Why do BPD/NPD's fear solutions

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

I am stuck in my brain about the different personalities in this mental illness or is it just some people's personalities? I am a person of solutions, not fear or threats, I mentally shut down. In my r/s with Xw I tried so many times to come to compromising solutions. I would get feedback such as, who thinks like that or you don't see it but you have mental problems, I'm not afraid to leave you, my father will beat you up. Every solution I tried to come up with was met with threats, threats of violence, threats of leaving, verbal abuse, raging, being told I'm crazy? Xw would get into a state of screaming, crying and cursing, she would tell me I'm driving her crazy, that I'm crazy. I was an emotional mental wreck. The only area in my life Xw couldn't destroy was my r/s with my family and that was the area she tried her best to destroy. Something inside me said that's wrong what she is doing. She didn't look at me as a good man trying to save our marriage, she only looked at me as week and a coward. Her BF of over a year seems to be falling in line with her thinking and hates the ground I stand on. Why all the threats and fear tactics. I was always having to prove my love to her but she would of looked at me of more of a man if I fell in line with her twisted ways.

[bus boy]

I am stuck in my brain about the different personalities in this mental illness or is it just some people's personalities? I am a person of solutions, not fear or threats, I mentally shut down. In my r/s with Xw I tried so many times to come to compromising solutions. I would get feedback such as, who thinks like that or you don't see it but you have mental problems, I'm not afraid to leave you, my father will beat you up. Every solution I tried to come up with was met with threats, threats of violence, threats of leaving, verbal abuse, raging, being told I'm crazy? Xw would get into a state of screaming, crying and cursing, she would tell me I'm driving her crazy, that I'm crazy. I was an emotional mental wreck. The only area in my life Xw couldn't destroy was my r/s with my family and that was the area she tried her best to destroy. Something inside me said that's wrong what she is doing. She didn't look at me as a good man trying to save our marriage, she only looked at me as week and a coward. Her BF of over a year seems to be falling in line with her thinking and hates the ground I stand on. Why all the threats and fear tactics. I was always having to prove my love to her but she would of looked at me of more of a man if I fell in line with her twisted ways.

[Warcleods]

People focus on topics and not issues.  Issues generally take people to uncomfortable places within themselves and those without deep insight into their own emotions are really ignorant of what is going on inside.  For example, I have discovered within myself through the help of my therapist exactly how I felt growing up.  I had parents that took care of my basic needs but I was emotionally abandoned as a kid.  This left me in a position in adulthood which I can trace back to my adolescence, 20's and 30's that I lived in fear of rejection and abandonment.  All of my work related decisions, my relationship decisions were made out of fear.  I had to please other people no matter the cost.  My mother was not there for me emotionally and I always felt the need to please her so that I could gain acceptance from her.   When I was good I was praised, when I was bad I was punished.  There was no balance of unconditional love and as a child, I felt that if I was bad or didn't meet their expectations, I would be abandoned, rejected etc.  These feelings inside of me manifested themselves at a very early age in the form of anxiety.  When I was 10 or 11 years old is the first time I remember having an anxiety attack.  As I aged, they became more and more frequent and I would suppress those feelings by forming addictions to things to take my mind away from the pain.  These addictions were formed on a subconcious level because I didn't understand at the time what I needed.

Back to my original point.  Focusing on topics is not the answer.  If I have a binge eating problem (which I don't), it's not that I love food, it's that food provides me with a comfort or escape from a certain or series of emotions.  Through observation of my exBPD, she would only binge eat when dysregulated, and in her mind, she binge ate because she was not happy with her weight.  She never took the time to gain insight as to why she started binge eating in the first place.  Weight gain is a result of binge eating and people don't start binge eating because they want to become overweight.  The ex would feel fat, disgusting, or whatever, become depressed and then binge eat.  She never had the emotional intelligence to realize that what she had is an addiction that started as means to escape core trauma.   She hopelessly sought weight loss programs, strict dieting, calorie counting, at one point starvation and guess what, none of it worked.  Because she focused on the topic and not the issue.  The issue was and still is too painful to address for her.

[kentavr3]

Just remember that BPD/NPD is a very complicated disorder. Your story is a copy of mine and a copy of many many others. You can't fix something in somebody's head. I've read already tons of books and became a kind of expert in this disorder. Most of those people especially BPDs , raised in a violent environment and can't behave differently. For my opinion , if you could recreate the same violent environment, probably life with BPD would continue longer then you had. But in the end , you can't change serotonin metabolizm in their head. My suggestion to you, is to go through the hard time. Try to understand yourself and why you were involved into this relationship. There is a reason in your childhood. Find a healthy person. Do not rush.

[Curiously1]

She didn't come up with these solutions herself. She needs to decide and for you to stop continually push ideas onto her. No matter how helpful these ideas are, you looking above and beyond for solutions may have possiby indirectly made her think badly about herself or that she is not capable of deciding herself. And she cannot deal with feeling that way. She has to word vomit things that will make herself feel and look better in comparison to the way these solutions of yours is making her feel.  For her to feel comfortable, she has to feel as though she decided those solutions you had mentioned for herself. This is what it means to deal with a very self-centred personality. It is her way, or the highway.

[fromheeltoheal]

Hi bus boy-

Curiously makes good points.  To add some standard borderline, you bringing up solutions indicated there was a problem, and if there was a problem you might leave, which triggered abandonment fears, abandonment, the loss of an attachment, being the worst thing that can happen for a borderline.  And the not afraid to leave you part was her responding to the fear of abandonment by threatening to leave first, a preemptive strike, plus you had to have mental problems because she might have feared she did, so project that on you so she doesn't have to feel it.  And your family represented the biggest threat, so warranted the biggest attack.  And BPD is a shame-based disorder, so you had to be weak and a coward, more projection, it's all you, it has to be because accepting responsibility for any issues would trigger that shame, she's just not "good enough", and that would open a shame floodgate, and then you'd leave when you saw the real her.  Standard borderline, apply as applicable.

Not fun bus boy, not fun at all, I'm sorry.  Being solutions-focused as you are, how is your detachment going?

[bus boy]

I'm detaching good. But have feelings of being incompetent in s10's life. I was always told I didn't know how to look after or protect Xw or s10. That I was never there for her, Xw would tell me only her family knew how to protect and be there for her. Now Xw BF is a flying monkey and running to her every whim that she is being treated unjust by me. I would turn my self inside out for Xw and get zero validation but Xw would say, don't start being nice to me now, when you never were before. I struggle in my head of where to put a statement like that Bc I was good to Xw. I know I was a good man but can't feel it, I feel like I am a bad man,

I will never know for sure if Xw was molested, her grandfather molested all his children and most if not all his grandchildren. Probably the worst case of sex abuse in the county. Xw mother was molested. I feel that's where Xw shame comes from and her need to find the pain in my life and keep it alive with very mean hurtful statements and the more I stayed by her side the more she pushed. Maybe it's I'll hurt you before you hurt me or she is feeling pain and projects on me or keep me busy with my defects of character and I wouldn't see hers.

[fromheeltoheal]

I know I was a good man but can't feel it, I feel like I am a bad man,

You likely feel like you're a bad man because you were doing your best to be a good husband and father, and those efforts were met with invalidation, disrespect, abuse, whatever it was, from her for her own reasons, and that situation can feel hopeless.  Been there done that.  So the first thing is to accept you were in a relationship with someone with a mental illness, and that family story you tell illuminates the conditions that created it, and to accept that living with the disorder is a hell and to deal with it and live with herself she's developed psychological tools like projection, compartmentalization, splitting, whatever, to not feel the strong negative emotions she feels, problem is that ends up being very painful for those of us on the receiving end of that treatment.

You've been around here coming up on a year, and the next piece is to start looking at the beliefs you hold when you say you feel like a bad man but know you're a good man.  When someone we care about tells us we're "bad" enough we may start to believe it, and part of detachment is looking deeply at any disempowering beliefs we've adopted throughout the ordeal, questioning them, associating fully to what we know is right, and building an empowered life again, which can be a grand adventure if we embrace it.  I know you want to and you sound ready.

[bus boy]

Hi fromheeltoheal, I am stuck at the moment. I was getting along good, felt good about me and detachment. I was feeling very positive, especially about going back to family court. After sitting in a court room with Xw and listening to her devious manuplation and lies set me back bad. Being around her was toxic to me. It made me look deeper at things and try to get a better handle on me and this illness.

[fromheeltoheal]

Hi fromheeltoheal, I am stuck at the moment. I was getting along good, felt good about me and detachment. I was feeling very positive, especially about going back to family court. After sitting in a court room with Xw and listening to her devious manuplation and lies set me back bad. Being around her was toxic to me. It made me look deeper at things and try to get a better handle on me and this illness.

So think about it bus boy, was there a time when her manipulation and lies worked on you?  Once I started to see through my ex it took all the power out of it and my perception of her changed; what I had once considered toxic and crazymaking became powerless and she became pathetic to me, which helped a lot with my own sanity, and confirmed my decision to remove her from my life.  Can you get to that place?  If not, what's in the way?

[Moselle]

Hi bus boy.

Sorry to hear of this ordeal you are currently experiencing. If it's any consolation you are not alone in it. Mine is doing exactly that same thing in how she attempts to  alienate me from my children. It hurts!

In terms of understanding it, there are two points I can raise:

1. Her new attachment figure is the new boyfriend/husband. Unfortunately we are a threat to that attachment because they know we know about them, and the new man doesn't. They want to keep it that way. So they co-opt the new guy into their demonisation of us by telling stories.

2. A borderline is more like a 2 year old than an adult. We don't compromise with a tantrumming two year old. They don't understand compromise. It's an a adult skill we learn once we can reason effectively and see another's point of view. A borderline cannot reason whilst they are triggered or any time really. And besides I don't believe mine sees me as a human with feelings and desires. She sees me as a source of supply - a thing.

Re the sexual abuse by the grandfather, there is a quite a bit of anecdotal evidence that Borderline skips a generation. Ie that a Borderline is the result of a mother who was sexually traumatised/abused.

[bus boy]

Heeltoheal, I must be ready bc that's how I feel, not all the time but it comes and goes. I can see how pathetic her lies are. In court Xw said I wouldn't look after s10 when he was sick, that I wanted to save my sick days so I could cash them in at the end of the year. I even had texts showing all of my attempts to help look after s10. Even after all my attempts she still got someone else to look after him but told the court I was unwilling. It's those kind of things she does that keep me in a mental rut.

[bus boy]

Moselle, Xw is exactly like a 2 year old. She can be so childish when it comes to compromise. That's why I won't talk to her. She can manage to start nice but before I could hang up she would rattle off a string of belittling remarks. Everything about her is devious and manuplateing. I never met anyone so underhanded in my life.

[Moselle]

Moselle, Xw is exactly like a 2 year old. She can be so childish when it comes to compromise. That's why I won't talk to her. She can manage to start nice but before I could hang up she would rattle off a string of belittling remarks. Everything about her is devious and manuplateing. I never met anyone so underhanded in my life.

Well I catch myself expecting her to act like an adult. Perhaps we should expect them to be 2 years old and treat them accordingly . Lower the expectations a bit.

[bus boy]

Moselle, so true, Xw told me I wasn't welcome at her place unless I was invited. So childish, always trying to hurt me. I am looking deeper into me and realizing she has a mental illness. I am driving the mental illness home into my brain to further help me with
Detaching. I am still wrapped up in " when is she going to show her real self to her BF". They have been together for 1 1/2 years and still going strong but he follows me and gives me the finger so that's not normal. Xw stocks my sister. That's not normal. Xw is a sexual manipulator. When we met, she wanted sex on the second date and than demanded she wanted sex everyday, she looked at me and said, I'm not joking, everyday. And she said it with a tone. Maybe that was my first red flag. I remember feeling odd about that request. Xw left when our son was 4 months old, we maintained an intense sexual r/s up until 1 1/2 years ago. I dreamed of us being a family, that was never in her dreams. I guess that's partly why I struggle with detaching totally. Sometimes I look at her not only as an emotional abuser but also a sexual abuser as well. Not that I was molested by her but manipulated with sex.

[patientandclear]

Returning to your original question: first, I think the very fact that something requires a solution, to some pwBPD (including my ex) means there is a fatal defect in the relationship. The relationship he wants would not include things that need to be fixed.  If he has a bad feeling that means the relationship is wrong. If you fix it, it was still wrong initially, which is want counts (at the moment when he is resisting fixing). I guess another way to look at it is that, from this perspective, there is no such thing as fixing because the fact that the thing is wrong at all is the whole point.

[Moselle]

I am still wrapped up in " when is she going to show her real self to her BF". They have been together for 1 1/2 years and still going strong but he follows me and gives me the finger so that's not normal.

Me too. Her new husband used to be my friend so it's even worse. It took her 10 years before she acted out violently with me. So I don't expect it any time soon. The sooner she gets away from me as her target, or the sooner I remove myself from her influence, the sooner she will start to agitate with him.

I figure she will only isolate him when she no longer needs him. I do not expect that anytime soon. Unless I hit the jackpot and quadruple the maintenance payment to her :-) that's her main gripe with me. Money. She really expected me to pay spousal maintenance and ridiculous child maintenance numbers.

[Hisaccount]

Reading through this was awesome, I really appreciate you posting it.
As I have my own battles reading yours reminded me of mine.

Her saying, why are you helping now, you never did before. That right there. I know good and well you helped. Just like I did. But they choose to see things differently, maybe they don't choose but they certainly construct memories differently.

I still feel like a failure and I am a good man. But I feel like I failed her, I let her down, like I could have done more to fulfill my promises to her, but in reality it is impossible to keep them happy.
You be who you were in the begging and it is a thankless job that cannot be done without the inspiration they gave you in the begging. So you spent years trying to become what they needed and now you are viewed as less of a man and not attractive.

You cannot win. Stay strong. It isn't you.

[JerryRG]

The problem I see is pwBPD seek thier solution to thier problems from the "other" when we all know that isn't how it works, we are the only ones who can fix ourselves and by being in intimate relationships they really only complicate their own issues with the new partner. A truly healthy relationship can only exist if both people are independent and know themselves and what they really want. Desperately hanging on to sick people always ends in misery, it may begin with good intentions but reality has it's way of showing up eventually. The fantasy evaporates and the pwBPD thinks it's the "others" inadequacy and find someone new.

I knew my relationship was doomed very early on, I hung on and just got sick as my ex.

[Moselle]

You cannot win. Stay strong. It isn't you.

Spot on, We cannot win at the Borderline game, they are so good at it. I have tried, and failed!

But we can win in an different way, permanently - by detaching from it and focussing on a thriving and exciting future - our future. Create a positive snowball that leaves the Borderline in it's wake - this is my new job :-)

[bus boy]

Great replies. Really opened my mind up to different ways of looking at and dealing with BPD/npd person. I'm done with trying to get ahead of xw, trying to beat her at her game. It's time to focus on deeper detachment.

[fromheeltoheal]

I'm done with trying to get ahead of xw, trying to beat her at her game. It's time to focus on deeper detachment.

Good move bus boy; the disorder always wins.  What's the next step for you in detachment?  Have you looked at the stages of detachment over there --------->
lately?  Where do you think you are?

[joeramabeme]

BusBoy

Here is my thought on this.  They fear solutions because the answer is not to resolve,rather, it is to offload their pain - pass the hot potato.  If the purpose was a solution, than that is what would happen. 

My former was very smart and new exactly how to resolve anything she wanted and also knew how to keep it unresolved.  It is now clear to me that very few of the arguments we had were about the topic at hand but rather were perpetuated to keep emotional distance.   

In the end, it is all self projection of internal fears onto emotionally intimate partners with the dual purpose of trying to prove they are lovable while convincing others of their dark self-belief that they are unlovable.  Self fulfilling prophecy.

[Moselle]

Here is my thought on this.  They fear solutions because the answer is not to resolve,rather, it is to offload their pain - pass the hot potato.  If the purpose was a solution, than that is what would happen. 

My former was very smart and new exactly how to resolve anything she wanted and also knew how to keep it unresolved.  It is now clear to me that very few of the arguments we had were about the topic at hand but rather were perpetuated to keep emotional distance.   

In the end, it is all self projection of internal fears onto emotionally intimate partners with the dual purpose of trying to prove they are lovable while convincing others of their dark self-belief that they are unlovable.  Self fulfilling prophecy.

Very insightful joeramabeme,

How do we use this knowledge to shift our beliefs?

The take away for me is that when she starts her dysregulation, she is not capable of rational and/or constructive behaviour. I didn't cause it, can't fix it and I can't Influence it. As you say, she is very capable of solving the problem, but that his not her objective.

At the moment my ex is in breach on about 10 clauses on our settlement agreement and parenting plan. She is very capable of keeping to them, but she isn't, in order to get some drama from me.

My job is to point out the infraction and hold her accountable.

[Duped 1]

BusBoy

Here is my thought on this.  They fear solutions because the answer is not to resolve,rather, it is to offload their pain - pass the hot potato.  If the purpose was a solution, than that is what would happen. 

My former was very smart and new exactly how to resolve anything she wanted and also knew how to keep it unresolved.  It is now clear to me that very few of the arguments we had were about the topic at hand but rather were perpetuated to keep emotional distance.   

In the end, it is all self projection of internal fears onto emotionally intimate partners with the dual purpose of trying to prove they are lovable while convincing others of their dark self-belief that they are unlovable.  Self fulfilling prophecy.

Very well said and that makes a lot of sense in explaining her continually starting pointless circular arguments that she just wouldn't let go no matter how hard I tried to end them. It was maddening! A day or two later she would start in again on the same trivial, meaningless topic. All part of the push pull I guess. Pure craziness

[bus boy]

I believe I'm in the processing stage. I thought I was detaching just fine, until I went to family court a couple of weeks ago, I tried to fight xw at her game, I went to court thinking I have her this time. Was I ever wrong, she just got up on the stand and lied as smooth as silk. I was back to where I was this time last year, full of emotional pain. I had to take a very close look at things, reframe. No matter what I must accept the judges decision on the 7th, take what I get for access and move out of this chapter of my life. I am holding my life back waiting for the magical day I will get ahead of her, that people will look at her and say what a terrable thing she did. I can't sit around and wait for that day anymore, it's been 9 1/2 years, time to stop. I am not looking at going back to court as a mistake, although I did and it opened up old painful wounds, I'm looking at as how can I grow from this.

[joeramabeme]

Best wishes Bus Boy.  Let us know what happens.