Stepped out of love triangle

[tom90]

(full story here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=301803.0 - I am really sorry for the very long post)

Hi

So after a few more days of my Ex's instability (love <-> hate at least once daily) and complete inability of my ex-best-friend to decide anything, I decided that it costs me too much and that I need to get out of this triangle.

I read A LOT about communicating and trying to understand pwBPD. So, theoretically prepared, but also in a sincere and healthy manner, I told her that if she cannot stop seeing my ex-best-friend, it's time for her to take all her stuff and her cat from my (previously ours) apartment and get this over with. Of course she went into her cycle (angry->denial that he's important for her -> angry -> sad->angry->understanding->angry), but I didn't take it to myself, just gave her space for all this.

My ex-best-friend told me that our friendship is most important to him, but also that he cannot stop contacting her, as he "has never ever felt so much reciprocated love before". At the same time she was telling me that they met just twice and talked on the phone, also that nothing happened between them and he's not her boyfriend, but she still has feelings for him. So I told him that I wish him good luck, as he doesn't know what he's getting himself into. We've been best friends for 9 years and for last few years I supported him in his girl-problems and nervous problems. He's in therapy, taking meds, has no job and he wasn't close with any woman for over 3 years. Also, he has a weak/disrupted nervous system - this whole situation made him unable to function in his life for the last 1,5 months, because the emotions were too strong.

That's what hurts the most: best friend, who I trusted entirely and supported so many times, flirting with my girlfriend and chasing her when I am severely depressed and we have intra-relationship problems. He was the closest and "safest" person to us both, so it's not strange that she moved part of her feelings on him.
But - hell - his betrayal is what hurts so much. I am mad at myself that I've kept all my trust in someone who turned out so unreliable.

So:
I am sure that their relation will last a very short time, as he's too weak (that's also why he was completely paralysed when he had choose between friendship and chasing his feelings) and she's too demanding on many levels. I know that he's the one who will get hurt in the end, but it's not my problem now.
During our farewell with my pwBPD at first she was super angry, but when I thanked her for all the great moments and love we had and that I don't blame her, she burst into tears. I couldn't help to leave a gate open by telling her that I am here for her and she can contact me freely, but not until she's seeing my ex-best-friend.

And now:
I feel relieved and did some steps to take care of myself:
- a lot of sports
- meeting with even distant friends on daily basis
- therapy
- arranged a few trips abroad, so upcoming Christmas and New Year's won't by such a hard and lonely time (I was really afraid of it or that I would try to contact her or wait for her contacting me)

BUT I am having very intrusive thoughts daily about ex-pwBPD and ex-best-friend together, I even had a dream about me narrating their sex life in his apartment... .It's super strange as I never was a jealous type and I've got no idea how to stop this madness.
Also, my family and friends tell me that this relationship was really destructive for me, but I still want to leave room for her to contact me; I feel like I am addicted but also in real love with my girl and hope that she'll come to her senses as she didn't really do anything wrong when we were together (e.g. betrayed me).
I know that I am also not ready to be close with her, but I have this dream of me getting strong, self-conscious, full of passion and with great work again - enough for us to get back together.

I am planning to keep NC till the end of the year, I've got no idea what will happen later.

Have you got any thoughts or advice?

PS.
I've got one BPD-related finding that I'd like to share:
I think it's impossible to get together/bring back our pwBPD when she has any feelings for somebody else (if you are a part of a triangle). She said completely different things to him, to me and, frankly speaking, I think that a pwBPD is not able to make any decision when there are two other people in play. So stepping out from a triangle and letting them really try being with themselves is the only way to move things forward and eventually end up together.

[DreamGirl]

I'm so sorry for all that you've been through with this. Betrayal is one thing, betrayal with a best friend is pretty heartbreaking.

This is the hardest part of this process - figuring out what you want, accepting what she wants, and seeing if that can even begin to leave with you some kind of relationship.

If I breakdown what you've said ----it's this:

You believe a relationship between him and her will fail. So you're giving them space to fail. Once it fails, she'll realize your worth and come back to you.

Is this your goal? Or is it more of "let's just see what happens"?

It helps to be brutally honest with ourselves in these moments. (I've been very close to where you are, my friend, and I understand)

It helps us to know what it is that you want. I also understand how hard it is to answer that question when your emotions are the dominating force. 

~DG

[tom90]

Thank you DreamGirl for your support, it REALLY means a lot!

Truthfully, I was fine after all the decisions we made few weeks back and I started to feel better with antidepressant meds, taking care of myself and getting used to me and my ex-pwBPD living apart... .Until she came over last time. I was sincere, listening and in a caring mood and when she told me she loves me, hugging and kissing, it got my mind back on the rollercoaster again.

Just a second ago I came back home and started crying, because I feel like it's all my fault: all the suffering, lost love, all the lost time... .I think it got to me when she told me I was controlling, psychologically abusive, manipulating and whatsoever and also I now that she told this to my ex-friend and he believed her completely.

I thought that giving her back all her stuff and her cat and making a sort of closure will help me. In truth it gave me a little relief, but after that I am having flashbacks from our relationship when I could've been more accepting and replaying our last meeting over and over in my head. Somehow I got much worse during last few days.

Maybe I did manipulate her into telling me that she loves me? Is that even possible? Maybe I am the source of this madness... .Hell... .

So, well, what do I want?

Logic and family tells me that I shouldn't be with her ever as such relation is destructive and too absorbing for me (but first 6 months were awesome). However my father tells me that he still likes her and that I just need to get strong and we can end up back together (it's probably because my ex-pwBPD is A LOT like my mother; my parents split up 12 years ago).

Feelings and hope tells me: they will split up, she'll miss me and we'll see it from there, as I really want to have her around, but I don't want to get back to this entanglement that we had before ever again.

I've got this idea about future that if I'll get strong and back to my normal confident self, I will be able to steer our relation in a healthy and stable state and keep it there. But I am afraid that something would implode again... .Can I get strong enough to handle everything and don't get caught off guard again? Does such a relationship make sense at all (living while being prepared for all the bad stuff)?

I think that getting strong and caring about myself now for the purpose of us coming back together is completely contradictory. Because only way for me to get confident, focused and strong is to let her go - completely let her go from my mind... .No?

Tom

[DreamGirl]

I've got this idea about future that if I'll get strong and back to my normal confident self, I will be able to steer our relation in a healthy and stable state and keep it there. But I am afraid that something would implode again... .Can I get strong enough to handle everything and don't get caught off guard again? Does such a relationship make sense at all (living while being prepared for all the bad stuff)?

I think that getting strong and caring about myself now for the purpose of us coming back together is completely contradictory. Because only way for me to get confident, focused and strong is to let her go - completely let her go from my mind... .No?

I think it's often better to not feel like we're jumping off a cliff here. And stay away from the "should's". In that I mean, when we are able to let our emotions process and our logic comes back to the surface, we tend to make better decisions. Someone here once told  me "never buy a house when you're depressed",  our focus and decision making isn't balanced when emotions are our driving force.  

I remember when I was going through something similar --- I would catch myself really missing him and would just sit in that moment and say "I love him. He's like home to me." Period.

I didn't say "this is all is fault, he [insert x, y, z]" or "it's all my fault he [insert x, y, and z]". I mean that's catastrophic thinking really and does. not. help. We were both to blame.

It's like when you get home and you're crying. You miss her. That's OK. Don't talk yourself out of it. Just miss her. Don't try and fix it. I understand blaming yourself - you're just in that stage right now. It helps to just realize that you were probably both to blame. We all play a part.  

I also think the whole "I'm completely getting away from her" isn't realistic -- and you've shown that it's not exactly what you want anyways.

Sometimes, it's better to just have a plan if she calls/texts. Keep it short (2 minutes on the phone) to 2 or 3 texts. Friendly and simple. Kind.  Just end it with "Thanks for calling, I gotta run."

It keeps you connected (if you want the door cracked open). But it keeps the entanglement at bay. Don't solve her problems for her. Don't get back on the roller coaster with lots of "I loved you so much" talk.  

Things that will help get you back to a more leveled place:

Separating yourself from the day to day drama
Focusing on your own health --- go to the Dentist, the Gym, the movies, etc.
Feeling your emotions (fear, anger, grief, joy) and just sitting with them

It also really helps to look at yourself in this. You've already touched on this a little bit. You're handling your depression. Is there a therapist involved?

You're a good guy. We can all see that.

Sometimes we see ourselves as being really kind --- where in reality we're actually compromising our own needs and boundaries for the sake of someone else.

Do you see where you've done that in prior relationships? Or was she different?

[tom90]

DreamGirl, your insight is very valuable for me.

I can see some indications of losing myself too much in previous relationships as well. I guess that I've got some trust issues, so I try hard to commit myself slowly and steadily each time, but eventually I start losing myself for the sake of the relationship itself.

Right now I experience a few difficulties and strong feelings towards my ex-pwBPD:
- Many recollections from our life come to me. I used to fight them and feel angry/sad, but now I am just letting myself recall all the great moments and just enjoy the fact that I've experienced so many amazing moments.
- I've got an issue with sex drive - I am having very strong sexual urges connected with her, which were almost absent lately due to my depression. It may be also connected with the fact that she was into domination/submission which I started to like as well and right now it really got to me to the extent that it's hard for me to bear without her sexually. Also, some new and a little bit strange fantasies came to me. I know that sex always was very important for her and it's the main area that I was dismissing her needs when I was depressed.

I've been sweeping the  bpdfamily forums for some information on sexual repercussions which people experience after being with their romantic pwBPD, but I didn't find much information.

I am using your advice about contact: she texted my yesterday about something, I kept it short and fun. I feel that I won't be ready to really meet with her for at least a month and probably more. However I strongly feel that my prevailing sexual need which is connected only with her may change my plan - I may not be able to control at and probably won't even want to control it.

I have been seeing a therapist and we have been working with my emotions, but not on a regular basis. But I will start seeing him regularly a month from now because of the Christmas time and my travels which I arranged to keep myself busy and away physically.

I used to think of myself of a great single guy, with all the freedom and self-development that I made great use of. Now I am struggling to come back to this, but I hope that eventually I will. Missing her is at the moment a strong physical (not psychological) feeling, it's hard to work with it with my mind. I have never experienced something like this. I am wondering whether trying some mindful fooling around with other people won't have a therapeutic effect. I hate one-night-stands, but maybe I should try it on the vacation... .

Thank you for your support DreamGirl!

Tom

[Grey Kitty]

I am using your advice about contact: she texted my yesterday about something, I kept it short and fun. I feel that I won't be ready to really meet with her for at least a month and probably more. However I strongly feel that my prevailing sexual need which is connected only with her may change my plan - I may not be able to control at and probably won't even want to control it.

Knowing that you want her like that, and probably won't be able to / want to hold back if you see her is really good.

Since you aren't with her right now, think about what that will actually mean if you do follow through... .while you aren't with her and can actually think about it 

Remember, if you do, this just adds another layer of complications to the love triangle with you, her, and your ex-best friend... .what you describe of the three of you is that she can be impulsive, and that she's compelling. You don't think you can resist her. Your ex-best friend told you more-or-less that he can't either.

It really is your choice to make. I'm not saying what is the right choice for you--I'm suggesting that you choose when she's not there in person, knowing that your ability to choose anything but "YES" will probably evaporate when she's with you, and keeping your distance if you think that "no" is what you want for now.


Also please remember that sexual dreams you have aren't in your control, and you are best off just accepting them. And your fantasies are yours too. Please don't judge them as "wrong" or "sick" or anything. You are who you are, and what turns you on is what turns you on. You get to have that inside your head.

What you do to act on those fantasies is different. Depending upon how kinky you are, there may be things you cannot act out in any way safely. BDSM can be safe, or at least much of it can, with knowledge and preparation.

This woman, who is the center of your fantasies (at least for today), has a whole bunch of complications tied up with her, and you can't have sex with her without re-opening Pandora's box. Does that make sense to you?


You sound like you are thinking of casual sex in hopes of getting her out of your mind, not because you really like the idea. I'd recommend you spend a bit more time thinking about what you want first. If you don't, I suspect you will figure more of it out as you either try or succeed at picking up somebody. For better or for worse. And also with consequences (again, for better or worse!) to any potential future with your ex.