False(?) accusations of emotional abuse

[Depression = 72% of members]

Hi everyone 

KC Sunshine's thread reminded me of how reading about emotional abuse can be really upsetting to me, because my ex falsely accused me of doing most of those things.

She had an emotional affair and then accused me of not letting her have friends, refused to listen to my concerns and then got mad when I mentioned something in front of other people and embarrassed her, etc. I definitely could have handled a lot of these issues better, but I am also very sure that I was NOT abusive. I responded in counterproductive ways to her various disordered behaviors a lot of the time before I recognized what was going on, and I honestly regret the pain that caused her... .but I still believe the fundamental problem was her disorder. And I did listen when she raised concerns, worked very hard to identify the grains of truth, and learned how to do better.

Or when I told her at the end of the relationship that she has BPD and that colors her perception of how I treat her, she'd say something like "it's abusive to minimize my concerns by accusing me of being crazy." On paper, yes, that is on most lists of things that are emotionally abusive. But at the same time, she actually DOES have a diagnosed disorder that dramatically distorts her perception of how other people treat her. And I do believe that the false accusations, insisting I had to apologize for saying something that I just didn't say, etc were her emotionally abusing me. Maybe not intentionally, but that was the effect.

I just picked out a selection that I think could commonly come up in this kind of situation:

- making victim think she/he is stupid, or crazy
- suggested involvement with other women or men
- inappropriate expression of jealousy
- pressuring victim
- treating victim as a child
- holding grudges and not really forgiving
- making victim feel guilty
- overpowering victim's emotions
- starting arguments
- blame the victim for things
- bringing up past issues
- disbelieving victim
- turning the situation against the victim

What if she does something egregious and then never validates my feelings about it or genuinely apologizes? That's going to lead to me apparently holding a grudge, not forgiving, and bringing it up again to make her feel guilty. (We had this problem a lot where she'd mutter "I'm sorry" in a distant, almost dissociative state and then get mad at me for continuing to ask for a real acknowledgement of how she'd hurt me.) Or even if she does apologize genuinely, is she allowed to put a time limit on how long I can be upset about it?

Or controlling and treating as a child... .if she doesn't take her meds and I'm the one who has to hide the sharp objects and call 911 when she's suicidal from withdrawal, it's totally natural for me to start reminding her to take the meds. Or if she repeatedly causes chaos in her life and uses that as an excuse to mistreat me, it's natural for me to try to intervene and stop the chaos. I learned more about boundaries and resumed letting her make her own mistakes by the end of the relationship, but I also believe that this was not "emotional abuse" but rather an understandable reaction to a difficult situation.

Does anyone else have a similar reaction to descriptions of "emotional abuse"? How do you tell the difference between actual emotional abuse and false accusations that themselves are abusive? Is it okay for me to believe that I'm a fundamentally good and healthy person and it was my ex's disorder causing these problems?

[thisagain]

Hi everyone 

KC Sunshine's thread reminded me of how reading about emotional abuse can be really upsetting to me, because my ex falsely accused me of doing most of those things.

She had an emotional affair and then accused me of not letting her have friends, refused to listen to my concerns and then got mad when I mentioned something in front of other people and embarrassed her, etc. I definitely could have handled a lot of these issues better, but I am also very sure that I was NOT abusive. I responded in counterproductive ways to her various disordered behaviors a lot of the time before I recognized what was going on, and I honestly regret the pain that caused her... .but I still believe the fundamental problem was her disorder. And I did listen when she raised concerns, worked very hard to identify the grains of truth, and learned how to do better.

Or when I told her at the end of the relationship that she has BPD and that colors her perception of how I treat her, she'd say something like "it's abusive to minimize my concerns by accusing me of being crazy." On paper, yes, that is on most lists of things that are emotionally abusive. But at the same time, she actually DOES have a diagnosed disorder that dramatically distorts her perception of how other people treat her. And I do believe that the false accusations, insisting I had to apologize for saying something that I just didn't say, etc were her emotionally abusing me. Maybe not intentionally, but that was the effect.

I just picked out a selection that I think could commonly come up in this kind of situation:

- making victim think she/he is stupid, or crazy
- suggested involvement with other women or men
- inappropriate expression of jealousy
- pressuring victim
- treating victim as a child
- holding grudges and not really forgiving
- making victim feel guilty
- overpowering victim's emotions
- starting arguments
- blame the victim for things
- bringing up past issues
- disbelieving victim
- turning the situation against the victim

What if she does something egregious and then never validates my feelings about it or genuinely apologizes? That's going to lead to me apparently holding a grudge, not forgiving, and bringing it up again to make her feel guilty. (We had this problem a lot where she'd mutter "I'm sorry" in a distant, almost dissociative state and then get mad at me for continuing to ask for a real acknowledgement of how she'd hurt me.) Or even if she does apologize genuinely, is she allowed to put a time limit on how long I can be upset about it?

Or controlling and treating as a child... .if she doesn't take her meds and I'm the one who has to hide the sharp objects and call 911 when she's suicidal from withdrawal, it's totally natural for me to start reminding her to take the meds. Or if she repeatedly causes chaos in her life and uses that as an excuse to mistreat me, it's natural for me to try to intervene and stop the chaos. I learned more about boundaries and resumed letting her make her own mistakes by the end of the relationship, but I also believe that this was not "emotional abuse" but rather an understandable reaction to a difficult situation.

Does anyone else have a similar reaction to descriptions of "emotional abuse"? How do you tell the difference between actual emotional abuse and false accusations that themselves are abusive? Is it okay for me to believe that I'm a fundamentally good and healthy person and it was my ex's disorder causing these problems?

[eprogeny]

Does anyone else have a similar reaction to descriptions of "emotional abuse"? How do you tell the difference between actual emotional abuse and false accusations that themselves are abusive? Is it okay for me to believe that I'm a fundamentally good and healthy person and it was my ex's disorder causing these problems?

I have never been accused of emotionally abusing someone, but I have been emotionally abused.  And I can definitely say that the relationship you've described was not healthy - for either of you.  It sounds a lot like you both compounded each other into a negative cycle.

As for what is and what isn't emotional abuse, I think it comes down to the "why" of the accusation.  If either of you feels like you were abused - actually feels so - then it really doesn't matter whether or not the other person is guilty of it, because the consequences are being felt either way.  If, on the other hand, the accusation is made from a defensive posture, or as a deflection, or even as way to cause the other to feel like an abuser (irrespective of if they are one) then I would have to question the validity of the accusation.

It is never appropriate to minimize someone else's emotions.  Doing so is a hallmark of dysfunction, if not narcissism.  At the very least it is an invalidation of someone's sovereign being, and that is never anyone's job to do inside of a relationship.  All emotion is valid even if the foundations for them are not. 

If your partner cannot be reasonable, or you cannot when in the relationship, then get out the relationship and don't look back.  Neither of you are healthy for the other.

[hope2727]

Best site I ever found for understanding abuse including emotional. Takes awhile to explore but well worth the effort.

www.abuseandrelationships.org/Content/Behaviors/victim_role.html

[fromheeltoheal]

Hey TA-

Or when I told her at the end of the relationship that she has BPD and that colors her perception of how I treat her, she'd say something like "it's abusive to minimize my concerns by accusing me of being crazy."

You didn't say she was crazy, you said she has a personality disorder, one she is responsible for managing, and accepting responsibility for their behaviors is very difficult for borderlines because it triggers shame, so in her head you were asking her to feel ashamed, unacceptable, so it has to be your fault, so label it abusive.

And I do believe that the false accusations, insisting I had to apologize for saying something that I just didn't say, etc were her emotionally abusing me. Maybe not intentionally, but that was the effect.

Absolutely that's abusive, insisting you take responsibility for something you didn't do, although the motivation was not to abuse you, it was to not feel shame the only way she knew how.

How do you tell the difference between actual emotional abuse and false accusations that themselves are abusive?

There is no difference, mostly because of the way you felt.  What was not happening was open, honest communication and mutual vulnerability, with an emphasis on resolving whatever it was so the relationship would be preserved and probably strengthened.  Of course if a borderline were to level with you about what she was really thinking and feeling, accept responsibility, and feel ashamed, you'd see the "real her" and leave, abandonment, the biggest fear.  So she had to work it, real was not an option.

Is it okay for me to believe that I'm a fundamentally good and healthy person and it was my ex's disorder causing these problems?

It's okay if you say so, and stop at the first part; you are a fundamentally good and healthy person.  If that's true and you know it, it will resurface, starting with choosing to believe it, and then looking for new references to support it.  Someone with a mental illness can do a real number on our self-esteem if we're in it with them and emotionally enmeshed, if we let what they think matter, and after we've removed them from our lives we get to start taking our power back again, one day at a time, looking for references, evidence, that you are a good and healthy person, and she will reemerge, stronger and wiser.

Take care of you!

[thisagain]

Thanks for the thoughts, everyone!

HTH, what gets me was that I tried SO HARD to do the "open, honest communication and vulnerability." The dysfunctional responses happened only after months of her rejecting those efforts.

I regret the way I let her push me into acting, and I know I could have chosen different responses that would have been better for me and for the relationship. But I definitely didn't want to make her feel abused/controlled/etc, and I don't think a healthy reasonable person would have felt that way. Plus she was never consistent or open enough for me to know if there was really an ongoing problem or if she's just raging and tossing out whatever insult she can think of.

It just still bugs me when I read something like that, and it reminds me more about the things she accused me of, rather than the things she did to me. Maybe the problem is that we want a black-and-white set of criteria (if someone makes you feel X it is abuse) when really it's more complicated than that... .and there were a whole lot of factors making her feel that way that had nothing to do with me.

Anyways. Thanks for listening to me ramble. 

[fromheeltoheal]

HTH, what gets me was that I tried SO HARD to do the "open, honest communication and vulnerability." The dysfunctional responses happened only after months of her rejecting those efforts.

Yeah, me too, although it was never mutual and just kept getting worse, so I left, abandoned her in her head.  I lost, she lost, per usual the only winner was the disorder.  Sad, but it is what it is.

I regret the way I let her push me into acting, and I know I could have chosen different responses that would have been better for me and for the relationship.

You can regret it for a little while, and then realize that you were making decisions and reacting in conditions of great emotional stress, and you did your best, given the circumstances.  One of the gifts of these relationships is we get a very good look at ourselves under stress, and that has a way of exposing things we may decide we can now work on, now that the stress has ended.  And that is all upside, on the way to our amazing futures.

[thisagain]

You can regret it for a little while, and then realize that you were making decisions and reacting in conditions of great emotional stress, and you did your best, given the circumstances.  One of the gifts of these relationships is we get a very good look at ourselves under stress, and that has a way of exposing things we may decide we can now work on, now that the stress has ended.  And that is all upside, on the way to our amazing futures.

Thanks, that's a good point. I learned a lot and know I wouldn't make the same mistakes again. The emotional-abuse stuff just hits a nerve. Obviously something like hitting her would have been 100% wrong no matter what kind of heinous BPD acting-out preceded the hitting... .but emotional abuse is so much less concrete, and more about how the victim feels. And she felt like a victim most of the time regardless of what actually happened to her. I mean, one time a happy Golden Retriever jumped on her to say hello and she accused it of punching her.

Maybe I've gleaned all the truth I can from her accusations and might as well forget about the rest... .It just still hurts that I contributed at all to making her feel that way.

[Moselle]

and there were a whole lot of factors making her feel that way that had nothing to do with me.

What a great topic. I can empathise and relate to the absolute identity crisis that a pwBPD can cause in us. Their distortions about us seem so plausible sometimes.

It's best not to take any of their opinions as having any basis in reality. Although we do have cognitive distortions about the world ourselves, these are best discussed and handled in therapy ( or at CODA) by a qualified psychologist familiar with borderline and it's nuances.

As FHTH points out, a borderline's obsessive avoidance of shame or the truth, leads them down a path of pathological lies or distortions about us. It's not clear to me if this is deliberate or unconscious on their part, however it does require a deliberate and conscious decision by us not to believe their distortions and to actively develop self awareness and a healthy view of ourselves.

You are right. Her feelings have very little to do with you. Her distortions about you are a psychological defense mechanism, to avoid having to face the intensity of those feelings.

[fromheeltoheal]

Remember TA, a pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships characterized by alternating between extremes of idealization and devaluation, affective instability due to a marked reactivity of mood , and inappropriate, intense anger are three official traits of the disorder.  And we were in the middle of that crap.  Labeling something abuse doesn't really fit when the whole thing is emotional chaos.  And it's abuse if we feel abused and it's not resolved to our satisfaction.  And a borderline will always feel abused, for a number of convenient reasons, reasons that "feel better", whether it's true or not.

[woundedPhoenix]

Hi ThisAgain. This is really touching the hearth of what it means to be in a BPD relationship i guess.

I still havent figured out how a BPD internally is able to get to the point where they are able to build up massive anger and frustration inside of them, especially to those closest and those that care about them deeply.

Lets just say that they have been dissappointed by everyone in their early lifes, and continue to expect and project that in their closest attachments, not really helped by a twisted perception of reality.

But you reach the point where their low selfesteem, anger and frustration switches from being internalised as self-hate and it is now totally aimed at you.

And for whatever reason they start to see themselves as the victim that needs to defend itself against you, even if you did not really do anything to deserve it.

they do harsh things and really test for all your inner weaknesses and destroy all the dreams you may have had to hurt you.

But... .

The moment you counterreact in any normal way to defend yourself even in any healthy way... .you are the abuser.


as my ex used to say many times on such occasion "you are just proving my point".

What she didn't understand though was that she put all her energy into making sure that point got proven one way or another, by her own behaviour, aimed at viciously yanking my chains until i would eventually snap.

And it happened, as everybody has a breaking point where they start to fight back. But even then my reaction was nowhere near abuse.

But they will make it into that, as they somehow cannot find rest until you become an abuser or toxic or whatever, so they can cast off their own internal shame and blame.

[Zinnia21]

Don't worry, you are surely correct if you sense that you were not abusive and that her perceptions were wrongly coloured. You know this in your heart of hearts, as a balanced and loving person.
It is likely you are still suffering from the effects of the false accusations, in some cases it seems the effects of this run very deep.

I've also suffered at times from that feeling of being blamed by my ex, during and after the r/s. the after effects are huge!

The list of abuses you've highlighted are very real, yes it's all abuse, whether they intend it that way or not. And it surely is a mind game of the highest order when someone is emotionally abusive, but then tells you that YOU were the abusive one or berates you for having a healthy response to their abuse. It's blame upon blame upon blame. But notice how no one is doing the blaming except for them... ?
You were probably trying to problem solve, but being sent in a painful circular argument.
I feel your pain! 
Stay strong and know you did the best you could with a very confused and changeable person 

[Zinnia21]

Does anyone else have a similar reaction to descriptions of "emotional abuse"? How do you tell the difference between actual emotional abuse and false accusations that themselves are abusive? Is it okay for me to believe that I'm a fundamentally good and healthy person and it was my ex's disorder causing these problems?

Yes, it's totally ok for you to believe in yourself here. Don't dig too deep to try to understand what was false or real. Go with your gut feeling, and don't over think it. You will know what was false.

Also, don't forget the concept of the relationship 'dyad'
I've been reading about it lately. As you probably know, the fragmented personality of BPD needs to turn their partner into the other half of what they are feeling. If they wake up one day feeling a sense of being an abused person, you are assigned the role of abuser. No matter what good or bad you do, no matter your responses or actions. This also applies if they wake up and decide they are loved. You are now assigned the title of loving and caring. These extremes are very confusing, and very convincing at times.
The back and forth between someone's perception of you is highly intoxicating and damaging. I'm only just beginning to separate myself from the wreckage!:)!

[Pretty Woman]

Please understand, a lot of what is said to you is projection. They are projecting who they are onto you.  I was accused of EVERYTHING on that list and I did none of those things.

My ex sure did though!

How I handled it, esp the smear campaign is I ignored it. People who are sane, who matter to you and you matter to them will be there. You might lose your exes friends/family but those are her/his people... .and that happens in even "" normal relationships. 

What these people think of you doesn't matter in the long run.

[balletomane]

My ex accused all his partners of abuse. The first time it happened to me was when I disagreed with him on the best way to handle a medical issue I was having - nothing serious or life-threatening, just painful. He got verbally hostile about it and very stubborn, and in the end I lost patience and I told him that as it was my body I would have the final decision. Ten minutes earlier he'd been telling me how much he loved me. We went from that to him deciding I'd betrayed him and was the worst abuser he'd ever met. His exact words. After that the abuse accusations were frequent, and they were usually projections - he would accuse me of doing things he was doing himself. For example, he would cut himself and say it was my fault, then two seconds later accuse me of emotionally blackmailing him. He would lash out at me and say horribly vicious things and then accuse me of being aggressive and violent in my speech (even though I would be in floods of tears and saying nothing except "Please don't" and "I love you". For a while I really was terrified that he was right and maybe I was doing something abusive, but logic took over: this man has accused every single one of his partners of abusing him. He has never had a loving stable romantic relationship before. I have, and no one else in my life has ever made these allegations against me. He is the one with the pattern, and he also has a diagnosed mental illness that affects his ability to cope with his emotions. Which is more likely, that I suddenly morphed into an abuser or that he is just adhering to his own patterns of behaviour? But it took me time to arrive at this conclusion, and the stress and pain of being blamed for everything by someone I loved made it hard for me to think logically at times - I also apologised for things I didn't even do just to try and restore a fragile peace (worst was when he wanted me to apologise for thoughts he was sure I was thinking, but that had never even occurred to me). It was like falling down the rabbit hole into a twisted wonderland where black was white and up was down, and I did lose my bearings in there for a while.