Apologizing because they act like a victim: always unhealthy?

[TDeer]

So my husband's family give fake apologies to his mom because she exhibits strong narcissistic traits and has BPD.

Is this healthy or not? Is it a black and white question or is there grey area? Does it depend on why? They just do it to get her off their backs, so to speak.

She loves playing the victim, so often it seems their only viable chess move is to apologize for whatever she thinks the did so that they can spend time with their non-BPD dad.

My husband doesn't want me to apologize anymore, but he did at first. I realize that if I did then I'd just be angry and that's not going to fix the situation. It's not healthy for me, but maybe it's ok for them?

[Woolspinner2000]

Hi TDeer,

You ask some great questions! Fake apologies... .I can understand why people will give them, and perhaps for them they don't mind faking it. I'm like you and it would bother me greatly to fake something like that, but they have a purpose and a goal they want to achieve. In a relationship, obviously the potential for creating additional problems down the road is quite real.

I realize that if I did then I'd just be angry and that's not going to fix the situation. It's not healthy for me, but maybe it's ok for them?

I think the key is that you said for you it is not healthy. I am glad you are comfortable in the decision you've made. Each person needs to decide what works for them in the end. What goal will you achieve but not 'faking' it? Will you feel as if you are being honest with yourself and upholding boundaries that will empower and strengthen you? Boundaries are for you, to help you, and your mother in law will not respect them. It is the way a BPD and NPD operate.

Wools

[TDeer]

I am usually comfortable not apologizing for things that aren't my fault, but I sometimes wonder about:
1. Would it be worth it to apologize "I'm sorry for you it made you feel" or something else kind of bogus, but at the same time creates fake peace at least because it neutralizes the BPD beast for a while. I find myself wondering. I realize it's no good and always come full circle again, but how do you stop the wondering?
2. It's better I guess that she's sitting waiting for me to apologize (it does play a mind game with me) because she's quiet at least. She's leaving me alone and not blowing stuff up. But how do you move beyond the mind games part? Like I just have to keep working through my own feelings which was super hard since I just the other day realized that I was embarrassed by her crazy actions. I didn't realize sooner because I was still so tied up in feeling like I should have been getting along with her somehow. Although how can you with someone so irrational, manipulative, controlling, and absolutely hates boundaries?
But I finally was able to see my embarrassment because my therapist told me that I just had to accept that that's her. Rather than feel like I should get along. It's been very freeing, but I'm not done recovery yet.

[Notwendy]

Your husband may feel there isn't another choice as his relationship with his father might be contingent on keeping his mother happy.

This was the situation with me. It was a drama triangle played out with my mother as victim, my father as rescuer. The only role I could take in that situation was persecutor.

This dynamic- mom as victim, dad as rescuer was a very strong bond between them. They had their own marital issues, but when they were bonded together looking at a common "persecutor" it seemed to be a more stable relationship for them. The "persecutor" could vary from person to person, or even be a situation- such as my mother wanting something and my father getting it for her . However, for this victim- rescuer relationship- there has to be something to rescue her from.

I didn't figure this out until I was older.  My mother would alternate being angry me or a sibling, or all of us at once. Ironically, their being angry at us helped them stay peaceful together. By then, we realized that it really wasn't about us, but a way to manage a dysfunctional relationship.

These dynamics belong to your husband and his FOO. He and his siblings have grown up in this, and learned how to play their parts in this. When kids grow up in dysfunctional families, they learn how to survive- they are dependent on their parents. Problems arise when they grow up and take these learned behaviors into other relationships- but with some personal work, they can learn to replace these behaviors with non-dysfunctional ones.

But back in their family systems, different behaviors can rock the boat. I think at this point they can decide whether to go along with it- so they can see their dad, but not be emotionally invested in the situation, or start to make changes and risk the consequences - which may affect their relationship with their father as he will likely step in to "rescue" their mother.

[TDeer]

What does rescuing look like?

They're dad isn't exactly one thing or the other. He is still married to her, they live in the same house, and they sleep in separate rooms. They have separate finances and he took up paying her share that she revoked for our wedding because I set a boundary and she acted the victim. He hasn't done much that's overtly taking up her cause. He walks out of the room when she does certain things and flat out doesn't share certain info with her.

He did tell me what and how I could apologize if I were to try to make up with her, and did say I'd have to forgive her. I think the forgiveness part is practical since he knows she's not going to fix things and a religious things. The apology I could give her he only said when I flat out asked him. She wrote me a letter apologizing but it wasn't actually an apology or taking of responsibility or anything that showed that she had any clue of what the big picture of her actions was or that she was truly sorry. She never made strides to make anything right. She's still playing the victim, but you're right that it would be unlikely for them to see their dad without their mom.

Thank you for "listening" and giving feedback. Reading is great, but conversing is good too.

[Notwendy]

He did tell me what and how I could apologize if I were to try to make up with her, and did say I'd have to forgive her.


That's a form of rescuing. When we talk about rescuing- it is on an emotional level. It is another term for enabling. Anything we do to soothe or fix someone else's emotional distress can be a form of rescuing. It is a fine line between that and being a caring supportive person. Sometimes the actions can be the same, but the difference is the motivation. Am I being helpful to someone for their sake? Or it is a form of making myself more comfortable because their distress upsets me? That would be "rescuing" them as a means of "rescuing" myself.

Your H and sibs are in a sense enabling mom- in order to have a relationship with their father. This may not be a bad thing- if it is the only way they get to see their dad- and it is their choice. I knew I had to do this too. Sometimes I could comply with her, but sometimes I could not. I had to realize that in the times I could not, I would have to also accept that my relationship with my father was affected by my choice. This wasn't a happy choice to make,  but it was the way things were. Your H is having to balance this situation as well.

In the case of my father- he would give in to my mother's demands in order to get a moment of peace for himself. I don't blame him in the sense that she can be relentless. Saying no to her could result in a raging scene. My father had to work and be a parent to us and giving in to her was sometimes all he had the time to do. But it wasn't in her best interest, as it was similar to giving in to a toddler who is tantruming when she wants a cookie. A parent knows that the best thing for the toddler is not to give her the cookie and teach her that tantruming doesn't get you what you want. But sometimes parents may give in, if they are tired or not up to doing this- and it will bring momentary peace. That's not the best thing in the long run for either of them. That- the cookie- is a form of rescuing- or enabling- the bad behavior. My mother then learned that her nagging and yelling got her what she wants- and it enabled her to act like a 2 year old.

[TDeer]

So... .Notwendy... .is there really anything I can do here that I'm not seeing?

I like to usually believe that there's always another option, but I don't think this applies in this case.


My pwBPD MIL with strong narcissistic tendencies thinks she didn't do anything wrong.

I've tried to write to her in order to open up the lines of communication, but she does suffer from the rigid BPD thinking and has "split" on me.

I guess I should just let it go, but I like to fix things and I also know it matters to my husband.

At least for now I'll let it go in the sense that I won't pursue talking to her, but I do still want to understand and I like to see if I missed anything. It does seem though, at this point, that if she wanted to get along she would have responded by now.

C'est la vie with BPD.