the relationship, how when overwrought their abilities to search through their jumble of possessions becomes negligible, how hunger interferes with emotional regulation and how self hatred builds upon acting out in negative ways.

My husband is a drama queen when his blood sugar gets low. He calls it "bonking" and everything skids to a massive grinding of gears and screeching halt until he can eat something. And he is super dramatic about water in his ears. He will hop on one leg with his head tilted to the side for a minute or two. It's a humorous spectacle when he does that in public, rather than just when he's swimming at home.

I know what you mean about not feeling safe about journaling. My BPD mother frequently searched my room and opened my mail. Either she or my dad copied two suggestive letters from my boyfriend when I was in college and I found the photocopies after she died. Even then, decades later, I felt humiliated. Having your privacy violated certainly keeps one from being able to open up and journal freely.

And I totally agree that BPDland is a special kind of hell. Your last sentence "I'm just feeling bad that he feels so bad inside and there is little I can do for him" lets me know you're still onboard the codependent train. Getting off it as soon as you can is your only hope for making things better between you two. Remember the three C's: I didn't Cause it. I can't Cure it. I can't Control it. But you can control your own reaction to it.

Boundaries, boundaries, boundaries--that's your answer. It may seem cold to you after a lifetime of "wanting the best for your loved one" but I assure you that your love and concern as a codependent can appear to be controlling behavior to your fiancé. The more I've stepped away from my knee-jerk tendencies of trying to make everything OK, the better my relationship has become.   

[Cloudy Days]

Boundaries, boundaries, boundaries--that's your answer. It may seem cold to you after a lifetime of "wanting the best for your loved one" but I assure you that your love and concern as a codependent can appear to be controlling behavior to your fiancé. The more I've stepped away from my knee-jerk tendencies of trying to make everything OK, the better my relationship has become.  

I agree with this, it wasn't until I stopped picking his emotional stuff up that I finally started to find happiness for myself. When you are enmeshed in their emotions you get focused on how can I help them stop feeling this way. You can't stop it from happening, the emotions just have to ebb and flow on their own, I see it as trying to control the tides. You might just get carried out yourself if you try to stop them from happening. A better solution is to acknowledge and validate, and step out of the tide. Once I stopped trying to make everything ok, things actually started to get ok. It's very strange that, that's what needed to happen.

[isilme]

Your last sentence "I'm just feeling bad that he feels so bad inside and there is little I can do for him" lets me know you're still onboard the codependent train. Getting off it as soon as you can is your only hope for making things better between you two. Remember the three C's: I didn't Cause it. I can't Cure it. I can't Control it. But you can control your own reaction to it.

Yeah - most days I can do this and not react and when he starts freaking, the first things I tell myself are "he has aright to his feelings, so don't invalidate them, but I don't have to share them", but my own emotional resilience has been taxed, and I grew up with both parents being bi-polar/manic-depressed, basically borderline, themselves.  I was isolated by them and we had no relatives nearby, I was allowed no friends, so it was a fun house of 3 ppl, two diagnosed as having disorders and one a child, parentified into caring for those classified as adults.  Even FI states that I pretty much raised myself, and only now that friends have kids can I see how wacky all of that was.

I did have my cat.  He was awesome.  But being co-dependent is very hardwired into me.  I actively fight it, but worry I am instead just being cold - my sensitivity to other's emotions is way too high, and my response is to attempt to turn them off till I feel 'safe' - usually home alone when I can cry, rant, get it out and be done with it.  For a long time, as a teen, to feel safer I'd actually do something crazy and emulate Data from Star Trek - I know that's rally weird, but I envied Data's non-emotional state, and Spock's ability to keep his in check - growing up and sometimes with FI, showing the 'wrong' emotion could be a recipe for disaster.

Anyway, here's hoping for a lack of escalation over then next few weeks.  O_o

[Cloudy Days]

Wow, I can only imagine the coping strategies you had to come up with to survive your childhood. You've been through a lot. I think  from what you experienced as a child being in a very emotional environment and not having anyone tell you how to deal with all of those emotions, emulating Data actually makes a lot of sense. I actually can relate to the trying to just shut your emotions off, that's what I do too. When my father died I didn't really cry in front of anyone except when it very first happened and at the funeral. My husband told me that he thought he grieved more than I did, but I just chose to grieve when I was alone and not feel those feelings until I could really deal with them alone. I've cried a lot over my father, just not in front of anyone. I understand the concept of not showing your emotions to other's until you can deal with them in a safe place. I don't know if it's healthy to do, but you aren't alone. My parents weren't personality disordered but they had plenty of problems that rubbed off onto me. I often feel like I raised myself emotionally, which causes problems because you aren't suppose to do that. I too didn't realize how screwed up my childhood was until I got old enough and realized wow, that wasn't suppose to happen how it did.

I think the best thing I did was to try and focus on me, I read the book codependent no more and it really spoke volumes to me, about my childhood and why I was currently being codependent with my husband, it explained so much.

[Cat Familiar]

I often feel like I raised myself emotionally, which causes problems because you aren't suppose to do that. I too didn't realize how screwed up my childhood was until I got old enough and realized wow, that wasn't suppose to happen how it did.

I studied TV sitcoms about families to try and understand how "normal" people behave. It's odd to be a young child and realize that something is desperately wrong with your own family. (Good thing Keeping up with the Kardashians wasn't on back then!  )

[isilme]

I studied TV sitcoms about families to try and understand how "normal" people behave

I think sitcoms frustrated me because I could tell that my life was not "Family Ties"   I watched a lot of SciFi, probably for the escapist aspect of it, but luckily, also looked up the Dr. Sam Beckett and Jean-Luc Picard as role models. 

I am working on stepping back from FI's emotions, consciously.  I guess what I really, really hate is what I call "going down the rabbit hole", when his thoughts, which must be spoken out loud, start following a trend and I know that trend will just keep spiraling more and more, to a really bad place, and I want to head it off at the pass, partly because I know it really just hurts him overall, and mostly because I don't want to be dragged into a useless conversation that resolves nothing, and just repeats issues over and over, worsening with each repetition.  Taking a break is not easy when his preferred time for this is right before bed or when sitting down to eat, and I just want to eat or sleep, but he's agitated and talky.  So in this case, I am just feeling very selfish for wanting him to self-sooth and let me go to have my dinner or fall asleep instead of talking for hours about past wrongs and the current state of doom for all.  I have sleep-maintenance insomnia as it is, and so for every hour in bed, I get about 30-45 minutes of sleep.  Going to bed at 11PM, I might get about 5 hours sleep on a good night, without FI dysregulating, or other things keeping me awake.  I think I was so hyperaware as a kid, listening for the parents fighting at night, or for them to be getting ready to leave the house to get mom a shot of Demerol for her migraines and leave me alone in the house at night, I wake at every sound as an adult.  I only sleep really well at stupid times, from about 6am to noon, and 3pm to 6pm.

So I make the mistake of invalidating while trying to sooth him myself, because I am too darn tired to figure out how to enforce a boundary.  "Honey, I know you're upset but I am tired and want to sleep/eat dinner and relax" will not result in my being able to do either.  There is no where else to go in our house - it is very small.  Add to this that his emotions are far more volatile if HE needs to eat and he stops himself with a rage... .How do you set a boundary around this? 

[Cloudy Days]

I struggled for a long time with my husband and his endless theories or rants about things that didn't really do anything but upset me. For awhile he really got into conspiracy theories and doomsday stuff. I can't remember when it started but I eventually told him to stop. That the topic of doomsday or the world ending or any of that type of conversation is not something I want to talk about, ever. I would get so upset and worked up when he would bring these things up. I am actually an Atheist and he is a Christian and he believes fully in the world coming to an end. That's not something I want to hear about, I'm trying to enjoy my life. We went in together with his therapist and I brought the subject up so I could get some validation about the issue. I even said I love watching doomsday movies, because it is make believe. She did validate that it upsets me and that I shouldn't have to talk about something that upsets me, if it is not a current issue that needs to be dealt with.

It took awhile for my husband to get it, that I didn't want to talk about that kind of stuff and to be honest, it was when he was really unstable that the topics were something he would talk about. I know what you mean on the rabbit hole, I've actually read it about BPD and talk therapy. The reason they don't do well in regular talk therapy is because they just keep rambling on and on and it tends to go to a dark place which doesn't help them at all, it just ends up getting them worked up about something that happened in the past. I think they use their partners to do this too and it just goes to a dark place that you can't return from once you get there.

I also have had the problems with my husband trying to have really serious conversations right before I go to bed. His therapist calls it door knobbing, I asked her about it one time. She explained it like, he knows that you going to sleep is essentially you leaving him alone so he will try to throw up a conversation that you can't ignore. She explained it to me like having a patient end their session but on the way out they say something along the lines of wanting to kill themselves. Obviously, you wouldn't let them walk off without addressing it. For me my husband would start asking me about finances right before I would go to bed and most of the time we would get into a fight because I would drop the issue and tell him to ask me again tomorrow when I wasn't getting ready to go to bed. His mother complained that this is something he would do when he was younger.

I think at some point you are going to need to set the boundary but maybe come up with the specifics first before you give the boundary to your husband. I have been thankful for the fact that I have been able to talk to my husband's therapist about most of it.

[Cat Familiar]

Yep, my husband is also into the conspiracy theories and doomsday stuff. I think it's a product of the black and white thinking. He has a degree from an Ivy League university and is also a lawyer, so one would expect his thinking processes to be trained in such a way that he would discount crazy theories, but apparently the BPD and associated fears and insecurity allow him to override his rational thought processes.