Father with BPD

[Depression = 72% of members]

Hello everyone:

I'm new here. Have come here needing help because I'm about to resume communication with my father after five months of no contact.

Yesterday he sent me a short email in response to a blog post I wrote about my brother who died by suicide in October.

I've always had difficulty with my dad but my brother's death has brought it all to the forefront.

At the funeral, his primary need was that my sister and I surround him and give him what he needed - despite the fact that we were dealing with intense grief after two months of trying to help my brother, as well as the immediate needs of planning the funeral, twice driving five hours (there and back) to the city where he'd died to clean out his rented room, view his body, collect his ashes, calling all of his friends, supporting my mom, arranging for out-of-town guests, etc.

My brother reached out to my dad at the very beginning of his 'break down' but my dad did not respond except to send him some money. He didn't call me or my sister to say, 'something weird is going on with your brother'... .

At the funeral, my dad initially wanted to set up a table 'show-casing' his relationship with my brother - but we nixed that and said that he could simply send us photos to add to ours. It was totally inappropriate since he'd basically abandoned my brother. He also wanted to read a poem which I said no to, because if my mom wouldn't be (emotionally) able to speak, we didn't think it appropriate that he speak.

There's more to it: his wife (the woman he cheated on my mom with and who initiated a friendship with my mom during the affair and even threw a wedding shower for my sister - while the affair was going on) stepped forward to offer thoughts on flower/urn/portrait arrangements to which my mother (of course) freaked out. After the service, my dad then spent the entire reception consumed with making sure that his attachment to his wife was clearly seen (ie. he cornered my cousin to talk to her about how her parents had been accepting of his 'new' relationship - they've been together for 25 yrs, btw - and asked an old family friend if she ever had any problems with him and his new wife being together).  

A week after the funeral, his wife wrote my sister a long angry letter accusing us of not spending enough time with my dad, not letting him put up pictures, and defending my dad as a good father to our brother. We didn't respond to her letter but a month and a bit later, after my dad called and left a message, I wrote to him to express my anger in an email, explaining my complaints that he was more concerned with his own needs than everything we'd been through, that we'd been simply too busy to see him, that his wife sending that letter one week after our brother died was cruel, etc, and he responded by saying that he 'didn't deserve any of it' and that I was 'journalling out my anger, as you do'.

So, now he's sent me this email, and it's a tiny little email although I've been spending hours trying to decipher it - of course - and trying to figure out how to respond.

On the surface, it looks like a very simple email: he says 'as your father, I'm sorry that you're hurting' (what I read into that: control - "I'm your father" and that I was a good sister to my brother and he was lucky to have me (what I read into that: 'you're not a good daughter' and 'poor me, I don't have a sister like you'

I guess in general I'm trying to figure out how to go forward with him, and the most immediate need is thoughts on responding to this email.

I've accepted that none of my earlier thoughts/feelings will be addressed or validated, that he'll never say to me "you had to clean out your brother's horrifying rooming house room overlooking the garage where he hung himself - how awful for you' - which would go such a long way... .

Right now, I guess my options are probably just to say 'thanks for your sympathies' and leave it at that, or to be truer to myself and add on: "actually, that blog post was about coming to terms with his death and finding peace" and "I'm not trying to be a 'good sister' - I just loved my brother". (Although from experience I'm pretty sure he'll read any clarification/expression of my feelings as disagreement and hostility). And is there even any point in these explanations? Or is this just my child-self desperate to be seen?

I'm so confused!  

Thanks you for any thoughts that you might have... .& for reading this far!  

[writerspice]

Hello everyone:

I'm new here. Have come here needing help because I'm about to resume communication with my father after five months of no contact.

Yesterday he sent me a short email in response to a blog post I wrote about my brother who died by suicide in October.

I've always had difficulty with my dad but my brother's death has brought it all to the forefront.

At the funeral, his primary need was that my sister and I surround him and give him what he needed - despite the fact that we were dealing with intense grief after two months of trying to help my brother, as well as the immediate needs of planning the funeral, twice driving five hours (there and back) to the city where he'd died to clean out his rented room, view his body, collect his ashes, calling all of his friends, supporting my mom, arranging for out-of-town guests, etc.

My brother reached out to my dad at the very beginning of his 'break down' but my dad did not respond except to send him some money. He didn't call me or my sister to say, 'something weird is going on with your brother'... .

At the funeral, my dad initially wanted to set up a table 'show-casing' his relationship with my brother - but we nixed that and said that he could simply send us photos to add to ours. It was totally inappropriate since he'd basically abandoned my brother. He also wanted to read a poem which I said no to, because if my mom wouldn't be (emotionally) able to speak, we didn't think it appropriate that he speak.

There's more to it: his wife (the woman he cheated on my mom with and who initiated a friendship with my mom during the affair and even threw a wedding shower for my sister - while the affair was going on) stepped forward to offer thoughts on flower/urn/portrait arrangements to which my mother (of course) freaked out. After the service, my dad then spent the entire reception consumed with making sure that his attachment to his wife was clearly seen (ie. he cornered my cousin to talk to her about how her parents had been accepting of his 'new' relationship - they've been together for 25 yrs, btw - and asked an old family friend if she ever had any problems with him and his new wife being together).  

A week after the funeral, his wife wrote my sister a long angry letter accusing us of not spending enough time with my dad, not letting him put up pictures, and defending my dad as a good father to our brother. We didn't respond to her letter but a month and a bit later, after my dad called and left a message, I wrote to him to express my anger in an email, explaining my complaints that he was more concerned with his own needs than everything we'd been through, that we'd been simply too busy to see him, that his wife sending that letter one week after our brother died was cruel, etc, and he responded by saying that he 'didn't deserve any of it' and that I was 'journalling out my anger, as you do'.

So, now he's sent me this email, and it's a tiny little email although I've been spending hours trying to decipher it - of course - and trying to figure out how to respond.

On the surface, it looks like a very simple email: he says 'as your father, I'm sorry that you're hurting' (what I read into that: control - "I'm your father" and that I was a good sister to my brother and he was lucky to have me (what I read into that: 'you're not a good daughter' and 'poor me, I don't have a sister like you'

I guess in general I'm trying to figure out how to go forward with him, and the most immediate need is thoughts on responding to this email.

I've accepted that none of my earlier thoughts/feelings will be addressed or validated, that he'll never say to me "you had to clean out your brother's horrifying rooming house room overlooking the garage where he hung himself - how awful for you' - which would go such a long way... .

Right now, I guess my options are probably just to say 'thanks for your sympathies' and leave it at that, or to be truer to myself and add on: "actually, that blog post was about coming to terms with his death and finding peace" and "I'm not trying to be a 'good sister' - I just loved my brother". (Although from experience I'm pretty sure he'll read any clarification/expression of my feelings as disagreement and hostility). And is there even any point in these explanations? Or is this just my child-self desperate to be seen?

I'm so confused!  

Thanks you for any thoughts that you might have... .& for reading this far!  

[writerspice]

I realize upon reading this over again that it sounds like I may be the one with BPD... .LOL... .Sorry to jump in so abruptly and expect help. It's just his email sent me into a panic. For months I've been actually allowing myself to grieve my brother without feeling the need to take care of him (I was the one who always went running as a child) and now I'm trying to figure out how to change... .If anyone out there has a bit of wisdom to share, I'd truly welcome it. TY. 

[Naughty Nibbler]

Welcome writerspice:   
I'm so sorry about the loss of your brother and then the difficulty with you dad.     Has your dad ever been treated for BPD (therapy and/or meds)? 

My brother reached out to my dad at the very beginning of his 'break down' but my dad did not respond except to send him some money. He didn't call me or my sister to say, 'something weird is going on with your brother'... .I've always had difficulty with my dad but my brother's death has brought it all to the forefront. . . We were dealing with intense grief after two months of trying to help my brother. . .

What was going on with your brother 2 months before his death? You say he had a breakdown. Was he dealing with depression?  Am I correct in understanding that other family members interacted with your brother, after the time he called your dad to ask for help?  Did your dad share exactly what your brother asked for, when he called your dad?  Could your dad have sent your brother money for medical care, or was your brother having financial hardship in general?

How old was your brother?  You say he lived 2.5 hours away from you. How close did he live to your father?  Did your brother have prior episodes with suicidal ideation? 

It's so hard when you lose a loved one and emotions are high for all family members.  Anger is part of the grieving process, and with a suicide, there has to be a lot more anger involved.  It can seem natural to want to blame someone, but no one is responsible for the emotions and actions of another.

A week after the funeral, his wife wrote my sister a long angry letter accusing us of not spending enough time with my dad, not letting him put up pictures, and defending my dad as a good father to our brother. We didn't respond to her letter but a month and a bit later, after my dad called and left a message, I wrote to him to express my anger in an email   

I'm sorry that your father's wife sent an angry email.  That was the wrong thing to do. 

One thing to do is to privately write 3 different responses to your dad. (not on a blog).  Write one where you let out all your feelings and don't hold anything back.  Take your time with it.  You won't want to send that letter.  It is for you and will help you process your anger.  You may want to eventually do something symbolic with it - burn it, shred it, etc.  Then, write a 2nd response that is very polite and kind.  After that, write a 3rd that is somewhere between the very polite one and the very angry one. 

If you want to send something to your dad right away, you could start with the polite response.  Then, you could take some time to come up with a more detailed letter to send at a later date. (but not the long angry one.)

It could be helpful to process your feelings in regard to your relationship with your dad, how his BPD affected the way you were treated and the situation with the divorce. You might want to look at the Survivor's Guide in the right hand margin.  It can be helpful to use to process your feelings.

You say that is has been 25 years since your father left your mom and married his current wife.  I can hear that the whole situation was very hurtful to you, your mom and your siblings.  How often have you seen and been in contact with your dad over the 25 years?

Have you thought about getting some therapy?  It can help to have a professional guide you through things. It is best to use some strategic communication skills, when interacting with people with BPD (pwBPD).

For months I've been actually allowing myself to grieve my brother without feeling the need to take care of him (I was the one who always went running as a child) and now I'm trying to figure out how to change... .

In what way did you go running as a child?  Prior to the 2 months before your brother's suicide, what were some of the most disturbing behaviors your dad exhibited?

[writerspice]

Thanks so much for responding... .& for your thoughts and suggestions and validations... .I think I haven't been very clear, as the situation is so long and complicated (like everyone's I appreciate your interest though and it'll help me to share it I think. Yes, I'm seeing a counsellor (mostly for grief) but I've been away from home for a bit (helping my mom through a surgery mainly) and haven't seen her in awhile. I'm hoping to find someone more long term to help me deal with these issues.

I actually don't live 2.5 hours from where my brother lived -or where he was living when he died. I live two flights away (or a 36 hour drive). My mom lives the 2.5 hours and I was home with my husband to help with arrangements.

My dad has been treated in the past for depression. I think at the time of my parent's divorce he may have looked at BPD but I'm not sure. He's also a sex addict. My brother was diagnosed with Aspergers in 2012, after his first (and only other) suicide attempt, and also suffered with chronic depression, likely head trauma from a car accident he and my mom were in and BPD tendencies (I don't believe he was BPD as he could reflect on his own mistakes and didn't always try to blame everyone else - but he certainly picked up a lot of habits - ie. anger - from my dad). When he died, however, he was in the midst of an acute delusional disorder, believing that he was being 'hunted' by the mafia. He abandoned his apartment and took off to a nearby city.

He called or emailed my dad (who lives a 7-hour drive away from the town where he was) to ask for some money and also to get in touch with my uncle (my dad's brother) who is a retired cop and lives in the area where my brother was (as does my aunt). My uncle met with my brother and afterwards immediately phoned my dad to say something was up with my brother and that he needed help. My dad did nothing. Didn't call me (the closest emotionally to my brother next to my mom). He sent my brother money and then emailed my brother about four times asking only if he got it. My brother eventually emailed him back (I know all this because my brother left me his passwords so I've looked) and said, 'I can't check email often, dad, I'm on the run, I'm hiding out.' My dad did not respond, did not call us, nothing.

Finally, I received word when a nurse from a psych unit called me saying my brother had checked himself in because he 'wasn't sure what was real'. We (my mom, sister and I) tried to talk him into going to my mother's place, but he took off and disappeared for awhile, and then re-emerged via text.

Every day I'd text with him, trying to figure things out and to get him to get help. About a month into the two months (so late Sept - he died Oct 15), I went home from some work stuff and while there, my mother and I drove over to try to get him into the hospital but he wouldn't come with us because he was too afraid... .(and, in case you're wondering, we know this is delusion because he sent us a 50 page document detailing the whole thing including all the "signs" he saw that explained to him what was going on).

Finally he ended up in the hospital on a 72-hour hold but they let him out for repeated smoke breaks - despite the fact that my sister, cousin, mother and I were calling to tell them he was directly telling us he was going to kill himself - and eventually the last doctor on call assumed he was simply homeless and looking for a bed so when my brother disappeared on a smoke break, nothing was done. They didn't even call us. Finally, when he wasn't answering my texts, I called the hospital (this would have been 16 hours after he left and he was already long dead) and they told me he'd left.

I recognize the anger part, and certainly I feel that - at the hospital, especially (we'll be filing an official complaint and looked into a lawsuit but my mother, who's 75, doesn't want to spend the last years of her life heart-deep in this pain).

I don't blame my dad for my brother's suicide and have told him that (that was part of the email sent last fall that he dismissed as my 'journalling'.

I wish that he'd alerted us and, yeah, I don't understand his lack of concern. But my brother was a suicide risk for years, did not know how to help himself, and finally just, I guess, 'broke'. Anyway, I think now that the argument I have with my father about his lack of care and concern for my brother - (ie. when my brother's best friend died and my brother wanted to go to our hometown to his funeral, my dad and his wife refused to let him stay with them and didn't even offer to reserve him a hotel room, just nothing, just no) - is irrelevant because they had their own relationship and I will never understand.  

My blog post was not about any anger. It was about my brother's birthday and how  I'm finally realizing that perhaps he's now at peace. I'm a professional writer and don't use my blog to passive-aggressively communicate with my dad.

I've been in contact with my dad on and off over the years. Christmas, birthdays, some visits. Things were very rocky after the divorce but I've gradually learned that if I keep my mouth shut, don't say what I really think if it's different from what my dad thinks, and be unfailingly polite and 'happy', then everything's fine. Tired of it. Had an argument with him a year ago this past fall when I was visiting because I had some work stuff nearby and he was arguing with me about what I wanted to order for lunch because I guess I wanted the 'wrong thing'. It escalated and finally he said, "Why can't you just put a smile on your face!" That about sums it up - or, also, a memory from when I was very angry with him as a child (I don't remember about what) and we didn't talk at all about the anger. Instead, he forced me to say, "I love you" and I remember how toxic those words felt coming out of my mouth.  

The most disturbing behaviours? Probably the fact that he drilled a peephole through the floor of my sister's bedroom so he could spy on her. Or maybe the fact that he told my mother he'd kill her if she ever left him. Or the times he'd pull his shotgun out of the closet and just sit with it, threatening either to off himself or the rest of us if we didn't convince him of our love for him. Or maybe when I was three and he was trying to teach me to write small a's and I couldn't get the line straight and I was crying so hard I couldn't breath. Typical BPD stuff? Not the worst I've read here but I feel like it all just keeps surging up like cold water.

What I meant by I'd go 'running' is that when he'd have a temper tantrum or burst into tears at the dining room table - because my brother disagreed with him about something or was just trying to have, you know, a conversation - and then rush off to his bedroom, I'd be the one who'd repeatedly get up and go after him. I'd lay with him on my parent's bed, comforting him. That became my role.

Thanks for listening, again. Sorry so long... .I did write him back (needed to get it over with). This is what I said:

Thank you for your sympathy.

I guess I was a 'good sister' in the sense that I tried to listen to [my brother] and to stick by him but [brother] and I had a lot of fights and estrangements, starting after I went to university and started expressing my own thoughts.

After I moved out west (following his first suicide attempt), we fought, then didn't speak for six months. When we reunited it was to see his counsellor so that we could have a mediator help us through the trouble spots. That helped a lot - but our relationship was never 'perfect'. Even our last conversation was a fight, during which I said some things I deeply regret.

I appreciate that you feel for me - and I feel for you as well, because I know the past months have probably been very hard for you, as they have for us all. To clear something up: I don't blame you for [brother]'s suicide and never have (as I said in that earlier email) - that's different from not understanding your thoughts about/actions around him and his needs.

My silence comes from two things: 1) how I felt totally dismissed and invalidated after I emailed you last December (while also accepting that a lot of my anger seemed to be more about [his wife] than about you) and 2) the fact that you told [my sister] that you wanted to refrain from communicating with her and I for awhile - so, I'm respecting that.

For myself, I'm not sure how to go forward without the ability to talk about the hard things. I don't think that I'm always right but in most adult communication in my experience the dialogue goes back and forth until people at least feel heard.
 

[Naughty Nibbler]

Hi again writerspice:   
Your letter to your dad was open and honest and had a good tone to it.   

Yes, I'm seeing a counselor (mostly for grief) but I've been away from home for a bit (helping my mom through a surgery mainly) and haven't seen her in awhile. I'm hoping to find someone more long term to help me deal with these issues.

That sounds like a good plan.  If your dad is open to talk about the hard things, have you thought about using a therapist to facilitate a discussion.  Sounds like you don't live close enough to have a joint office visit with a therapist.  Perhaps you could find someone who does web/phone therapy.

Is your dad in his 70's?  Sounds like it was very traumatic when your parents divorced.  Do you think your mother is better off in any regard because of the divorce? 

Any thoughts on your dad's 2nd marriage.  Do you think it has lasted 25 years because his 2nd wife is perhaps codependent?

The most disturbing behaviors? Probably the fact that he drilled a peephole through the floor of my sister's bedroom so he could spy on her. Or maybe the fact that he told my mother he'd kill her if she ever left him. Or the times he'd pull his shotgun out of the closet and just sit with it, threatening either to off himself or the rest of us if we didn't convince him of our love for him.   

Those are very disturbing situations.  How old were you when your parents divorced?  Do you know if your dad has continued the threats and gun behavior with his 2nd wife? 

My dad has been treated in the past for depression. I think at the time of my parent's divorce he may have looked at BPD but I'm not sure. He's also a sex addict. My brother was diagnosed with Aspergers in 2012, after his first (and only other) suicide attempt, and also suffered with chronic depression, likely head trauma from a car accident he and my mom were in and BPD tendencies (I don't believe he was BPD as he could reflect on his own mistakes and didn't always try to blame everyone else - but he certainly picked up a lot of habits - ie. anger - from my dad). When he died, however, he was in the midst of an acute delusional disorder, believing that he was being 'hunted' by the mafia. He abandoned his apartment and took off to a nearby city.

Your brother's story is very sad and tragic.  When is comes to mental illness, things can be very complex and confusing.  I've read many heartbreaking stories here.  If you read some of the stories from the Parenting Board, you will find that in many situations, no matter how much you love someone with mental illness, no matter how much you try to fix them/help them, none of us have the power to save them.  For the most part, you can't keep them in a facility or keep them on certain meds.

I live in California.  I frequent a large park, where I go to walk my dog.  I've come to accept that there will always be mentally ill people in the park.  The vast majority of them are male.  Some of the same ones, I've seen for years.  Occasionally, I happen upon those who are clearly paranoid and somewhat combative.  I experienced that situation a couple of months ago

More recently, the police shot and killed a mentally ill man in the same park.  One side of the park has multiple baseball fields, and the mentally ill man was threatening people with a bat and a broken bottle. 

What I meant by I'd go 'running' is that when he'd have a temper tantrum or burst into tears at the dining room table - because my brother disagreed with him about something or was just trying to have, you know, a conversation - and then rush off to his bedroom, I'd be the one who'd repeatedly get up and go after him. I'd lay with him on my parent's bed, comforting him. That became my role.

Do you think that your comforting your dad might qualify as emotional incest.  That must have been an uncomfortable situation for you to be the one to comfort your dad.  What did your mom do in these situations?  This type of situation is discussed in the link below.

Have you Experienced Emotional Incest in your Family?

[writerspice]

Hi: thanks for your reply again I appreciate your thoughts on the letter as I've not had a reply from my dad and I keep having to remind myself that I'm doing the best I can, that I can't change him, that he'll make his choices, that I can only be true to myself, that I shouldn't feel guilty, etc.

I do think my childhood experiences qualify as 'emotional incest'. There was also plenty of sexualization of my sister and, to a lesser degree, myself. I will look more into that. Thank you.

My mom was certainly better off after my parents split. I was 18 and am the youngest so both my siblings had left home. My mom had a long second relationship with a man who was in some ways a better father to me than my dad.

Yes, I think my dad's second wife is also PD and most certainly co-dependent. I remember my dad starting to cry once, a year or so ago (I'm 44, he's 75) when we were visiting and I told them a story about how I almost drowned when I was eleven and his wife turning to me and saying, Now you have to go to him (!). Needless to say, I didn't and let him sort it out for himself. 

That's an awful story about the shooting in your park.  Yes, it is hard to deal with people who are very lost. I appreciate your thoughts on how it is impossible to save them. Certainly I've gone through a lot (a lot) of guilt and 'what if's' around my brother's death. I'm in a Sibling Suicide Survivors Facebook group which helps.

[Naughty Nibbler]

Hey writerspice  

My mom was certainly better off after my parents split.  My mom had a long second relationship with a man who was in some ways a better father to me than my dad.  

 I'm glad that your mom was able to move on to a better life.

Yes, I think my dad's second wife is also PD and most certainly co-dependent. I remember my dad starting to cry once, a year or so ago (I'm 44, he's 75) when we were visiting and I told them a story about how I almost drowned when I was eleven and his wife turning to me and saying, Now you have to go to him (!). Needless to say, I didn't and let him sort it out for himself.

It was the right move on your part to let him sort things out on his own.  His second wife does sound like a caretaker, a common coupling for a pwBPD.  It explains her email and likely other things through the years.  (she wants everyone to care take your dad) Her enabling has helped you dad to maintain his BPD behavior.

I've gone through a lot (a lot) of guilt and 'what if's' around my brother's death. I'm in a Sibling Suicide Survivors Facebook group which helps.    

Good to hear that the survivor's group is helpful.  There can be some value in looking in the rear view mirror, for the healing process, but at some point, the healthy thing to do is to focus on the road ahead.  In regard to "what if's", the likelihood is that the end result wouldn't have been different, but may have been deferred.

Some people find solace in getting involved with a cause related to a loved one's death.  Perhaps for you, it might center around supporting suicide prevention causes or some local mental health cause (perhaps supporting homeless mentally ill). Perhaps you use your writing skills and share your journey of healing somewhere, in addition to the Facebook Group.

You are heading in a healthy direction.  Keep fighting off the guilt, writing, posting and work the Survivor's Guide in the margin to the right.  

Best wishes.