Totally blew it today

[malibu4x]

Wife has been super critical of 9Daught and 10Son... .for many years.

Daughter was helping wife her clean something today.  She finished up and wife was working on something else in another room... and I suggested, "hey let mom know you are done, and ask if there is anything else you can do."  Daughter resisted, but I insisted.   Daughter was right.
Wife lost it on my little 9yr old girl - scolded her for bugging her, and yells at her that she can find something else to do on her own.

I have enough and get upset at wife.  Angrily tell her it is not OK to talk to people especially our daughter like that.
She loses her sh** on me now.  We get into huge fight in front of kids.   I feel sick and horrible.

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[hope2727]

I am sorry you feel like you blew it. I think you did amazing. Thank you for sticking up for your daughter. She is 9! You and your wife are the adults. You are teaching her how to live the rest of her life. Thank you, thank you, thank you for sticking up for her.

[malibu4x]

Thanks Hope - appreciate the words.  I do feel it is right to stick up for kids.
However, every time I do, I get sent straight to the shi*house by wife.
I need to practice a much more calm, dry approach perhaps?

[hope2727]

Have you read the lessons on SET and JADE? They really have helped me deal with some toxic family members. I know how hard it is to deal with unreasonable people.

Your post just brought to mind an incident with my dad when I was little. He was being horrible and my mom stuck up for me and more to the point dumped the responsibility for his actions firmly onto him. I remember being so so confused. He tried to gas light me and I knew I wasn't imagining what he said. He started raging and because my mom refused to back him he eventually had to relent.

 I will never forget it. I will always appreciate it. I was maybe 9 and now am 47. So you can imagine what an impact such a small thing had on me. You may not have managed your wife perfectly but you did set a standard of behaviour for your daughter. Kudos.

[Lockjaw]

That crap is tough to do when you see someone attack you, or your child. I have to be really on top of my game and not have anything bothering me to catch myself. Most of the time, I blow a gasket when the attacks start.

Only advice I would give is for you to not subject your daughter to that if you can help it. I have same issue with my EX, she will never be the mom she needs to be for our kids I have to be the dad and more. It's very draining, but I do it for them.

I like you stuck up for your daughter. That is good, and she needs to understand it isn't ok for her mom to just bless her out for no reason.

[Notwendy]

Another daughter of a BPD mom chiming in to say I don't think you blew it at all for standing up for your daughter.

If there is room for improvement, it isn't on the principle, but how to effectively enforce a boundary on not subjecting the kids to verbal abuse.

It helps to keep in mind the Karpman triangle here. JADE, explaining, logic, are not going to work in the moment. Your wife is in victim mode. She feels somehow persecuted when your daughter approached her. Then you stepped in to rescue the D and your wife went into full victim mode.

Rescuing can be playing into the dysfunction when we are rescuing a grown adult. A grown adult in a relationship taking on "victim" is rarely a true victim. ( I would say the exception is threat of serious harm). Adults have choices in relationships- albeit some are difficult choices. However, children are true victims in the sense that they don't have the choices adults have. They are completely dependent on their parents for their survival and well being.

To not have stood up for your D would show her that you are compliant in how her mother treats her, and worse more- that it is OK for her to be treated like this. You are setting the stage for her future relationships. If she learns it is OK with you to be treated like this, she may in the future choose a partner who also treats her like this.

You can't control what is said to your kids when you are not present, but when you are, you can maintain a boundary about not verbally abusing the kids. It will likely result in your wife getting angry. At this point- learning ways to disengage from the argument is helpful. It may take removing all of you- you and kids in car for a ride. Your wife may remain angry- but a boundary has been set.

I understand wanting to keep the peace with the kids. I was concerned about the effect of the fights with my H around the kids, and did a lot of WOE - giving in - to keep the peace. The co-dependency didn't help, but I do think it helped to not be fighting as much. However, the bottom line for me was the kids- and their welfare is non-negotiable with me.  My H is good to the kids- so we didn't have this particular conflict. This may have been because it is a mutual boundary- or because it was very clear that this was a deal breaker for me.

I do think pwBPD can push the limits of boundaries, but if we stand firm on the ones that are most important to us, I think our actions will reinforce that boundary. Setting boundaries isn't easy- they are likely to be followed by rages- but over time, not giving in to the rages, or adding fuel to the fire can demonstrate that a boundary is a boundary.