Anger--guilt--beseeching

[Nicke]

I've told my UstbxH (BPD/NPD) that I'm done, that it's over.  He's gone from anger, to blaming, to making me feel guilty.  We have two kids, and he keeps talking about how ripping apart the family will harm them, how I'm shattering all the hopes we had for the future, etc.  He is saying things like how bad this will mess up our elder child, who herself has some issues that are likely early stages of BPD-like symptoms. 

I responded firmly to all of these, because I know he is trying to FOG me into staying, desperate not to be abandoned.  Now he has gone to kindly asking me to stay, saying he has come to a place of acceptance, but begging that I reconsider (for the family unit, etc.), sending me short emails about how he knows how hard this has been on me and I never deserved any of that, and that he owes me so much.  He added to that if I look into this debt I will find the love and beauty that were always there.  I just felt confused after that. 

I've told him numerous times now I cannot be his romantic partner again, I just can't.  All my ability to feel that form him is gone.  After the emotional abuse, accusations, criticism, etc., over the years, and especially in any situation when he was not the center of my focus, I cannot. 

At first, like I said, I firmly stood my ground, but that has made our current situation of still being in the same house unbearable.  He goes to the room to cry off and on, and we argue over things still.  We have an appointment with a new T for couples therapy, and I firmly said it would be to discuss how best to manage ourselves through the separation for the children.  We are financially stressed, having bought a house together a little over a year ago (just afterward, things went sharply downhill for a variety of reasons). 

He was saying he can't possible wait til we get tax return/sell house.  He wants to get it over with if it's over--this was before he started the kinder-toned begging me to reconsider.  I haven't said anything to this.  I plan to wait til we see the T (2/6 is the appt) before I say much of anything else. 

I have briefly considered offering him to live in the house, basically as a roommate.  Separate room, respect, etc.  My mother says that's never going to work.  I know it won't, but I would tell him as soon as anything goes wrong, he has to leave.  But I am doubtful, too.

Any suggestions or words of wisdom here?

N

[vortex of confusion]

I have briefly considered offering him to live in the house, basically as a roommate.  Separate room, respect, etc.  My mother says that's never going to work.  I know it won't, but I would tell him as soon as anything goes wrong, he has to leave.  But I am doubtful, too.

Ex and I tried the living in the same house but separated bit. It didn't work. Ex couldn't respect my space. If he and I were in the house, it felt like he had to know where I was and what I was doing.

The longer you stay living in the same space, the harder it will be to get out of the FOG. I didn't even begin to realize how off track things had gotten until he moved out. It was only then that I was able to start getting a better grip.

There are advantages to trying to live in the same house, especially if there are financial considerations. How old are the kids? If the two of you can be peaceful enough, it might help for the kids to have both parents around for childcare and stuff like that. Ultimately, I decided that it was easier to go it alone. He and I were not able to get along well enough and it was bad for the kids.

I have heard of other couples that were able to make it work to a degree. You have to look at all of the unique factors involved and make a decision based on that. Don't listen to him or let him suck you back in. Even though ex is out of the house, he will still sometimes act like nothing happened. It is mind boggling. When he does that, it is rather easy to wonder if I am crazy and if I made the right decision.

[Nicke]

I appreciate your words.  It is a daunting proposition to continue living together, and I worry about offering it at all.  The kids are 5 and 8, and the 8-year-old is definitely prone to being carried away by emotions and all-or-nothing thinking. 

Just yesterday the H went out of town and as we drove away from dropping him, she was saying she was glad he was going because he's "bossy."  (He doesn't respect her limits, being dependent on her to make him feel good about himself.)  But then last night she was saying how she wished he were there, that he's her one-and-only daddy... .

Anyway, I don't believe it will work for long, but it might give time to get our tax return, fix the house up a bit, and just not rush into selling it.  That's a matter of convenience, and I guess I want to give it every chance to be best for the kids.  I suppose it is not impossible that he manage himself under the new conditions, but I highly doubt it.  I imagine something exactly like what you are saying.

Honestly he is often a problem when it comes to parenting, and we haven't really dealt with that much in therapy because we're dealing with his bombardment of jealousy and accusation. 

Well, onward.  He'll be back this evening, and he has emailed about how he hopes I've considered taking "half a step back".  Ugh.

Thanks again.

N

[vortex of confusion]

It is a daunting proposition to continue living together, and I worry about offering it at all.

Don't offer it all. I didn't really set any kind of time limits or offer anything concrete. Everything was rather vague for quite a while. And then one day, he said the wrong thing and I was done. I could no longer subject myself or the kids to his behavior.

(He doesn't respect her limits, being dependent on her to make him feel good about himself.)  

This stuff is really confusing for kids. I know that ex was a pretty good dad when the kids were little and were still in that huggy, lovey stage. As they got older and started developing their own sense of self that challenged him, things got more difficult for him and he became overwhelmed.

Anyway, I don't believe it will work for long, but it might give time to get our tax return, fix the house up a bit, and just not rush into selling it.  That's a matter of convenience, and I guess I want to give it every chance to be best for the kids.

Can you give yourself a time frame? For example, tell yourself that you will give it two months and then re-evaluate things. At one point, I had a 5 year plan. I gave myself 5 years to figure out how to end the relationship. I wanted to give myself time to make a rational and logical decision. I wanted to give the kids as much time as they could get in a two parent household. That was until ex lost his job and was home all day every day. At that point, I had to re-evaluate. I told him that he would have to leave as soon as he got a job. And then, his behavior seemed to get worse. I lost the ability to tolerate him and my behavior went downhill. And then one day, he said, "I can't wait to leave." The next day, I told him to get out. I had been working up the nerve to do it for a while. Here it is 10 months later and he still doesn't have a job. I am so glad that I found the strength to get him to leave. If I hadn't, I can't imagine the mass mayhem that would have ensued.

he hopes I've considered taking "half a step back".  Ugh.

Ex used to try to tell me all kinds of things to get me to back down and give him more time. He could tell me what I wanted to hear yet could rarely follow through. I got to a point that I didn't really share much with him. I was trying to figure out what to do in my own head. I knew that I couldn't count on him to be a voice of reason. And, I knew that whatever we might discuss at one point would change. I knew I had to figure out what to do and then figure out how to make it happen.

[Soulcrushed4]

I regret each time I allowed myself to push back my own limit on being done.

My ex can go from calling me a family killer to claiming he still loves  me overnight. Lying, cheating, stealing etc to me supposedly being his guardian angel.

The only thing that changed was the months and years on the calendar despite all his guilt trips, empty promises and pleading that I just "try". It was quite a convenient arrangement for him as while I was running myself ragged trying and attempting to keep the family together his almost every action was sabatoging my efforts.

I fell for the words and ignored the actions. Now it seems my children and I are left with picking up the pieces and he's continued on happily with the randoms and new supply sources that he can never be without.

As hard as it is being 100% solo it's actually easier in a lot of ways than the additional uncertainty, anxiety, chaos and stress that he brought to the table. At least I know I can rely on myself.

I found my strengths and values  were used against me in an odd way, if that makes sense because he knew exactly what buttons to push to get his way, especially pertaining to the kids and family - yet looking back he wasn't pulling his weight as part of the family. To him it appears family is just a disposable commodity.

He ended up getting way more time from me than he deserved and sometimes it was as simple as him just being nice. Since I was just so desperate in the end for peace and calm and him to be nice. I often wished I could be one of the random people he had in his life since they got the "best" of him.

Lots of talk about needing "time"... .but to what end? Truly it's time+actual effort/investment/commitment... .aka the right stuff.

Having been pretty much no contact due to a protection order for 4 months it is getting so much easier to trust my gut and believe in myself again.

I truly wish I had of waited for concrete longstanding changes of behaviour way earlier. Would have saved my children and I a world of heartbreak.

I've realized now his words were simply the feeling of that exact moment. All the moments in between were filled with other feelings and the actions matched the in between times not the times the words matched what I wanted to hear.

[Nicke]

Thank you, both.  Vortex, I feel a lot of similarity in our situations.  It would seem he already said the wrong thing, and I had already been struggling for over a year in earnest, and struggling silently for much longer.  But now with him acting so determined to act differently, I am just feeling down about it all.  I haven't said much else, and we do have the appointment with a T to talk about it--"it" for me is separating while "it" for him is how to make it work... .  I haven't responded to his plea that I reconsider.

The fact remains that I will stand by not wanting to be his romantic partner.  So if he wants to live with me like this for a time, we can try it, I suppose, in not so many words, perhaps.  I know it will not last because he has stated over and over again that he needs intimacy (he means physical intimacy).

Onward... .