Communicating with BPD Ex over Children

[Pook075]

Hey friends.  I'm sort of in a bind because my daughter (non-BPD) is going through a separation with her husband due to him really messing up.  I don't want to go into details but this is 100% his fault and nobody disputes that (including him).

My kid wants to stand for the marriage and work through it.  However, my BPD ex wife is making it clear that divorce is inevitable.

Obviously these situations are mega-tough as everyone has advice.  My kid is a Christian though and doesn't believe in divorce, so it's a last-resort option for her if everything else fails.  At the same time though, she is easily influenced by those close to her and her mom's words carry weight.  I'm unsure how to intervene or if I should at all.

My ex and my daughter are in the US while I'm currently in another country, so that complicates matters as well.  I want to fly home but my kid doesn't want me to spend the money, while my current wife is telling me to go.  I'm genuinely torn.

Currently, I talk to my daughter on the phone for an hour or two almost everyday, so we're still in regular contact.  I'm unsure if I should call her mom though or if that would just make things worse.  Any advice on what I should do here?  I do have a good relationship with my BPD ex and can talk to her, but my influence is limited.

[kells76]

Currently, I talk to my daughter on the phone for an hour or two almost everyday, so we're still in regular contact.

Has your D asked you to do anything, or asked for advice?

I'm unsure if I should call her mom though or if that would just make things worse.  Any advice on what I should do here?  I do have a good relationship with my BPD ex and can talk to her, but my influence is limited.

What would be your goal in talking to your kid's mom?

What do you fear would happen if you don't talk to her?

[Notwendy]

This is your decision on what to do, but these are my thoughts.

I see some potential (Karpman) triangles here. The son in law is in persecutor position. Your D is in victim position. BPD mother has her opinion- steps in as rescuer- but with a conflicting position- and now you are considering stepping in as rescuer #2 with some hope of influencing BPD mother with a different opinion.

This makes BPD mother in the "wrong" and she will possibly see this from victim perspective.

The marriage is between the two young people- your D and SIL. You say your D wants to work on the marriage. What does SIL want to do? While the issue may be his fault, a marriage is the result of both people. If they want to repair it, each one needs to want to take responsibility for the breakdown and repair.

You've offered to come see her but she's said not to. You can be of support to her in other ways as a father- she can call you, you can advise her, but ultimately, she and her H will need to be the ones to decide on the direction their marriage will go. You can encourage her to trust her own wishes and not let other people (ie BPD mother)'s opinions sway her own.

I think that your D very much wants your approval and to do right by you, but ultimately she needs to be the one to decide on her own marriage.Just as you believe that God puts a huge importance on marriage, there's also forgiveness and grace, and unconditional love. Your D already knows your religious values and opinion on marriage- and she has her own as well to work out.

If the marriage doesn't work out, if there's more to what you know - abuse, infidelity. If her H wants to end the marriage, your D needs the security to know she has your love and approval either way.

[Pook075]

Has your D asked you to do anything, or asked for advice?

At first, my daughter asked me to come home and I agreed to book a flight; within an hour though she called me back and told me not to spend that much money.

She's also asked me to counsel her husband, but then went back on that as well because she needs me to be on her side.  I told her no problem, I'm on her side regardless, and I'd respect her wishes whatever she decided.  Then she asked her husband to reach out to me so we've talked briefly.

As you can imagine, something like this is incredibly hard at any age, and there's tons of emotions tied up in the grief process.  My kid wants her dad but doesn't want to ask directly.  For now, I'll wait until she asks me to be there.

What would be your goal in talking to your kid's mom?

What do you fear would happen if you don't talk to her?

My BPD ex walked away from our marriage to chase another man.  She also told my daughter beforehand and swore her to secrecy...which ended up destroying our father/daughter relationship for over a year.  My wife claimed abuse and irreconcilable differences- you can fill in these blanks since we've all been there. 

This process devastated my kid and once she saw how much she was manipulated, things have been rocky with her mom/my ex.  Yet, it's still mom and my kid's only 24, so she's going to her for support. 

My ex is taking the "scorched earth" approach, which my daughter disagrees with, but at the same time she'll call me with so much anger at her husband after talking to her mom.  Justifiable anger, mind you, because my son in law really messed up.  But at the same time, my daughter and her husband both want to make this work....they're in counseling, meeting with their pastor, etc.

My goal, if I were to reach out, would be to remind my ex that her faith and our daughter's wishes should come before personal judgement.  There's no win in this, I realize that, but my ex and I are on decent speaking terms and can usually have real conversations on anything regarding the kids.

If I didn't reach out, I'm worried that this remains exponentially harder on our daughter, who's already struggling.  Maybe that's just me though.

[Pook075]

If the marriage doesn't work out, if there's more to what you know - abuse, infidelity. If her H wants to end the marriage, your D needs the security to know she has your love and approval either way.

There was infidelity (he claims a one-time thing) and he abruptly decided to end the marriage.  The next day, he realized that he was out of his mind since they have two young kids and a wife that does literally everything for him.  He's begged for forgiveness the past two weeks and claims to have made massive daily changes in his outlook and lifestyle.  That's to be determined...he's saying all the right things...but my kid is no fool.  He's going to have to walk the walk as well.

And I agree, Christians are called to live in peace and I would never say, "Stand for your marriage no matter what."  She has clear biblical grounds for walking away if things can't be repaired.  She wants to try though and many of us here know how hard that is. 

I will support her no matter what and stand by her side- that's continually my daily message.

Thanks for your advice!  It does give extra perspective.

[Notwendy]

My BPD ex walked away from our marriage to chase another man. 

My goal, if I were to reach out, would be to remind my ex that her faith and our daughter's wishes should come before personal judgement. 

If you were to reach out to your ex- do you think she'd even comply? My BPD mother did what she wanted regardless of what anyone said to her. Maybe it would be better to say this to your D instead: D your faith and you and your husband's wishes are the most important factors. Others may give you advice based on their own perspectives but you and your H are the ones to decide on your marriage. Follow your own faith and wishes.

One thought, from my own memories, is that my BPD mother seemed to want to find "evidence" that I was the one with issues or who "messed up". I think in a way, this made her feel better about herself over her own issues and actions. What has happened in your own marriage is also happening in your D's. Surely you and your ex-wife have feelings about your own situation. If your ex feels any guilt about what happened and also that her actions ended the marriage- is she possibly projecting this into your D's situation. Or is she assuming the son in law is doing what she did and so the marriage needs to end like hers did?

Regardless, she's going to say what she choose to say.

I do understand the fear after your BPD ex solicited your D "to her side". BPD mother also did this with her family and my father- to "her side" when she was angry at me. I was afraid of her possibly doing this with my kids. However, your D will form a relationship with each of you based on each of you and how you interact with her.

For your D, this is a huge shock and hurt. Of course she's angry. She has every right to be angry. If this marriage is salvagable- it's going to take a lot of work and time for both your D and her H. They will have to find a way to rebuild trust- with the guidance of a professional who knows how to help a couple do this.

Your D needs to be true to herself- to see if, after working at this- she can have trust. This is different from forgiveness- she can forgive but trust needs to be earned back by her H. For her H- if they are going to stay together- he can not remain as the "bad guy" here- for her, for her parents- if he's truly made amends. For some couples, this is the deal breaker- they can't move past it. I do know of some who actually worked through this, and it's real work on both their parts.

[Pook075]

If you were to reach out to your ex- do you think she'd even comply?

If it were just my opinion, then no, my ex wouldn't listen.  But when it's a topic about God, she listens intently and prays about it.  I don't want to get into right or wrong here, but my wife still feels a lot of shame from walking away from our marriage because she knew it was un-biblical.  So that's perhaps the only topic she'll hear me 100% on, mainly because she can't understand why I wasn't mad at her or carrying a grudge. 

In some ways, I think that made it harder for her- she lashed out and was ugly, I returned it with patience and kindness.  It was not the breakup she envisioned at all.

I agree with everything else you said though, and I agree that there's no guarantees that the marriage will work.  I'd like to think I had the ability to forgive in that situation, but it's impossible to know without actually being in that situation and living it.  My ex and I never made it that far.

My daughter wants to make it work though, and this is my 2nd daughter, who's usually very mentally stable.  It's my first daughter that has BPD and could potentially be autistic.  I just realized that two topics about two different kids could be confusing.

[Notwendy]

If you think it will make a difference to speak to your ex- then do it. It's understandable that this is a potential shame trigger for her.

One idea is to make this collaborative- the two of you on the same page rather than opposing her opinion about the marriage.

"Let's be supportive of our D as she determines the best decision for her in this marriage. She will draw on her faith and will be in counseling for guidance. It's too soon for a definite decision about what to do as she and son in law will need some time to work on this."