R.E.S.P.E.C.T

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

On the topic of respect, I wanted to hear from you all about how you dealt with this.

One of the major aspects of my pending divorce revolves around respect, my apparent lack of self respect (repeatedly taking her back after she cheated), The respect my children/friends/family have for me (seeing me take her back, and losing repect for me), and the lack of my STBXBPDEW's repect for me (tell me she has lost respect for me because I have tried to make it work after her infidelities).

When I do think of things in terms of being fair and unfair, I get hung up on how unfair it seems when I was put in this incredibly painful situation where I was constantly faced with having to show that I respect myself, my marriage, my children (ie. throwing her out, asking her to leave, filing for divorce (3 times), demanding she go to rehab, etc)

vs.

Taking her back after these actions, after a time of separation (2, year long separations in our 20 yrs), after she rehabs and charms, etc.

For myself I tried to think of it in terms that I never gave in, she was adequately punished each time or so I thought and then I was love bombed with all the "we both know I cannot live without you" stuff. I would then believe I finally got all the respect back, for myself and from everyone.  I would be told by those same friends how awesome I am, how patient and loving and strong I am.

But then it would happen all over again, finally being told by her that "I was with all those guys because I dont respect you!".  I mean, logically I can see why she sees say that, it makes sense to me.  I just found it incredibly difficult to separate her "I cannot live without you" with "I dont respect you" statements, I ended up accepting that all of these things are her, the good and the bad, etc.  Even she would tell me after we would get back together after these long breakups how much she DID respect me for being strong and patient, and putting up with her.

Now, I dont even know what respect is, I would like to think this divorce is a reflection of my respect for myself, my children, my healthy respect for BPD and that which I cannot change.  But I end up feeling many times that in fact I have no respect at all, from anyone. Like, here I am this former Marine trying everything to hold this family together, which I believed was the ultimate show of respect, yet I end up with NONE. I really do resent having to be put in a position so many times having to weigh this concept of respect, of being a man, of constantly having to prove I have balls but also a heart. I think in the end, this was the most exhausting thing about the whole 20 years, ending up with zero respect while trying desperately to earn it.

Any thoughts on respect?

[Makersmarksman]

On the topic of respect, I wanted to hear from you all about how you dealt with this.

One of the major aspects of my pending divorce revolves around respect, my apparent lack of self respect (repeatedly taking her back after she cheated), The respect my children/friends/family have for me (seeing me take her back, and losing repect for me), and the lack of my STBXBPDEW's repect for me (tell me she has lost respect for me because I have tried to make it work after her infidelities).

When I do think of things in terms of being fair and unfair, I get hung up on how unfair it seems when I was put in this incredibly painful situation where I was constantly faced with having to show that I respect myself, my marriage, my children (ie. throwing her out, asking her to leave, filing for divorce (3 times), demanding she go to rehab, etc)

vs.

Taking her back after these actions, after a time of separation (2, year long separations in our 20 yrs), after she rehabs and charms, etc.

For myself I tried to think of it in terms that I never gave in, she was adequately punished each time or so I thought and then I was love bombed with all the "we both know I cannot live without you" stuff. I would then believe I finally got all the respect back, for myself and from everyone.  I would be told by those same friends how awesome I am, how patient and loving and strong I am.

But then it would happen all over again, finally being told by her that "I was with all those guys because I dont respect you!".  I mean, logically I can see why she sees say that, it makes sense to me.  I just found it incredibly difficult to separate her "I cannot live without you" with "I dont respect you" statements, I ended up accepting that all of these things are her, the good and the bad, etc.  Even she would tell me after we would get back together after these long breakups how much she DID respect me for being strong and patient, and putting up with her.

Now, I dont even know what respect is, I would like to think this divorce is a reflection of my respect for myself, my children, my healthy respect for BPD and that which I cannot change.  But I end up feeling many times that in fact I have no respect at all, from anyone. Like, here I am this former Marine trying everything to hold this family together, which I believed was the ultimate show of respect, yet I end up with NONE. I really do resent having to be put in a position so many times having to weigh this concept of respect, of being a man, of constantly having to prove I have balls but also a heart. I think in the end, this was the most exhausting thing about the whole 20 years, ending up with zero respect while trying desperately to earn it.

Any thoughts on respect?

[HurtinNW]

I think it's natural to feel if we treat others with respect they will give it back. But it just doesn't always work that way... .especially people with BPD/NPD.

I tried for years to "earn" respect from my ex. I tried to be a good role model, and lead by example. I tried warm humor. I tried arguing (THAT didn't go well), I tried explaining, I tried asking. None of it worked. He also was someone who would tell me he couldn't live without me, and yet the way he treated me was he despised me. Zero respect for my feelings, my wants and needs. Zero respect for me as a person, and zero respect for my kids.

It took me a long time to realize that he doesn't understand respect. He understands fawning after those he admires, in a plastic, superficial way. He understands play-acting what looks like respect but is not.

I believe real respect is something that only comes when we develop the ability to look outside ourselves and our wants. Real respect is when we set aside any personal motives and treat the other person with regard. Not because they "earned" it but because everyone deserves to be treated with regard. Respect is also us taking personal responsibility for our actions. If we respect someone we don't mistreat them, and if we do, we own up to it and make repairs. Respect goes hand in hand with empathy.

People with BPD/NPD can't or won't take personal responsibility for their behaviors. I believe my ex treats others with disdain, imperiousness and calculation because he lacks any real sense of accountability. How can you respect others when you don't feel accountable to them or for yourself? For my ex the entire world revolves around him. His feelings, his wants, his needs. If he is angry then the world deserves it. If he is sad then the world is grey. Other people are like objects in a way: he cannot feel them or truly see them. This is why, like your ex, he could say he admired me one moment and be treating me like doo the next. It's also why he projected on to me, like your ex. Your ex is blaming you for her actions. That is classic BPD. Her infidelities were her choice and had nothing to do with your actions.

I keep asking myself, why do I care what this person thinks of me? Why is it I put myself in harm's way trying to earn the respect of someone who treated me so badly? Those are the questions for me. I made his treatment and opinion of me so important. For me I know this goes back to my own family history. I didn't lose respect for myself, but I am looking closely at myself.

That said, I lost respect for my ex. I still respect him as a human being, but he's not high on my list of people I admire.

Respect is funny, isn't it? Some of the people who act the most entitled to it are those who treat others without any at all.

[Makersmarksman]

I think it's natural to feel if we treat others with respect they will give it back. But it just doesn't always work that way... .especially people with BPD/NPD.

I tried for years to "earn" respect from my ex. I tried to be a good role model, and lead by example. I tried warm humor. I tried arguing (THAT didn't go well), I tried explaining, I tried asking. None of it worked. He also was someone who would tell me he couldn't live without me, and yet the way he treated me was he despised me. Zero respect for my feelings, my wants and needs. Zero respect for me as a person, and zero respect for my kids.

It took me a long time to realize that he doesn't understand respect. He understands fawning after those he admires, in a plastic, superficial way. He understands play-acting what looks like respect but is not.

I believe real respect is something that only comes when we develop the ability to look outside ourselves and our wants. Real respect is when we set aside any personal motives and treat the other person with regard. Not because they "earned" it but because everyone deserves to be treated with regard. Respect is also us taking personal responsibility for our actions. If we respect someone we don't mistreat them, and if we do, we own up to it and make repairs. Respect goes hand in hand with empathy.

People with BPD/NPD can't or won't take personal responsibility for their behaviors. I believe my ex treats others with disdain, imperiousness and calculation because he lacks any real sense of accountability. How can you respect others when you don't feel accountable to them or for yourself? For my ex the entire world revolves around him. His feelings, his wants, his needs. If he is angry then the world deserves it. If he is sad then the world is grey. Other people are like objects in a way: he cannot feel them or truly see them. This is why, like your ex, he could say he admired me one moment and be treating me like doo the next. It's also why he projected on to me, like your ex. Your ex is blaming you for her actions. That is classic BPD. Her infidelities were her choice and had nothing to do with your actions.

I keep asking myself, why do I care what this person thinks of me? Why is it I put myself in harm's way trying to earn the respect of someone who treated me so badly? Those are the questions for me. I made his treatment and opinion of me so important. For me I know this goes back to my own family history. I didn't lose respect for myself, but I am looking closely at myself.

That said, I lost respect for my ex. I still respect him as a human being, but he's not high on my list of people I admire.

Respect is funny, isn't it? Some of the people who act the most entitled to it are those who treat others without any at all.

Very well said

[Lucky Jim]

Hey triple M, Don't beat yourself up!  You did the best you could with the tools you had in an incredibly stressful situation over a long period of time.  Concerning respect for yourself, I would suggest that the most important thing is learning to love and accept yourself, just the way you are.  We're all human and make mistakes.  That's OK.  Embrace who you are.  Concerning respect from your Ex, that's something over which you have no control so I suggest you let it go.  You'll never convince her otherwise, anyway, so why bother?  It doesn't matter, in my view.  Concerning the respect of children/friends/family, I suggest you let them form their own opinions.  They probably have more than an inkling about what you've been through.  I found that, after my divorce from my BPDxW, my real friends were still there and happy to rebuild our friendships.  Same for my family.  Sure, I lost some so-called friends, but so what?  They weren't really friends after all.  What remains is what's important, so I suggest you start from there.

LuckyJim

[Makersmarksman]

Hey triple M, Don't beat yourself up!  You did the best you could with the tools you had in an incredibly stressful situation over a long period of time.  Concerning respect for yourself, I would suggest that the most important thing is learning to love and accept yourself, just the way you are.  We're all human and make mistakes.  That's OK.  Embrace who you are.  Concerning respect from your Ex, that's something over which you have no control so I suggest you let it go.  You'll never convince her otherwise, anyway, so why bother?  It doesn't matter, in my view.  Concerning the respect of children/friends/family, I suggest you let them form their own opinions.  They probably have more than an inkling about what you've been through.  I found that, after my divorce from my BPDxW, my real friends were still there and happy to rebuild our friendships.  Same for my family.  Sure, I lost some so-called friends, but so what?  They weren't really friends after all.  What remains is what's important, so I suggest you start from there.

LuckyJim

You are right and many of  our close friends have more than an inkling.  Hate to see so many people taking sides and I know she feels ganged up on,  but I know what I have to do.

[Sunfl0wer]

Interesting thoughts in this thread.

I felt my behavior for protection and advocacy for the sake of 'our family,' (mostly my SD and him) would earn me respect for my role as a step mom.  There were times it did have this affect.  Yet other times when he felt threatened, he 'forgot' his admiration to me.  (Feelings=facts)

I imagine for persons who compartmentalize others identities, that to maintain an outlook of general respect is challenging when we are being painted black.

Respect was a huge issue throughout.  Mainly respecting that my reality and experiences could exist near his and be allowed to differ.