Is there hope?

[NoEndInSight]

I'm married to a man with BPD.  For years he was diagnosed as depressed, and was treated/medicated for that.  He swung back and forth between "normal" and "down."  We each were in therapy dealing with this and other things, and every time he started to feel better and our relationship improved it felt like we were out of the woods and we made decisions to move forward in our relationship.  We got married and had a child.  When our son was about to turn 1, my husband got extremely "down."  He intended to commit suicide, and instead went to the hospital to ask for help.  He was held involuntarily for a few days, and voluntarily for a few more.  It was in that period that he was diagnosed as BPD.  It answered a lot of questions, and eliminated most of my hope for our situation ever improving.  When I thought it was depression, I thought he just needed therapy and the right meds, as naive as that may have been.  When I read about BPD, I saw no promise for improvement.  He seemed to improve some for a few months with the new treatment and meds, and we each learned some skills to communicate and cope.  He has since gone downhill, and has been pretty low now for about 6 months.  It has now been a bit over a year since he was diagnosed and I have been steadily losing patience, hope, and commitment to our relationship, and I don't want to.  I want to hold on, but need something to hold on to.  Has anyone seen improvement in their significant others who have acknowledged the diagnosis and sought treatment? 

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Meili]

Yes, there can be improvement with treatment, especially if both parties are committed to making things better.

Is he still going to therapy and if so, what kind? Is he doing DBT?

[NoEndInSight]

He is in DBT.  He did a 6 week outpatient treatment after being hospitalized, and then a weekly individual session and weekly group session for another 4 months or so, and now just weekly individual.  He regularly says he wants to quit going since it isn't helping, but he does still go.  I have given up on telling him that he should go, or pointing out areas that have improved.  I now believe nothing I say or do will impact what he chooses to do.  He doesn't respect my opinion or believe that I care, and I'm not up for a prolonged debate to convince him otherwise when he isn't open to being convinced.  Not to mention the sadness and pain I then feel resulting from the hurtful things he will say throughout the debate.  I'm less miserable if I don't engage in it, but I then feel guilt for not trying to support him. 

Can someone with BPD ever heal?  I know they can learn skills, and I can learn skills, but will he ever be capable of loving me and our son?

[ArleighBurke]

I'm sorry for your situation. It sounds like you have been very patient.

You say he is in DBT. What training have YOU received? I know it's difficult to type accurately, but this stands out to me:

and I'm not up for a prolonged debate to convince him otherwise when he isn't open to being convinced.

How is your conversational Validation? Often a BPD just wants to be HEARD - for you to understand what they feel - not to point out that what they feel is wrong... .

[NoEndInSight]

Very little.  I asked the family counselor in the outpatient program what my options are for learning about DBT and she said she thought the program he went into would include family.  It didn't.  Then I asked my husband to ask his counselor what I could read, or where there were classes I could take.  She suggested one book that I had already read.  I did switch to see a therapist who incorporates some of the DBT skills into our sessions, which helps.  I am not good at validating his feelings and perspective when I believe his feelings are not justified.  I am working to be better, and I often try, and depending on what mood I'm in when it starts I am sometimes able to do it and sometimes not.  Part of what I struggle with the most is when he hits the nail on the head.  I feel discouraged by his treatment and that he isn't progressing more.  I feel pessimistic about his future and ours.  When I am able to push those thoughts out of my head and cling onto something that brings me peace or a shred of happiness, and he starts saying how hopeless it all is, it makes me angry that he drags me back down again. 

[ArleighBurke]

You sound tired! And I understand why. It can be very draining living with a BPD.

Which books do you have?

I am not good at validating his feelings and perspective when I believe his feelings are not justified.

I think we all struggle with this - but if you can fix this - then I think there will be a large positive shift in your relationship. This is what Validation is all about. I guess the key is that he doesn't CHOOSE his emotions. For a non - we can control our emotions (to a point). We can use logic to examine what we feel, put it in perspective, and calm down. A BPD cannot. They feel eveything 100x times more intense then us, and they CAN'T control it.

So when he's annoyed at some little thing, we get that he shouldn't be, but the fact is he *IS* annoyed. THAT'S what we are validating - the fact that he's annoyed. We need to ignore the "cause" for a while. Like if you had a fear of spiders. You may *know* that they are mostly safe, but you absolutely freak out whenever you see one. Do you want someone telling you that "they're harmless!". No. You can't control that fear - so you want someone validating YOUR EMOTION!  ("That thing you feel that you can't control must make you feel so helpless - I'm so sorry".

You can try to validate the cause of the emotion in parts. eg You get given flowers from a male coworker. Hubby assumes you are having an affair and gets annoyed. His "logic path" of flowers=affair is wrong - but ignore that part. The cause of his anger is not that you were given flowers, it is that he thinks you are having an affair. Validate that part. "It must be so painful thinking that your wife is having an affair. That must feel gut wrenching". He has this internal hurt that he NEEDS to share with you, to know you understand, so he can get over it.

Do you practice SET?

[NoEndInSight]

I am exhausted. 

The books I have are Stop Walking on Eggshells, Overcoming Borderline Personality Disorder, and previously I read How to Survive when they're Depressed, and I Don't Want to Talk About it.  I now have started reading High Conflict Couple.  There were some handouts from his group that he shared with me, too.

I had not heard of SET, but can try it. 

All of these methods minimize the argument, but I don't see anything that will stop him from thinking I'm annoying, and telling me so.  His complaints are sometimes things such as thinking I'm interested in another man, or thinking I don't love him.  Both areas where I can understand using SET.  But the most frequent complaints are that my story is too long, or I have no point, or I'm not speaking loud/clear enough, or I only talk about work, or I only complain, or that I have nothing to say.  How am I supposed to want to be around him?  How long will it take for our son to learn to behave this way?

My fear is that as hard as I try to be patient and supportive and to improve those things that I can control, that the best possible outcome is that he still is annoyed by everything that I do, still doesn't express any caring, and I still don't have a partner in life.

[ArleighBurke]

Those are all good books.

SET is Sympathy, Empathy, Truth. I thought it was discused in Stop Walking on Eggshells, but I may be mistaken. https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?board=36.0

But the most frequent complaints are that my story is too long, or I have no point, or I'm not speaking loud/clear enough, or I only talk about work, or I only complain, or that I have nothing to say. 

I read this as: he feels yucky and needs something to blame - so he blames whatever is currently happenning. But no matter how much the external stuff gets fixed, he will always feel yucky. 

How am I supposed to want to be around him?  How long will it take for our son to learn to behave this way?

Very good questions. I struggle with the first one as well. The reason we stay with our partners is very personal - but in making my choice to stay, I am also making the commitment to TRY. I ignore her hateful comments, because I can see that they have nothing to do with me, and are just a reflection of her internal pain. That takes a fair amount of strength. For my children, I model good behaviour and good conversation. I stop any of their negative comments to each other, and promote cooperation and respect. Yes it can be difficult - my 13yrold son often asks me about "why does mum get to do X but we don't" - but I use that opportunity to explain what I can.

My fear is that as hard as I try to be patient and supportive and to improve those things that I can control, that the best possible outcome is that he still is annoyed by everything that I do, still doesn't express any caring, and I still don't have a partner in life.

Unfortunately this is true. With time and patience, PERHAPS you can guide him to focussing on the positives in you and life - I'm not sure how realistic this is. For me, I've had to learn and accept that what I do and say is OK - despite what my wife says. This takes a fair amount of self confidence and strength. But I have given up hope that she will be my "life partner". That level of togetherness and vulnerability won't exist. I'm not sure what to do with that fact yet - I may divorce her when the kids leave home, or I may stay with her and make sure my other relationships are close enough to give me that feeling.

There is no right or wrong answer. It is a very tough decision that I think we all need to go through.