I almost killed myself because of this relationship - but I need help to go on

[Depression = 72% of members]

It's hard to know where to start (I'm sure you can relate). The subject line is a very - very -very bird's eye view of the situation and -- albeit true - is not specific enough to produce any momentum in resolving anything. I've just discovered this blog, and have learned and understood more about my situation in this last hour than I did in the last 20 years of trying to sort through the confusion. However, some questions still remain. Maybe I should ask, first and foremost: how do I find my boundaries and "un-codepend" myself from trying to seek control without --what I feel to be -- enabling dysfunctional behaviors of my husband that are very damaging to myself and my children?

My goals are not so much to improve this relationship (although it would be nice). My goals right now are to restore myself to being myself (I've realized that I'm co-dependent like you won't believe), and, most importantly to help my children who are spiraling down the same, very destructive path. I'll explain.

I've read a lot here about not getting into a conflict, setting boundaries and leaving emotionally abusive situations. I can do this for myself, no problem... .Well, maybe not as efficiently as I used to think that I could -- but, for example, if my husband starts putting me down and making insulting remarks, I have no problem going to another room and shutting the door. But, if I hear through that door that he is now taking this out on one of the kids, I'm going to come out of that room in a blink of an eye, and get right into the conflict: to defend them, or at least give them some emotional support and try to invalidate his derogatory statements. In fact, in my 20 year quest to cope with the situation, I've tried "letting things be": nothing good has ever come out of it. In fact, what resulted was that my daughter got very deeply hurt on one occasion, left the house and formed a very dysfunctional, codependent relationship with a drug addicts that is now (a few years later) serving a sentence on 4 counts of domestic violence (she was only 16). My son has lost all his friends (because they felt very intimidated and unwelcome coming around our house) and is hanging out with the people that I've never seen --which is very unnerving. How do I reconcile the value of not getting into the mud-wrestling with illogical, narcissistic behavior with the value of protecting my children and raising them in a loving and nurturing environment (which should include functional friends)? The value of not hurting or putting down my husband with the value of not allowing (i.e. stopping or at least attempting to stop)degrading remarks and condescending attitude rule in my house?

Another example.  I'm the one who supports the family. I'm the one who is involved with the kids, their school, their decisions, questions, and needs. I cook the meals and am responsible for keeping the house clean. I do the finances. Watch over maintenance (as much as I can). I coordinate family logistics... .He feels that "it is all on him" and "he does everything", while not taking responsibility for a single thing in our family life. One powerful illustration I still remember: the kids were little and we had no money to pay for the heat , so we were burning wood in a wood stove to stay warm. The fire went out in the middle of the night -- and here I am, 8 months pregnant, splitting wood in the garage at 3 am, to keep my two little ones in the house from freezing and thinking that I have to get up at 6:30 am and go to work, tired or not. And he is peacefully sleeping, oblivious to the whole thing. Things have improved a little bit over the years, but this is still the just of it: this is how are family tends to function.

Today, my oldest son was moving and needed help carrying in the couch. So, I stopped by our house to see if my husband would help. His response was that "he didn't just come home from work to haul couches", that "we all didn't have a brain to decide to do all this today and not tomorrow" and then he went on to holler about "more junk" that keeps coming into the house because I happened to buy  a muffin pan today. Taking the advice that I've read hear in the portal today, I told myself that I will not get into the conflict or react to his accusations (or whatever you'd term them). I interrupted and simply asked: "Are you coming or no?" The answer was no, given the choice, and I went on my own. So--flashback, flashback: here are me, my 19 year old son, and his 8.5 month pregnant wife are muscling couches out of a u-haul that we rented, as the man with a truck is watching YouTube in his rocker... .When I came home, he must have felt a small mosquito-bite prick of conscience, because Mr. Hyde was gone, and I was greeted by a loving Dr. Jerkyl... .  Normally, my reaction would be to give them a silent treatment, to demonstrate my disgust with the choice he made -- but, now knowing what I've read, I decided this would be trying to control him, manipulate him into making alternate choices... .so I went along and acted like nothing has happened. Isn't this enabling?   Isn't this a green light ticket for him to keep treating us this way? Where does my value come in, that I want to refuse to have everything piled up on me, AND then get accused of that "all I do is sleep/run around/sit on the computer/whatever-I-happen-to-be-doing-at-the-time-when-his-next-BPD-episode-strikes" while "it is all always on him"?

The advice that I'm reading is to "teach these values" later, when the situation has passed. How? If I bring this up, ever, even when he is "in a good mood" he will feel accused and judged and this will simply trigger another episode. And I've had enough conflict. I'm run down, exhausted and drained. I don't have enough strength to trigger more of it.

Another advice is, leave. This would be against my values. No, I don't mean one of those that "I don't believe in divorce".  I believe in it alright: this is my second marriage. And trust me: the thought has crossed my mind. I won't go into the details here, but suffice it to say that I pulled this person out of very sever circumstances when we first met (hence are his problems) and I cannot through out into the streets someone who is dependent on me emotionally and financially and who, I know for a fact, cannot support himself or function on his own. Besides, the feeling of betrayal that this would trigger may literally kill him.

But in trying to help him, I have lost myself, as I'm finding out. My struggle to reconcile diverse values carries over onto other people. For example, tonight was my daughter's best friend's last night out. Now, my daughter has quit her job about a month ago, and I have been warning her that she seriously needs to look for another one. In the meantime, I have given her some money. This is something I have always done: I do believe in the value of generosity, and that it is wrong to not give something to somebody in need when you have it. However--you may already see where this is going--why get a job when you can hit mom up?

Now that I have come to the realization that "no" is not part of my vocabulary, and that this turn out to be a very common trait of co-dependent people, I decided I needed to set the boundaries: if my daughter have squandered all the money away, despite my warnings -- this is NOT my problem. So, when she asked for money again for the last night out (she is the maid of honor), I said "no" -- possibly for the first time ever to her. Now I'm having all kinds of doubts. There is a voice on my shoulder telling me that giving was always part of my philosophy, and that I'm going against myself. There is another voice that is telling me that giving your children everything they ask for is very bad parenting... .
-But this was a very special occasion... .
-But it is some special need every time they ask--this is why I'm a push over, I always get talked into it. Always. Never say no.
-But she was counting on me, and my value is to never let down the people that count on me
-But it's not like I haven't warned her that I cannot be giving her money
-But maybe I was not clear enough
-What is "clear enough"?

I always felt sorry when my children got hurt though how their dad's BPD was affecting them, so I created this monster... .

Maybe it was the same problem with my son's moving today: maybe I just jump whenever one of my kids says "jump". Could have hauled the couch tomorrow, and maybe "dad' would have helped... .But if they are exited and want to sleep in a new place tonight, why oppose it and drag it out, what's wrong with just going along and making them happy... .Yeah, that's what my husband says: I'm a total pushover, and cannot ever say no... .

Anyway, you get the picture. Never got to tell my story, how I got depressed to the point of thinking suicide, and then realized that if I don't do anything about this, this condition WILL kill me, and then started to sort things out, step by step. I'll save it for another post -- it's all behind me now, anyway. The goal now is to start rebuilding. Please help me do that.

And to start rebuilding I need to resolve the confusion: if the goal is not clear, you cannot go very fast, it's like driving with a dirty windshield.

So, what is the right way to go about it? How do I reconcile the conflicting values of 1) wanting to set my boundaries WITHOUT controlling other person's behavior and 2) Allowing the behaviors that are outside of my values affect me, my children and my other relationships?

[RHVG]

It's hard to know where to start (I'm sure you can relate). The subject line is a very - very -very bird's eye view of the situation and -- albeit true - is not specific enough to produce any momentum in resolving anything. I've just discovered this blog, and have learned and understood more about my situation in this last hour than I did in the last 20 years of trying to sort through the confusion. However, some questions still remain. Maybe I should ask, first and foremost: how do I find my boundaries and "un-codepend" myself from trying to seek control without --what I feel to be -- enabling dysfunctional behaviors of my husband that are very damaging to myself and my children?

My goals are not so much to improve this relationship (although it would be nice). My goals right now are to restore myself to being myself (I've realized that I'm co-dependent like you won't believe), and, most importantly to help my children who are spiraling down the same, very destructive path. I'll explain.

I've read a lot here about not getting into a conflict, setting boundaries and leaving emotionally abusive situations. I can do this for myself, no problem... .Well, maybe not as efficiently as I used to think that I could -- but, for example, if my husband starts putting me down and making insulting remarks, I have no problem going to another room and shutting the door. But, if I hear through that door that he is now taking this out on one of the kids, I'm going to come out of that room in a blink of an eye, and get right into the conflict: to defend them, or at least give them some emotional support and try to invalidate his derogatory statements. In fact, in my 20 year quest to cope with the situation, I've tried "letting things be": nothing good has ever come out of it. In fact, what resulted was that my daughter got very deeply hurt on one occasion, left the house and formed a very dysfunctional, codependent relationship with a drug addicts that is now (a few years later) serving a sentence on 4 counts of domestic violence (she was only 16). My son has lost all his friends (because they felt very intimidated and unwelcome coming around our house) and is hanging out with the people that I've never seen --which is very unnerving. How do I reconcile the value of not getting into the mud-wrestling with illogical, narcissistic behavior with the value of protecting my children and raising them in a loving and nurturing environment (which should include functional friends)? The value of not hurting or putting down my husband with the value of not allowing (i.e. stopping or at least attempting to stop)degrading remarks and condescending attitude rule in my house?

Another example.  I'm the one who supports the family. I'm the one who is involved with the kids, their school, their decisions, questions, and needs. I cook the meals and am responsible for keeping the house clean. I do the finances. Watch over maintenance (as much as I can). I coordinate family logistics... .He feels that "it is all on him" and "he does everything", while not taking responsibility for a single thing in our family life. One powerful illustration I still remember: the kids were little and we had no money to pay for the heat , so we were burning wood in a wood stove to stay warm. The fire went out in the middle of the night -- and here I am, 8 months pregnant, splitting wood in the garage at 3 am, to keep my two little ones in the house from freezing and thinking that I have to get up at 6:30 am and go to work, tired or not. And he is peacefully sleeping, oblivious to the whole thing. Things have improved a little bit over the years, but this is still the just of it: this is how are family tends to function.

Today, my oldest son was moving and needed help carrying in the couch. So, I stopped by our house to see if my husband would help. His response was that "he didn't just come home from work to haul couches", that "we all didn't have a brain to decide to do all this today and not tomorrow" and then he went on to holler about "more junk" that keeps coming into the house because I happened to buy  a muffin pan today. Taking the advice that I've read hear in the portal today, I told myself that I will not get into the conflict or react to his accusations (or whatever you'd term them). I interrupted and simply asked: "Are you coming or no?" The answer was no, given the choice, and I went on my own. So--flashback, flashback: here are me, my 19 year old son, and his 8.5 month pregnant wife are muscling couches out of a u-haul that we rented, as the man with a truck is watching YouTube in his rocker... .When I came home, he must have felt a small mosquito-bite prick of conscience, because Mr. Hyde was gone, and I was greeted by a loving Dr. Jerkyl... .  Normally, my reaction would be to give them a silent treatment, to demonstrate my disgust with the choice he made -- but, now knowing what I've read, I decided this would be trying to control him, manipulate him into making alternate choices... .so I went along and acted like nothing has happened. Isn't this enabling?   Isn't this a green light ticket for him to keep treating us this way? Where does my value come in, that I want to refuse to have everything piled up on me, AND then get accused of that "all I do is sleep/run around/sit on the computer/whatever-I-happen-to-be-doing-at-the-time-when-his-next-BPD-episode-strikes" while "it is all always on him"?

The advice that I'm reading is to "teach these values" later, when the situation has passed. How? If I bring this up, ever, even when he is "in a good mood" he will feel accused and judged and this will simply trigger another episode. And I've had enough conflict. I'm run down, exhausted and drained. I don't have enough strength to trigger more of it.

Another advice is, leave. This would be against my values. No, I don't mean one of those that "I don't believe in divorce".  I believe in it alright: this is my second marriage. And trust me: the thought has crossed my mind. I won't go into the details here, but suffice it to say that I pulled this person out of very sever circumstances when we first met (hence are his problems) and I cannot through out into the streets someone who is dependent on me emotionally and financially and who, I know for a fact, cannot support himself or function on his own. Besides, the feeling of betrayal that this would trigger may literally kill him.

But in trying to help him, I have lost myself, as I'm finding out. My struggle to reconcile diverse values carries over onto other people. For example, tonight was my daughter's best friend's last night out. Now, my daughter has quit her job about a month ago, and I have been warning her that she seriously needs to look for another one. In the meantime, I have given her some money. This is something I have always done: I do believe in the value of generosity, and that it is wrong to not give something to somebody in need when you have it. However--you may already see where this is going--why get a job when you can hit mom up?

Now that I have come to the realization that "no" is not part of my vocabulary, and that this turn out to be a very common trait of co-dependent people, I decided I needed to set the boundaries: if my daughter have squandered all the money away, despite my warnings -- this is NOT my problem. So, when she asked for money again for the last night out (she is the maid of honor), I said "no" -- possibly for the first time ever to her. Now I'm having all kinds of doubts. There is a voice on my shoulder telling me that giving was always part of my philosophy, and that I'm going against myself. There is another voice that is telling me that giving your children everything they ask for is very bad parenting... .
-But this was a very special occasion... .
-But it is some special need every time they ask--this is why I'm a push over, I always get talked into it. Always. Never say no.
-But she was counting on me, and my value is to never let down the people that count on me
-But it's not like I haven't warned her that I cannot be giving her money
-But maybe I was not clear enough
-What is "clear enough"?

I always felt sorry when my children got hurt though how their dad's BPD was affecting them, so I created this monster... .

Maybe it was the same problem with my son's moving today: maybe I just jump whenever one of my kids says "jump". Could have hauled the couch tomorrow, and maybe "dad' would have helped... .But if they are exited and want to sleep in a new place tonight, why oppose it and drag it out, what's wrong with just going along and making them happy... .Yeah, that's what my husband says: I'm a total pushover, and cannot ever say no... .

Anyway, you get the picture. Never got to tell my story, how I got depressed to the point of thinking suicide, and then realized that if I don't do anything about this, this condition WILL kill me, and then started to sort things out, step by step. I'll save it for another post -- it's all behind me now, anyway. The goal now is to start rebuilding. Please help me do that.

And to start rebuilding I need to resolve the confusion: if the goal is not clear, you cannot go very fast, it's like driving with a dirty windshield.

So, what is the right way to go about it? How do I reconcile the conflicting values of 1) wanting to set my boundaries WITHOUT controlling other person's behavior and 2) Allowing the behaviors that are outside of my values affect me, my children and my other relationships?

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[WifeOfProbableBP]

Oh my gosh. That has to be SO tough for you to deal with. I feel for you & I'm sending good vibes your way. I don't have kids, so I don't feel like I have the expertise to give you any advice. But I would highly suggest seeking help from a counselor if you're not already.