Isolation from Extended Family

[DaddyBear77]

I've been with my uBPDw now for 17 years. And for nearly as long as we've been together I've been bombarded with constant negative and mostly unfounded criticism centered around my parents and my brothers. The particularly vicious criticism has been aimed at my mother, and generally speaking she considers my father and two brothers as pawns my mother uses against me and my uBPDw.

When D3 was born, the anger and hostility increased to the point where I felt it was a choice between leaving my uBPDw or cutting off contact with my extended family. This was an explicit threat from her - either I cut things off or she "leaves and takes the baby." But ultimately it was my choice and for a while I put all my focus and energy toward raising my infant and I didn't speak to my family for a few months. I made contact with them again, only to later have my uBPDw find I was doing it "behind her back." I cut them off again but about 2 years ago I just figured out a way to keep it REALLY secret and I've been trying to keep in regular contact.

Needless to say my relationship with my parents and brothers is strained. I really really regret having cut them off and I'm having a hard time reconciling my continued "secrecy" with what I believe is a perfectly normal and valid desire to maintain a relationship with them.

Has anyone else experienced this? Does anyone have some ideas about how to resolve / reconcile this kind of situation?

DB

[Stolen]

DB77,

This has a very familiar ring to it.  After decades (!) of not seeing the forest for the trees, I drew up a family tree for xW's FOO.  Going back to her grandmother's generation (as far back as I had knowledge of), I could clearly see the same pattern of isolation.

I knew her Grandmother only as an elderly woman, but she still spoke with anger and bile anytime she would mention "grandpa's" family. Via other family members, I was told about her "hating his  family" and that they were effectively severed from "the family".

xW's evil mother did the same with her husband's family. Again all secondhand, but many many times I heard the most hateful and demeaning descriptions of his family, and how they were severed from "the family".

Now we get to my turn - my entire FOO was my mother and brother. The painting of them was gradual but relentless. Yes - I was complicit in cutting them off, I felt it was the lesser of two evils - to do otherwise would be to lose my children, no?   

My mother passed away last summer, having not seen her only two grandchildren in over 5 years. I give thanks that I finally understood the forces at play, and spent the last 2 years closer to my mother than ever. And my relationship with my brother has also rebounded nicely.

So easy to see in hindsight - I drew up the boxes that make up the family tree, three generations worth.  Then I drew three "Xs".  X, X, X.   And there it was - plain as day.

Separate. Isolate. Alienate. 

[Panda39]

It may sound simple but how do you fix this?  See your family. 

I think you need to create a boundary around your value that family... .all of your family is important to you. 

Setting boundaries... .https://bpdfamily.com/content/setting-boundaries

Your mom is being singled out I suspect because you were probably particularly close to her.  Remember BPD = fear of abandonment and includes a lot of black and white thinking.  In your wife's mind if you love your mom more than her you might leave, and you can't love both your mom and your wife it must be one or the other.  Her thinking is dysfunctional and you are following that dysfunction. 

See your family.

Panda39

[Grey Kitty]

It may sound simple but how do you fix this?  See your family. 

I think you need to create a boundary around your value that family... .all of your family is important to you.

I concur, but have one additional comment:

She will see this as a threat, and if you stand strong on this, you will experience an extinction burst. She will attempt louder, angrier, more forceful things to get you back in line.

There will be divorce threats.

There may even be a filing for divorce, complete with lawyers and false allegations against you which could have you in jail before it gets sorted out; we cannot say how far she will take this.

If you've ever tried to stand up to her before, use her previous behavior as a guide on what to expect.

However, remember in most cases, when you enforce a boundary like this one, in the end, she will come to accept it, even if she doesn't really like it. After she gets through the extinction burst!

[peacemountain]

She will attempt louder, angrier, more forceful things to get you back in line.

There will be divorce threats.

There may even be a filing for divorce, complete with lawyers

I've allowed this isolation and black listing of my family to happen as well! It's not right and I feel so bad about it. I know it's one of those things I'll regret down the road so it has to be addressed. How bad have others experiences been with extinction bursts?

[Notwendy]

Contact them- on your own, with either your own private e mail, your office phone. Do not include your wife. I would even suggest she doesn't know about it. She will see it as a threat, or a betrayal, but it isn't. It is your right to have a relationship with your family. She will see it as a form of the Triangle, and go into victim mode. I don't generally advocate being sneaky with a spouse, but this is your family and you have the right to protect your relationship with them.

My mother didn't like my father's FOO and the feeling was mutual. It was hard for him to see them. This made them sad. They adored him. They didn't like her. Only in BPD world is this unacceptable. We are allowed to like who we like and not like who we don't like.

My mother controlled my father's relationship with me. She read his e mails .If I called the house, she listened in on the extension. I was always so happy to call and find out she had gone out of the house. Those were the few times I could have my father to myself for a few moments.

If you don't assert your right to have a one on one relationship with your family, it probably won't happen.

[Grey Kitty]

  Yes, have a r/s with your family that is one-on-one and you don't involve your wife, tell your wife, or communicate in a way she can even see it is happening.

You also can make a stand with her and tell her you are going to have a r/s with them, whether she likes it or not, in order to see them in person, or other things that cannot be done without your wife knowing.

This second one is a case of choosing your battles--you can choose when, or if that one is worth it for you.

[DaddyBear77]

Everyone is making really great points and sharing some really helpful information.

I have, indeed, been communicating and, when possible, visiting my parents and brothers in secret. As far as my wife knows, I've cut off contact completely. She constantly "suspects" I'm still talking to them. She thinks that anytime I even suggest the idea that we split up, it's because my mother has "gotten to me."

In the end, yes, I totally agree that I need boundaries here. Being prepared for what happens when those boundaries are enforced is a good summary of where I am on my path, with this and other situations.

[Grey Kitty]

In the end, yes, I totally agree that I need boundaries here. Being prepared for what happens when those boundaries are enforced is a good summary of where I am on my path, with this and other situations.

  Suggestion on boundaries for you: When you try to enforce pretty much any boundary, you know what she will do to push back.

With most members, it is raging, verbal/emotional abuse, possibly escalation to physical violence or threats of it, threats to leave, actually leaving, or silent treatment. You've been through it.     That is why you are here! But anyhow, you know what her "style" is.

If you can prepare yourself to enforce boundaries to protect yourself from THAT, you will be OK. You will survive, and you will make it through (whatever)

OTOH, if you cannot handle what she will throw at you, whenever you try to enforce any boundary, she will escalate to whatever it is that makes you cave, and there you are, stuck.

Often it is the fear of the raging that stops us from taking care of ourselves more than anything, and once we realize that we don't have to be afraid that she "might" do this, because we pretty much know she WILL, and also know she has before, and we've survived it just fine, and will survive it th enext time too.

[Torched]

I have to disagree with a couple of the recommendations here, respectfully of course.  This was a hallmark of my marriage to my BPDwife, from the engagement on over 17 years.  I tried hiding my contact due to raging... .my family and I were VERY close knit prior to my relationship.  This caused me enormous anxiety.  It was like having an affair, and I still had to put up with the rages and cold shouldering because OBVIOUSLY she knew I had a family that was PROBABLY contacting me.

I put my family through an enormous amount of hurt, especially because of the alienation I allowed her to perform on my children with grandparents and sister.  They all were angry at me but now after my divorce, they understand the disease and what I went through.

I would say that it is not in your best interest to sneak around with this.  Either way you are going to experience pain and suffering.  If this is what you are going through, I don't really see how you make it through without being divorced.  I feel like I was strong enough to give my marriage more than most people could in the same situation and it led to me having an affair to get her to paint me black permanently.  Don't put yourself in a situation where you compromise yourself, that's my two cents.  Hiding things doesn't help.

[Cipher13]

This topic rings home very closely. My advice if I may is to not isolate from family in any aspect. Not even via phone or email only contact. Right now that has been my case for the last 8 years. It is terrible. I hate that I allowed this and even though I do not have kids the mere mention of my family makes her angry.

In your wife's mind if you love your mom more than her you might leave, and you can't love both your mom and your wife it must be one or the other.

This is very true for me also. I know after watching my uBPDw for years that what ever attachments she sees that I am close to are a threat. That is why I have no friends and no family. I am completely isolated from people other than work and she hates I even talk to them.

[Lucky Jim]

Hey DB77, Yes, I became isolated from my family and friends after I yielded to pressure (F-O-G) from my BPDxW.  It was easier to avoid my family than it was to face a firestorm at home.  I'm not proud of my behavior and regret that I hurt those who mean so much to me.  It all stems from a fear of abandonment on the part of the pwBPD, in my view.  To them, love is a limited resource that might run out!  Totally ridiculous, of course, but for a pwBPD, feelings are facts.  In order to change the dynamic, I suggest, one has to make a boundary to the effect that family and friends are important.  I determined that I would see my friends and family, come hell or high water, after which my BPDxW backed down.  She didn't like it, yet I refused to yield to her manipulations and decided to fight for my rights to see those closest to me.  I'm glad that I did because they helped to save me when I subsequently hit bottom.

LuckyJim

[Notwendy]

I'm not suggesting lying or being sneaky.

I'm talking about being a separate human being who can have one on one relationships with other people.

Cheating is having a one on one romantic relationship with another person. However - even a married couple is also two separate people. Marriage is not enmeshment.

People have private work relationships all the time. A doctor is not obliged ( and not allowed) to discuss patients with a spouse. This includes lawyers, teachers, and company meetings. I know that I don't share every phone conversation or social encounter with my H, and neither does he- something between two people is between them. If a friend tells me something in confidence, I can keep the confidence.

Where is the boundary? I don't cheat, I don't have a one on one meeting with a man in a romantic situation. But if someone tells me something at work- about a project we are working on- I don't have any reason to report to anyone that I spoke to Mr. X. at the office. If I happen to speak to a sibling, I don't need to report that- I can choose to, but I don't need to.

Contrast this to my parents situation where my mother read my father's emails and listened in on his conversations with me. That is a boundary violation- of his boundaries. He didn't promise at the altar to not have a one on one phone call with his family. It isn't cheating to have a private conversation with your daughter ( or parents, or siblings).

I think sometimes in marriage, the boundaries can be blurred- to the point of enmeshement. But with appropriate boundaries around the marriage vows, we can interact with others as individuals too.

[Lucky Jim]

I think sometimes in marriage, the boundaries can be blurred- to the point of enmeshment.

Agree, Notwendy.  One could say that enmeshment is a hallmark of codependency for the Non.  Isolation is a form of mind control, in my view, because one loses all perspective on the pwBPD's behavior.  What is unhealthy and outrageous becomes the new normal.  Keeping one's private conversations private is a boundary for me.

LuckyJim