Deniers of Sexual Abuse In Families

[Our abuse recovery guide]

In some cases,  this also might be "enablers" even if passively. 

I've written about this,  first on the Co-parenting board,  but realized that the family dynamic of abuse is more applicable here.  The short summary is that just after D4 turned 2, she told me that her then 17 year old uncle (brother of my uBPDx) touched her private parts. She told me first a few months before her second birthday. I started inviting him to hang out with us on weekends.  I didn't observe anything amiss, but of course I never allowed them to be alone together.  She told me the second time weeks after her second birthday.  Then S4  confirmed it (he later said she was lying,  but I came to understand that the reaction was typical for his age). I called my T, a mandatory reporter, who told me to call the cops and CPS or he would have to,  so I did. 

Much drama ensued.  I was a (swear words that would be filtered by the software). I was the molester.  The kids didn't tell the cops the specific things they told me,  then their mom,  so U17 wasn't arrested. 

Of course,  the family sided with him,  and truthfully,  I had and still have a hard time believing it. I spent hundreds of dollars out of pocket taking to my therapist about it (on top of the thousands I'd already spent to keep myself sane after their mother left).

This summer,  we got now D4 into therapy under my insurance.  TFCBT (trauma-focused CBT). 1.5 years later,  D4 mentioned it to the T after she explained what sexual abuse was,  age appropriately, "like when Uncle "Billy" touched me.  Yes.

Last week, my daughter was changing after her bath.  She showed her private parts to me (I've been transitioning her to dress herself at night,  but it's a process). She was a little red.  She touched herself.  I asked if anyone else had and she said,  "uncle "Billy" did,  but that was a long long long long time ago,  when I was 1." S6 was in his bath,  but the doors were open.  "She's lying Daddy! Uncle "Billy" never touched her!"

Two days later,  we were at almost the last TFCBT appointment.  The T sees our daughter first,  then the parents separately. The T said that our daughter didn't seem to be especially traumatized by the experience,  which is good.  The T is trying to help us work out a narrative of what happened. 

Then my ex shared something she hadn't told me.  Her mom told her that D4 locked herself in the bathroom last week,  something she hadn't previously done. Grandma asked why, and D4 said "so Uncle "Billy" doesn't come in." Grandma told D4 to stop lying. 

I was looking at the wall as my ex related this,  but I must have given something away,  because the T commented that this must have been hard to hear, "for dad as well. " I can feel myself getting pissed off just writing about it.  After it happened,  grandma was all about "why wouldn't my granddaughter tell me first?"  This explains it.  It isn't productive to try and explain it now.  My ex and her mother got into an argument about it.  Nothing productive was resolved. 

Regarding what our son said about our daughter being a liar, the T put it succinctly,  and it makes sense to put it this way: "babies don't know how to lie." 

I've received feedback from multiple sources,  including a CASA (Court Ordered Special Advocate), saying,  "children,  especially this young,  don't lie about sexual abuse. "

I never thought my daughter was a liar,  but I was confused given the dynamics,  an ex BIL whom I used to love and trust. 

I totally understand the reactions of the family,  even if they piss me off. What really angers me is the lack of protection towards an innocent child. D4 isn't the "Bad Seed" give me a break, even if she is my Baby Princess" 

She and S6 are physically dags sage safe in the few hours they're at that home after school.  Emotionally,  I'm not so sure. I'm pushing to get them out of there. 

[Turkish]

In some cases,  this also might be "enablers" even if passively. 

I've written about this,  first on the Co-parenting board,  but realized that the family dynamic of abuse is more applicable here.  The short summary is that just after D4 turned 2, she told me that her then 17 year old uncle (brother of my uBPDx) touched her private parts. She told me first a few months before her second birthday. I started inviting him to hang out with us on weekends.  I didn't observe anything amiss, but of course I never allowed them to be alone together.  She told me the second time weeks after her second birthday.  Then S4  confirmed it (he later said she was lying,  but I came to understand that the reaction was typical for his age). I called my T, a mandatory reporter, who told me to call the cops and CPS or he would have to,  so I did. 

Much drama ensued.  I was a (swear words that would be filtered by the software). I was the molester.  The kids didn't tell the cops the specific things they told me,  then their mom,  so U17 wasn't arrested. 

Of course,  the family sided with him,  and truthfully,  I had and still have a hard time believing it. I spent hundreds of dollars out of pocket taking to my therapist about it (on top of the thousands I'd already spent to keep myself sane after their mother left).

This summer,  we got now D4 into therapy under my insurance.  TFCBT (trauma-focused CBT). 1.5 years later,  D4 mentioned it to the T after she explained what sexual abuse was,  age appropriately, "like when Uncle "Billy" touched me.  Yes.

Last week, my daughter was changing after her bath.  She showed her private parts to me (I've been transitioning her to dress herself at night,  but it's a process). She was a little red.  She touched herself.  I asked if anyone else had and she said,  "uncle "Billy" did,  but that was a long long long long time ago,  when I was 1." S6 was in his bath,  but the doors were open.  "She's lying Daddy! Uncle "Billy" never touched her!"

Two days later,  we were at almost the last TFCBT appointment.  The T sees our daughter first,  then the parents separately. The T said that our daughter didn't seem to be especially traumatized by the experience,  which is good.  The T is trying to help us work out a narrative of what happened. 

Then my ex shared something she hadn't told me.  Her mom told her that D4 locked herself in the bathroom last week,  something she hadn't previously done. Grandma asked why, and D4 said "so Uncle "Billy" doesn't come in." Grandma told D4 to stop lying. 

I was looking at the wall as my ex related this,  but I must have given something away,  because the T commented that this must have been hard to hear, "for dad as well. " I can feel myself getting pissed off just writing about it.  After it happened,  grandma was all about "why wouldn't my granddaughter tell me first?"  This explains it.  It isn't productive to try and explain it now.  My ex and her mother got into an argument about it.  Nothing productive was resolved. 

Regarding what our son said about our daughter being a liar, the T put it succinctly,  and it makes sense to put it this way: "babies don't know how to lie." 

I've received feedback from multiple sources,  including a CASA (Court Ordered Special Advocate), saying,  "children,  especially this young,  don't lie about sexual abuse. "

I never thought my daughter was a liar,  but I was confused given the dynamics,  an ex BIL whom I used to love and trust. 

I totally understand the reactions of the family,  even if they piss me off. What really angers me is the lack of protection towards an innocent child. D4 isn't the "Bad Seed" give me a break, even if she is my Baby Princess" 

She and S6 are physically dags sage safe in the few hours they're at that home after school.  Emotionally,  I'm not so sure. I'm pushing to get them out of there. 

[Harri]

Hi Turkish.  What a hurtful and difficult situation for everyone involved, but I am most concerned about you and your kids. 

Often the worst parts of sexual abuse is the emotional/mental component that surrounds it all.  That is, the denial/enabling, defensiveness, the fear of destroying the family unit and the 'loyalty', love, trust that exists in such situations even if that loyalty and trust is unwarranted.  We often talk of the myth of motherhood on this board.  Another myth is that of family.  You mentioned that you love the uncle in question.  Well, of course you do.  He has a special part in your life as part of your family, which I would think is especially important to you given your childhood.  It must hurt immensely to know that he violated your trust and your daughter to such an extent and in such a vile way.  Your love for him may not necessarily just vanish so I imagine it is hard to hold clashing feelings about him.  the thing is, as you know, feelings just are.  You acted correctly by calling the police in spite of knowing all of the emotional fall out and the way you feel about him.  Love is not different from any other emotion:  we should not choose to do or not do certain things just because there is love there.  (Did that make sense?  Having trouble finding the words.)

From the little i know of your situation and your ex'es family, it seems to me that there is a lot of dysfunction in the whole unit and your ex'es mother is right in the middle of it.  If I remember correctly, all of her kids show signs of dysfunction or mental/ emotional problems.  Her ability to deny is remarkable about her own kids given the fact that the evidence of their problems is right in front of her with most (all?) of her kids being unable to function / live independent of the family network.

As such, I am not surprised that she is denying the fact that your daughter was sexually abused and that she is in turn essentially brainwashing your son to believe his sister is lying and, more dangerously, to disbelieve his own knowledge of what he saw.  Both kids are being emotionally abused in that situation.  Your kids are being gaslighted and so are you to an extent.  That is emotional torture and so very confusing and damaging to adults when it happens nevermind kids.  So while your daughter may never be alone with the uncle in question, she and your son are in the presence of someone who is at the heart of the dysfunction in your ex'es family and they are, like you said, being emotionally abused.

You are at the other end of experiencing sexual abuse that I was but I think many of the emotions are similar.  The sense of hurt, betrayal, questioning our own perceptions and experiences, giving up the dream of family.  It is so very hurtful, devestating really, and my heart goes out to you Turkish. 

Do you think it may be time to insist that they go elsewhere for after school care rather than pushing for it?

As always, take what fits and leave the rest.  But please keep posting Turkish.  this is a lot to unravel and process.

 

[HappyChappy]

Hi Turk,

This is a tricky one, it must be a weight on your shoulders.  But looking at the positive, your T said   she didn’t seem that traumatised, which has to be good.  I would agree with your T when they say a baby doesn’t know how to lie. But I’m also mindful that a 4 year old isn’t the best communicator, but you know the full detail so you’re in a better position to take a view. I guess you’ve got 4 options: keep a watchful eye, or dig for more evidence, or take evasive action, or ignore it.

In my country many of the resent abuse cases have succeeded in court due to covert camera’s or microphones. I don’t know the legalities of this in your country and I would never advise to break the law, but this evidence is admissible in our courts.  You need a reason to suspect, but you’ve got that. Many nurseries now have webcams in every room.  Let’s be honest, abusers tend to do the worst things when they’re alone with the victim, so how else can you back up victim testimonials ?

I guess you could consider offender profiling, has your brother in law got a history of exposure to this sort of thing ? Does he have a PD ? Would it be possible to get your kids hooked on a different kind of after school activity, so you could steer them away from the current set up ? I guess it might help to have a different reason for a new after school care option, as your brother in law and his followers, won’t want to accept the real reason.  But I guess as your daughter hasn’t spoken of other incidents and people are more watchful, that has to be good. What does your instinct tell you ?

[Turkish]

We've pulled the kids out of the grandparents' home. I wanted to do this over two years ago, but maybe I was weak. 

Gavin DeBecker, in his book,  Protecting The Gift, says that you don't want sexual abuse "deniers' watching your kids.  "This doesn't happen" or "I only work with good families" are  responses when interviewing sitters.  You don't want deniers watching your children.

Though it happened 3 years ago, and we got her through TFCBT therapy this last year, D4 has started mentioning her uncle's abuse again.  She told her mom that Uncle looks through the window at my house and watches her bathe. 

The grandparents left the country for a few days. Ex texted her sister,  sister talks to mom.  Drama ensues. Ex and hey mother argued.  Grandmother of D4 wanted to talk to D4 alone.  No way in hell.  I'm glad my ex was on board with this.  To what end,  too convince our dish D she was a liar?

I wanted to pull them out two years ago. Based hoping the argument, her mom told her that she couldn't watch the kids anymore because she didn't want to risk her son's life ruined again (the kids uncle). Fine. 

Now we're scrabbling for alternate childcare. A prospect dropped out as of the conversation I just had with her. I wish I could trust family with my kids,  but fire for sure it isn't a bunch of deniers. Come Monday,  we're still not sure... .

[Kwamina]

She told her mom that Uncle looks through the window at my house and watches her bathe.

Whether you should or should not have pulled them out of there before, we cannot change the past. I am glad you took this step now. This is horrible for your daughter. I can only imagine how hard this must also be for you hearing your daughter describe her uncle's very disturbing behaviors.

Grandmother of D4 wanted to talk to D4 alone.

I totally agree with you.

How is your daughter doing now? Has she said anything more about her uncle?

[Turkish]

D4 hasn't mentioned anything to me. 

Yesterday after church,  we had lunch.  My ex floated the idea of her husband's grandmother picking up and watching her.  I vetoed that.  She didn't argue.  I think she earned me to say that.  I didn't explain it (the kids were with us), but her H had threatened her over a month ago that he could call the cops on her and the kids would end up with him. 

I don't fear an Amber Alert, but that's delusional.

I'm taking a day of this week to pick up D4 at 12 PM the lay last two days of the week.  I got into work today at 630AM to make up time.  We had a huge reorganization last week in our large tech company. We have a new boss from headquarters in the Lone Star State. Some layoffs,  people are freaking.  Bad timing but we'll do what we have to do.  Detaching Board comment, but we could handle this in stride of she hadn't left. 

In other news (to hijack my own thread), mom got inches of snow yesterday other than the phone conversation 3 weeks ago, NC.

I'm focusing on what I have here to deal with,  which is D4 and our son,  who turns 7 tomorrow.