In need of advice due to warped view on family...

[MiserableDaughter]

Hello,

I need advice. I am 37, married for 13 years, and have a 4 year old. Due to my uBPD mother, I grew up with a very bad impression of extended family. We are Indian (but I was born here) and my mother constantly put in my head that Indian inlaws are only out to rip you off. They just want money blah blah. I grew up hearing that and still do.

My husband's parents are in India, and are not wealthy at all. They went through a financial crisis about 15 years ago and restarted their lives after age 60. My father in law is 75, and mother in law 66. I always clam up when my husband wants to help them financially because I feel like I'm being taken advantage of... .

Recently, my husband mentioned to me that his dad's very old car keeps breaking down and his dad said he will buy himself a new one in maybe 9 months when he can afford it more. He drives to work and has back issues and walks with a cane. My husband said he felt bad hearing his dad and that he couldn't afford it and wants to help. Cost would be about $12,000. So I suggested that perhaps we can pay for half. Keep in mind, we can afford it and this is not by any means a financial strain on us, and a very average car would be bought, not like a BMW or anything. I feel like I did the right thing in agreeing we should help. But yet, my mother's voice keeps nagging at me feeling like I am getting taken advantage of by my husband and inlaws. My inlaws have overall been nice to me and barely ever asked us for any help. We have helped on occasion, but nothing huge.

I have a warped perspective and get confused on how to handle these things. My husband and my relationship is all messed up due to past crap with my mom amongst other things so I just get very confused in these things. I was also born here, so am confused on cultural things too. Advice on whether I did right thing? Someone be a real mother/father to me and give me advice! Thanks!

[Notwendy]

I'll give this a try. People with BPD tend to make sweeping statements- generalizations and when you hear these kinds of things you know, logically that they are not true. Words like "always" "never" are often due to black and white thinking. Statements such as "people in an ethnic group are all_____" can't be true because you know that people are different, they make up their own minds about things. It is hard to think clearly when your mother's ideas are in your head, but with your own heart and mind, you can discern what is true.

Some people might rip you off and some will not. How do you know? It's hard to know what someone else is thinking but you know people by their actions. Hard working, honest, caring in laws are probably not planning to rip you off.

Try to think of this like this: when you help someone, and you believe it is a good thing to do, then the helping is for you, even if it benefits him. In any culture, it is a generally a good thing to help a parent in need. When is it wrong? It is probably wrong to help others who will not take steps to help themselves. It isn't a good thing to enable people to be dysfunctional. It also isn't a good thing to impoverish yourself in order to help others.

So, your in laws are basically caring people, hard working, and fell on hard times. Your FIL is willing to wait to afford a car, but he is not in the best of shape. Your H wants to do something to make his life easier. This is a caring thing for your H to do. It not only helps your in laws, but your H gets to do something caring for his parents. You also can afford it. This sounds like a good thing.

Genuine kindness is a good thing in any culture.   

[enlighten me]

One thing I found useful when dealinh with my exs is to ask myself would I do it for someone else?

By this I mean that I take out the fact that it is my ex and look at it from a less biased perspective. It has been good for me to help maintain boundaries. It is also good for not imposing boundaries that dont need to be there.

Ask yourself if it was your mum that needed it would you do it for her? Ok maybe not your mum as an example but another close relative.

communications is the downfall of many a relationship.  Perhaps explaining to your husband why you reacted the way you did may help. The fact that you have had a lifetime of being told this is why you have been reluctant. Explaining this may be a lightbulb moment for your husband and he may be a little more understanding.

[MiserableDaughter]

So in this situation, I actually reacted very nicely. Cause I like my father in law. He is a sweet man, and I want him in a safe car... .Especially in India where being stranded at night is not as safe. So somewhere I felt like it was right thing and also, I think suggesting half as opposed to whole amount was reasonable.

In past, I have always reacted negatively for two reasons. One, it's been ingrained in me. Two, I felt that my husband pushed it on me whether I agreed or not and made me feel guilty when I didn't. This time, he genuinely asked and said if I said no, it's fine. Now I honestly do know he would be resentful if I said no. But frankly, I think I would kind of be a terrible person to not help if I can... .

My mother only thought of how it would benefit her if she helped someone... .And if she would get credit etc etc. So I've never truly witnessed unselfish thinking from my mother when it came to family. So this is all new to me.

But when you ask, what would I do if my own parents... .Well, yes I would definitely help regardless of my relationship. And I would suggest the same thing, doing half. So in that way I would have dealt with it the same... .

So in that way, I guess I did the right thing ... .But in my mind, because of my husband and my old issues I'm like "I hope he realizes how nice I am! What do I get out of this? He's never done that for MY family!" All these stupid negative things my mother would say... .It's very tough when you have grown up that way... .

[GaGrl]

There are strong cultural aspects at play here.  I get it.  My DH's ex (uBPD/NPD) married him largely due to his ability to get her to the U.S. and fulfill her family obligations to help support them.  So they had to negotiate a reasonable level of support that went back to her family.  Over the years, they even built a new house for them, paid tuition for children, and adopted one of the nieces. So the support was not insubstantial.

You have a great deal of "self-talk" that goes on that is sourced from your mother.  You know it is not correct or rational -- that is admirable.

I can not imagine that your marriage, as fragile as it is, would be improved by blocking your husband's ability to help his family.  My 2 cents worth... .

Do you think this is a good topic to discuss with your therapist?  It seems rooted in other issues that you still need to resolve regarding your mother, her influence, and your ability to live nearer to her in future.

[MiserableDaughter]

I have spoken go to my therapist about this. She reminds me that it's my mother's voice and not mine. But it gets confusing. I don't want to be her. I don't want to be like her... .And I find myself doing it sometimes which scares the daylights out of me!

I will never live "close" to my mother again. The closest im getting is the 500 miles away... .Even that is frightening. But she won't be in my life on a weekly basis. Also, my mom always take negatively about my inlaws which has also messed with my head... .

And you are right. Stopping him from helping won't improve anything. He also made a big improvement in the way he approached me. He didn't "tell me" that that this is what we are doing and that's it. He genuinely asked for advice. If I said no, it would have just made him never ask again or just retreat. And I guess I would have no reason to say no, except I'm just being mean.

[Panda39]

Be sure to tell your Husband you appreciate how he approached this with you.  Reinforce and encourage that kind of good approach! 

And for what it's worth I think you did the right thing helping your husband's parents, kindness is a good thing   

Panda39

[Naughty Nibbler]

MiserableDaughter:

You made a good decision and should be proud!  You introduced a compromise and it sounds like a win-win situation.

Sometimes it is hard to get rid of the script in our head (from parents, etc.).  It can get complicated in a marriage.  If you weren't married, your husband would have just given his father the money.  Your husband did the right thing in talking to you about wanting to help his father.  Your father-in-law sounds like a good man.

Don't feel bad that you may have struggled over the decision.  The important thing is that you worked through the negative script in you head and won.

[GaGrl]

This is an overall win.  It was a kind, loving and generous action made by mutual decision. And just the fact your level of awareness and intimidation from your mother is front and center is a very positive step.  Celebrate good things happening!

[MiserableDaughter]

Thank you for your responses, everyone. I appreciate it, and I feel better about my decision as well. I overall feel good about it... .It's hard to gauge when all you grew up hearing is how awful Indian inlaws are. Somewhere, it does get in your head... .

[Fie]

Hello MiserableDaughter,

It is so difficult to unlearn things that our parents taught us. I think we can all relate there. Maybe you can try to talk back to this voice in your head, when it arises ? Something in the line of : 'Ok there you are again, little voice, that's nice of you to try to warn me against Indian inlaws. But you know, you probably don't realize, but the thing you are saying is not true. You are copying it because your mum told you that, when you were little'. Just an idea.

But in my mind, because of my husband and my old issues I'm like "I hope he realizes how nice I am! What do I get out of this? He's never done that for MY family!"

I think it's very normal that you think like that. We all want  to be seen by others as good  people  :-)
We all hope people will notice when we do something good.
If those thoughts bother you, maybe  you can tell yourself it's a good thing just to do your duty in life (I don't mean your duty is helping your inlaws. Duty can be  anything from going to work, raising your children, walk the dog, ... .), without thinking of the fruits of your action. It takes some practise, but after a while,  you just don't need that positive affirmation from others as much anymore.

[MiserableDaughter]

Thank you. I should also add in my other reason for paranoia. My husband lied to me about money he had spent on his folks about a year ago and we have Ahuja blowout. In that case, my mom's voice was almost proven true. He apoologized and said would never happen again. But I think I lost that trust. So it's a combo of her voice, and the fact it was proven right in the past... .

[Notwendy]

One thing we have to work on is our own dysfunctional thinking in our relationships. Because of BPD mom, I brought all kinds of stories into mine. Our ways of thinking about things may have been relevant in our families but may cause problem in our marriages.

So, your H sneaked money to his parents. Yes, I agree it is upsetting to have a spouse make a large financial decision behind your back. I think couples have to work these things out. Some decisions are spousal decisions and yet, each person needs to have the freedom to make decisions on their own. This also depends on budget. If my H gave his parents a gift, or a small amount of money, that wouldn't be a big deal. I don't need to know that. A large sum, I would hope he would speak to me about, and I would do the same for him.

I think people need to adjust to marriage .Your H may have been used to making money decisions on his own. So he did it, and realized it was a mistake. The fact that he spoke to you about it this time demonstrates that -

He heard you
He considered you
He changed his actions.

IE- he isn't your mother. He didn't prove what your mother said was right. He made a mistake. Now, when considering giving money to his parents, he changed his actions.

What your mother said can not be logically correct. No single group of people all have the same characteristics. Your H and his family may share some cultural things in common with other members of their culture, but they are individual people. See them for who they are.

Does it make sense to always trust what your mother says is true? Sometimes she might be right, but sometimes she might be wrong.

He considered you. Can you meet him halfway and trust him?

[Fie]

It could also be that he lied to avoid trouble with you about this. Maybe he knew very well it would cause scenes and fights between the two of you, so he hid it ... .not nice for you, but understandable somehow. Do you think you could maybe try to see it from his point of view ? He probably felt in a catch 22 because he wanted to help his parents ?

[MiserableDaughter]

Thanks. Yes,he was nervous about my reaction. I know that. It's very hard for me because that had turned into a giant fight last year where he tried to leave, telling me to go to my "crazy family." I know he just kind of exploded... .But it's hard to trust again. I know he asked me this time... .I'm trying to tell myself that. And I'm reminding myself it's a kind thing to do. And they are his parents after all. My husband is primary breadwinner and makes good money so he should be allowed. My other issue is my mother had complete control on the money. She was a housewife and dad was primary but he got an allowance. My moms always told me to keep control on the money. So I have all these mixed voices in my head.

[Notwendy]

It's great that you are posting here to help with the influence of disordered parents. Your mother sounds similar to mine. She controlled all the money in the family, although Dad earned it.

You know that having a dysfunctional FOO can influence our relationships. I too thought that getting away from my mother would solve my issues with her, but to truly get past this- and break the cycle of dysfunction, I had to work to unlearn some of the coping mechanisms I grew up with. These worked for us as kids, because our family was dysfunctional,  but when we take them into other relationships- they don't work well.

We tend to choose partners who "match "us, and/or who can bring these things out in us- so that we can work on them. Eventually, I saw issues that upset me in my marriage as clues of what I needed to work on. You did this with the money to the in laws issue- it brought out things from your FOO that may not be true in the case of your H and his parents.

Money is one of those big things that couples tend to argue over. In a good relationship, issues can be worked out. I think this is the case for many disagreements- every one has them- it is how they work them out that can be a bigger issue. I've known couples who can't seem to resolve seemingly small issues, and then seen couples work out seemingly giant ones. How they work things out seems to me to play a larger role than the actual issue.

When something triggers us emotionally, we aren't being rational at the moment. When we start attaching our own stories to the picture, then we react to them and not the person/issue in the moment. The drama triangle might get into play here, and we start "defending" ourselves, unknowingly hurting the other person.

Money can be a big issue between people as how we manage it can be emotional as well as rational. Also, since no two people are alike, and a couple will bring their FOO's style of managing money into a marriage, how to manage their money is something they will need to work out between them.

My H is very different from my mother, so it was a shock to me when we seemed to be relating to each other in a similar way to my parents. ( and his parents). I didn't want to have either of our FOO's marriages! But it was almost unconscious how we seemed to duplicate them. Money was a big one. My in laws are controlling and my H assumed that since he made the money, he would control it. That isn't a good way to be married- each person needs to have input into major decisions, and some autonomy as well with some spending money. But my H didn't know any different so he did what his FOO did. Since my mother tightly controlled money in my FOO, this was very triggering. I too struggled with the idea of- my H isn't my mother, but why do I feel like he is my mother sometimes? Some of this is his personality traits, but some of this is that I was triggered by his behavior- and it went both ways- I triggered him as well.

When your H gave money to his parents without asking you, that was a mistake. But what was your part in it? Were you so reactive to this that he didn't think he could talk to you? I was walking on eggshells in my marriage to keep from upsetting my H, but if you ask him, he would tell you that he was walking on eggshells around me. We both have easily triggered parents and learned to do this as children.

But this time, your H did something different, and if you can reinforce this, and not react negatively, it might lead to some good changes. In the long run, working to let go of the dysfunctional ideas learned from our FOO's can help all our relationships.

[Fie]

Reflecting on your question, it came to me that I have had a slightly similar issue.
As a kid my parents never wanted to hang up my drawings. They always had this lame excuse about 'not wanting to damage  the wall by making holes in it'. They could have pasted some drawings on the tiles of the kitchen wall, without damaging anything, but also this was not allowed. Walls were for paintings from real painters. Of course now I realize it was just about not caring  about me nor my paintings.
But I do realize I took this attitude of 'not wanting to damage the walls' in adulthood. When my daughter was still little I never hung pictures of her on the wall. But than it came to me that my attitude did not make sense and was just copied from my parents. So I started with a middle  solution : hanging pictures on the fridge or on the doors, where I did not have to make holes.
Now I care less about  the walls. I am happy my daughter makes drawings for me and I am enjoying this phase of childhood that will unfortunately pass so quickly  :-)

Maybe you might decide to also actively start working on this and even take some initiative  yourself. Like, in the beginning, I only hesitantely hung pictures when my child was asking me to. After some time I started hanging them myself, and with every picture I hung I could notice my resistance to it was dissapearing more and more. Maybe it could be an option to start asking your husband sometimes if he thinks his parents are still fine and don't need your (financial) help. You might feel a very strong resistance, but slowly slowly, this will probably go away. And your relationship will probably improve also. You might even consider telling your husband you are doing it reluctantly, but willing to change this and therefore taking  action acitively. You might be surprised by his reaction to this.

[Notwendy]

The money issue was a learning curve and full of emotions for us. My father was not allowed to give me money without Mom's approval. This could be anything from a little amount to college tuition ( which she would change her mind on). We didn't lack for food or shelter but we were overstretched financially due to Mom's over spending on luxuries and we had to compromise. So, there would be no money for things we wanted while Mom had a closet full of designer shoes and clothes. The message was clear: Mom's  luxuries are more important than your college tuition.

This discrepancy of rich/poor in the same home was a tough one emotionally. So when my H, who came into the marriage decided that as wage earner, he could buy things and I couldn't, this triggered me to no end. I was the designated home maker, child care provider and so he had more earning power than I did. My "job" didn't come with a paycheck. The reality was, he was not my mother, he provided for us but was very naive about money in relationships, and not fully aware of how this affected me, considering how I was raised.

It took marriage counseling to get him to see that what he thought was the right way to deal with money in a marriage was not good for the marriage. It took MC getting me to unravel all those feelings of being worth less from my FOO to get past seeing things though that filter.