Is this a charm?

[Hoodleheimer]

The break up was pretty brutal; the last time we spoke she was deliberately hurtful. I've fallen to two charms before but this break up just felt different...no way back.

A bit of time has passed and I got a call from an unknown number. After the last big argument she said just wanted a calm discussion about the return of each other's stuff and repaying money she owes. It was a completely different tone. We do have stuff to return and I know she genuinely wants it back. But there were attempts to justify how she spoke to me last time and a lot of "I hope you're happy with your new girlfriend" (I have even been on date since we split). We have loose ends to tie up but I feel vulnerable to charm. Is this indicative that one might be coming?

[Pook075]

Hello and thanks for sharing!  I'm sorry you're going through this.

I'm not familiar with the term "charm".  Could you verify what you mean by that?  I have a feeling you meant it like "she's trying to charm you back into her life"...is that correct?

For the back and forth stuff, it is justified in her mind because she's thinking about what happened from a jaded BPD lens.  It doesn't make it the truth, but it is true to her and she genuinely believes what she's saying. 

If she's trying to justify being ugly, that's her convincing herself as much as she's trying to convince you...and it's also her trying to make you understand her viewpoint.  Also, the "new girlfriend" comments are the same thing, she's justifying in her mind that you moved onto someone else.  In her mind, that makes her the victim and the bigger person for "congratulating you", even though it's just her insecurity hoping you'll profess your love for her and beg her to come back.

That doesn't mean she necessarily wants to reconcile because again, this is all disordered thinking that we can't fully understand or relate to.

The real question here is what you want.  You should meet and get her things back to her, and you should be prepared for the possibility of becoming friends again...which can lead to something else very quickly.  But that's what she could want and we're not worried about that for the moment. 

The question is what you want out of getting together- closure? Another chance? To tell her off?  There's no right or wrong answers here because it's your personal needs.  Figure that out before proceeding and a "charm" would be much less likely to work if it's not what you want.

[Hoodleheimer]

Sorry, that should have said charm, not charm. Don't know why is autocorrected to that although I suppose at times they can be one and the same.

Towards the end she started ghosting and I suspected she was cheating again. Within days she said she was back with her ex but then said she told me this just to anger me because of how I hurt her and they he was just offering support (he's been a constant annoyance throughout the relationship, obsessed with her and she's know's she can get him to do anything she wants).

Before the break up she was convinced I was cheating so maybe that and the "new girlfriend" comments are projection on her part or maybe, as you say, it makes her the victim and bigger person. It was repeated enough in a jealous fashion so I just don't know.

The return of things is necessary but there was no need for the call. She didn't really have much to propose. It was mostly the "new girlfriend" comments.

I've reached a point where I've realised that what I want and what I need are not the same thing. I miss her desperately but know the relationship will only ever be unhealthy and bad for my mental health. The thing is, it's ended before and I've always succumbed to charms. If this turns into another one I don't feel strong enough to resist.

[Hoodleheimer]

'H o o v e r' keeps correcting as charm?

[PeteWitsend]

Sounds like she's content to keep her options open and play you and this other guy off against eachother. 

I would disregard anything she tells you about whether she's with someone else or not and why... all you can be sure of is what you see with your own eyes.  Assume the worst about her or what she claims for everything outside of that. 

As far as getting your things back or your money, you might as well assume those things are gone.  She's unlikely to just give them back, because she knows as long as she has something you want, she has leverage against you and can keep engagement going with you.

does she have anything of yours that's really valuable or irreplaceable?  Was it money you need?  If not, and if you want a clean break, I would just drop her things off and then block her, and consider your things donated to the mentally ill. 

If you DO need your things and money back, I would play hardball and tell her you'll turn her stuff over once you get yours, but not until then.  And don't engage in any discussions unless they're about setting up an objective time and place to meet and exchange things... preferably somewhere in public where she won't be able to make wild claims or a scene without you having witnesses there.

[Clearmind]

'H o o v e r' keeps correcting as charm?

When discussing h o o vering in relationships with someone who has BPD, the term can sometimes suggest that only one person is responsible for the behaviour and its effects. This overlooks the fact that relationships are complicated and involve both people.

This issue highlights a larger conversation about mental health and relationships. Although people with BPD may act in "manipulative" ways like h o o vering, both partners contribute to the relationship's dynamics. The autocorrection aims to promote a more balanced understanding, recognising that both individuals play a role rather than placing all the responsibility on one person's actions or struggles.

So, in saying that....h o o vering does not and cannot exist if we don't engage - so this is how we can contribute.

We really need to stay strong and remember that our mental health has to come first, even if it means stepping back and not engaging. When we put ourselves first, we can set better boundaries, focus on our own growth, and build healthier connections with others and not expend our energy on "their" motive.

[Pook075]

I've reached a point where I've realised that what I want and what I need are not the same thing. I miss her desperately but know the relationship will only ever be unhealthy and bad for my mental health. The thing is, it's ended before and I've always succumbed to charms. If this turns into another one I don't feel strong enough to resist.

That's an incredibly wise comment and something to ponder on- is it even worth getting your stuff back?  On the flip side, you can box her stuff up and drop it off wherever she lives when she's typically at work or whatever.  That lets you literally close the door and walk away.

If you do decide to meet up though, it must be on your terms.