New chapter - I need to be a better parent

[15years]

Hi, I'm back after a break here. Now moving to this "bettering" category.

We've had a third child, a girl (such a great child ). Pregnancy was a break from certain topics and fighting was less frequent and more about household issues. I knew it was temporary, I never doubted it. Now back to sexuality related topics. I am a 100 % bad person due to my actions in relation to those topics.


Now I have been more submissive the last two years and I have tried to avoid conflict by trying to do everything right, and still it's as bad as two years ago.
I think it made me a worse parent. I get irritated easily and sometimes I have trouble feeling good around them. And I have little time for them because I'm busy with my wife's requests or discussions with her.

I don't know if there's a question here, but maybe you can ask questions of me? A big problem now is a feel mute, like I have nothing to say. But I feel like a mess. And I miss being a present dad. Worried about how my boys are doing (10 and 6 years old now).

How do I talk to them about my wife's anger. "I know mom is always angry at me, I'm sorry, it must be tough for you" - "Why is she angry?", and it stops there...

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RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[wantmorepeace]

This sounds extremely difficult.  Do you have a therapist that you work with?  If so, does the therapist understand bpd?

[bluebird314]

That's a really challenging balancing act. A good therapist is great, and I also highly recommend "High Conflict Couples" and "Stop Walking on Eggshells" if you need good reads. The NEABPD 8-week courses are nice, but do take 2 hours on Friday afternoons.

An additional question, is she herself in DBT? Or seeking awareness of her state of mind, etc? One of the better things said to me here regularly is the thumb-and-hammer reality that the way our pwBPD process and ingest emotional experiences is like hitting your thumb with a hammer; can't think straight. That makes it very difficult for people in your situation.

I understand feeling closed off; it can be difficult to be yourself when your emotions feel like "the problem" (insofar as feeling as if having any of them at all simply becomes a trigger). While that might not be your unique situation, what you're feeling and experiencing is a real feeling.

My kids are older, but I've found talking about anger/ethics in general to be a better way of speaking that about their mom. My youngest (14) has asked "Why is Mom so mad" and we've talked about emotional dysregulation, but that's easier at an older age. My wife is diagnosed and open with our kids about her condition. I wish that made how she treated me / anything different, but I'm coming to terms (actively) that this may not be the case.

[ForeverDad]

I was worried that having more children would keep you even more tightly tied to her unreasonable perceptions and control.  But this is reality and we deal with it.

Have you read "An Umbrella for Alex" by Rachel Rashkin?  It's a booklet that speaks in general terms about how to explain in a general age-appropriate terms ways to deal with an angry acting-out parent or family member.  I believe it doesn't even mention diagnostic labels.  I remember getting a copy ordered online back in my early years here.  Wow, nearly 20 years ago.

If your spouse would object to the children having  counseling sessions, there might be limited resources available with clued-in school counselors.

[15years]

I think professional help would be required for her to feel better, but I don't think she can accept that her feelings isn't the whole truth. It's very unlikely that she'll seek support. She's against many contemporary ideas about sex and relationships so she'd likely just dismiss any mental professional as uninformed. She hasn't been diagnosed, not even close. Nor do I know if she really has bpd.

She can appear really fine one second, joking with the kids, being a really charming mom, the next minute she wants me to talk about some betrayal. Whenever she hasn't touched a topic for some time, she has to review it again from her current perspective.

These conversations rarely go well and it makes me so stressed I can't be present with the kids. We're both interested in the psychology behind things, so just saying things like "boys will be boys" isn't what I'm after. I try saying things like "I understand that my actions have hurt you badly", "The things that happened, I would never do again with the insight I have today" and also "I'm not yet a fully developed person but I keep learning and I'm always curious to understand how to act better". But she always wants me to explain why I did things instead. And any response she doesn't appreciate is rejected as false, even though I try to put it mildly. So she indirectly asks me to think again and say something better. Until what I say is based on the truth but isn't the whole truth. I would rather keep to present day but she always wants proof that I am no longer the same person.

I was worried that having more children would keep you even more tightly tied to her unreasonable perceptions and control.  But this is reality and we deal with it.

Not sure if it's worse, I think she has just advanced in her thoughts. She's on her own path seeking some truth in order to cope.

[wantmorepeace]

She's against many contemporary ideas about sex and relationships so she'd likely just dismiss any mental professional as uninformed. She hasn't been diagnosed, not even close. Nor do I know if she really has bpd.

The person wbpd in my life has also never been diagnosed directly as they won't seek help.  But after a therapist suggested to me that they might have bpd, I went to see a local bpd expert who confirmed that all the symptoms fit.  Having that security of diagnosis has been helpful to me.

[CC43]

. . .  the next minute she wants me to talk about some betrayal. Whenever she hasn't touched a topic for some time, she has to review it again from her current perspective.

These conversations rarely go well and it makes me so stressed I can't be present with the kids. . . . And any response she doesn't appreciate is rejected as false, even though I try to put it mildly. So she indirectly asks me to think again and say something better. Until what I say is based on the truth but isn't the whole truth. I would rather keep to present day but she always wants proof that I am no longer the same person.

Not sure if it's worse, I think she has just advanced in her thoughts. She's on her own path seeking some truth in order to cope.

OK, here's my view of what's going on here.  Your wife is re-hashing old grievances.  She wants you to "admit" to causing her distress, even if the version of the "truth" she's seeking isn't actually true.  And she goes through this routine, over and over again.  She's trying to wear you down, to get you to "confess," "atone" and pay retribution.  What she wants is for you to validate her distorted victim narrative--that you abused her, you traumatized her, and it's all your fault.  Meanwhile, she refuses to accept any responsibility for her own actions.

I've seen this dynamic play out a number of times with the pwBPD in my life.  On the one hand, she creates an elaborate victim narrative, one of feeling constantly traumatized by other people.  That way, she can blame others for all her ill feelings, while avoiding responsibility for her own life and choices.  On the other hand, I think there's a lot of deflection going on.  While she's rehashing all the old grievances, blaming you, she won't let go of the past, and in so doing, she's avoiding dealing with the present!  My observation is that the farther back in history she goes, the more she's stressed about the present and future.  It's a perverse coping mechanism, through avoidance and deflection.  It's almost like she's picking on you, to unleash her ill thoughts, as a distraction to avoid actually dealing with the present, but giving an outlet for her chaotic feelings in the process.  Oftentimes there's projection going on as well.  "You aren't the same person" could be code for how she thinks of herself.  Ditto all sorts of accusations:  "You're a liar, manipulative, selfish, lazy, unsupportive, a terrible parent!"  She's so consumed with feeling this way about herself, that she unleashes these feelings in emotional moments, blaming you of course.

What does this mean?  I think it means that no matter what you do or say, she won't feel any better, not in the long term.  You might be able to "buy" some moments of relative calm if you give in and do exactly what she wants.  But you won't solve the problem, because what she claims is the problem isn't really the problem--her negative thinking and inability to handle her emotions are.  Moreover, if you satisfy her unreasonable demands, that just gives her license to make even more unreasonable demands.  You are showing her that her outbursts get her what she wants.  In the meantime, her expectations of you and others remain totally unrealistic.  She wants devotion, attention, money, comfort, praise, adoration, servitude, etc., but to do none of the associated work herself to deserve it.  Her expectations are impossible to meet, and so she's constantly dissatisfied, and blames you.  Does that sound about right?

I think my advice would be not to get sucked into this sort of conversation, when you've already talked about it and tried to apologize, but she doesn't accept it.  You could say, "I can't change the past," and then leave the room.

[ForeverDad]

I think professional help would be required for her to feel better

Obviously, after all these years of trying, you can't lead her toward recovery.  She sees too much of a hurdle to truly listen to you due to the immense emotional baggage of the past in your close relationship.  An emotionally uninvolved professional or respected expert is typically the best hope, but there are so many ways she can sabotage that too.

She hasn't been diagnosed, not even close. Nor do I know if she really has bpd.

She can appear really fine one second, joking with the kids, being a really charming mom, the next minute she wants me to talk about some betrayal. Whenever she hasn't touched a topic for some time, she has to review it again from her current perspective.

Many of our loved ones in our lives were never diagnosed.  My ex sure wasn't, she refused any recommendations, even when our child's pediatrician tried.

My ex too could flip from one extreme to the other in a flash.  That is typical BPD behavior.  So... don't fret over a diagnostic label.  You've been here for years and we've always agreed that BPD was a strong possibility.  Deal with what patterns you see.