kicking daughter out - she's only 20 - has anyone gone through this?

[ParentBPDgirl]

So I see a lot about people trying to deal with or manage their child, but I've got a 20 year old who we're in the process of kicking out. She has until March 8, and she hasn't even packed.

She's stopped her medicine, stopped her treatment, and upped her verbal abuse of everyone. She goes from saying horrible things about how her brothers are better and we love them more to how we should have never had her, but still, won't get help, won't clean, won't do chores, etc. So she has to leave.

Has anyone else gone through this 'having to kick out your child' before they were actually ready? It's a situation where on the one hand we're saying we love you, but on the other we're saying 'but due to your choices, you have to leave and not come back.'

Right now she's telling me if I treated her differently, and loved her more or something it'd be all better.

Has anyone gone through this? I feel we'll lose contact with her after a few rough rough phone calls with her asking for money or a place to stay.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[WifeOfProbableBP]

Hmm, I have no kids, so I'm afraid I'm not qualified to give you advice. It sounds like a tough choice to make. You said she stopped her "treatment." Did part of her treatment include seeing a mental health professional? If so, maybe you could ask for their opinion on the subject.
I've read that some common traits of BPs is fear of abandonment & them feeling like you don't think they exist when you're not together. So maybe there is a possibility that she would keep in contact to ensure that you don't forget about her or emotionally abandon her. I know my BP husband can't stand when I cut off communication with him. He will go to extreme lengths to make himself visible & heard. That being said, he rarely contacts his mother. However, he left home by choice when he was really young, so that may be a different dynamic than what's going on in your household.

[7babies]

I wish I knew the answer Parent. My DD is still a senior in high school but I can see what you are describing happening. I do understand needing your house and home to be tolerable and yet putting a kid you love out with no supports is gut wrenching. Hopefully someone can give you better advice. I just wanted to let you know I'm sending you good vibes.

[incadove]

Can you provide any kind of staged support after she is out, so that she has a less black and white situation?  If there is some amount of support you're willing to give her, then provide that, and keep the amount of distance you need to be safe while checking with her that she is ok.  Perhaps make a specific offer to get together and buy her a meal once a week, and give her positive feedback on any efforts she's making to get a job or otherwise be independent.  Try to treat it as a challenge to be professional and positive even if she is provocative.

That's the best advice I can offer.  I don't know if my daughters were BPD or not, I felt some of the traits for sure, but they probably didn't have it fully and have done well despite echoing a lot of that 'if you had loved me more it would have been fine' sentiment.  They were in fact abandoned by their mother and suffered abuse at a fairly young age.  I think young adulthood is a very scary time for BPD or abandonment issues and it brings back behaviours from a younger age.

Maybe make it not sound so permanent, - due to your choices, you have to leave at this time.  If you wish to live here you have to convince me that you will in fact abide by specific rules.    Its like a combination of emotional support but firm consequences.  I don't know, its really hard, I feel for you.  Make sure you get emotional support as well so you can handle what comes.

[RunningWithScissors]

I like incadove's suggestion of linking the consequences to behaviours.  It boils it all down to a clear and impeccably consistent relationship between 'If X... .then Y'. 

And yes, my husband and I had to 'kick out' a sixteen year old - that is, from his perspective, we kicked him out.  After numerous discussions and family meetings, we drafted up a series of house rules that applied to everyone in the house (kids and adults alike).  Needless to say, he made it a point not to follow any rules or contribute in any way to the household but wanted all the privileges.  When his behaviour escalated to threats and actual physical violence against his father and younger sibling, we told him his behaviour was unacceptable if he intended to stay at home.  We presented it as a choice:  'You can do whatever you want, but if you want to live at home, you need to follow house rules like everyone else'.  He chose to leave.

Of course, he played the victim role quite well, and stayed with parent of a schoolmate.  At least, until they started to impose house rules and expectations of their own.  He didn't realize that the other parents had contacted us, and the four of us met to discuss the situation.  He did return home for a short time, but again, couldn't stand our 'abuse' and decided to leave for another province with a friend who was going to university.  Since then, he's overcome many challenges, has learned through the school of hard knocks, has willingly undergone years of DBT and is now living independently very successfully.  My husband and I firmly believe that his living on his own was critical to him overcoming the limitations imposed by his BPD.  Although we were always in contact and offered emotional support and problem solving options (which he usually rejected out of principle), we made it clear that we would not support him financially.  He still has challenges to face, such as finishing his education, but he's doing great. 

I hope this tale offers some solace and hope.  It took us many years to learn how essential strong boundaries are, and how to define the limits of what we were responsible for, but ultimately, the journey has been enlightening for us all.

[ParentBPDgirl]

Thank you all. ... .Running with Scissors, that was helpful. We do and are planning to try and maintain contact with her, but she is off and on again with us.

Incadove, I love your ideas, but the staged support we were trying to set up in place, she doesn't want. We told her she can come over for dinner any time, that we would take her to family gatherings and celebrations, and help with medicine and therapy costs. Hopefully she'll stay in contact - I do believe she will stay in contact for a while.

She's supposed to move out Monday/Tuesday, but hasn't packed and hasn't come home since the other night.

[RunningWithScissors]

A tidbit I picked up from another website (EmpoweringParents.com) is that kids who need to learn independence the most are the ones who will protest the most.  Of course all advice needs to be taken with a grain of salt as the BPD diagnosis has implications for our kids' ability to adapt to change and learn new skills.

You know your child best, but sometimes they're capable of more than we believe.  Often, parents and other loved ones are the ones that see the meltdowns since we're the 'safe place'.  It's tough to define loving, supportive but assertive boundaries.

[Gorges]

Yes, I have gone through this starting when my daughter was 18.  This summer she raged against me and my son.  I asked her to leave and she was taken by my husband to my in-laws.  She begged to come back and agreed she would follow rules.  Several weeks later she called me a the B-word and that was enough for me to ask her to leave.  She was 18 at that point, graduated high school and I knew she would not "grow out of it" as my husband hoped.   She stayed with a friend and then eventually her grandparents.  Then she was off to college.  My husband and I went to a therapist all Fall because he wanted me to put up with her abuse yet it got to a point where I was willing to divorce my husband if I had to continue to live with it.  We came up with a contract with the help of a therapist.  Over Thanksgiving break, my husband got fed up with my daughter and encouraged her to go back to her dorm for the rest of break.  Christmas break was fine.  3 weeks ago my daughter decided to take a leave of absence from college and live at home with us.  We said she couldn't and if she was not going to stay in school she had to find an apartment and support herself.   She had a major meltdown and threatened to kill herself, but (and I can't believe I am saying this) we stayed firm. My daughter did end up finding an apartment and is working 2 jobs and so far supporting herself.  We interact and I do take her to yoga classes (she asked if I could).  She has been pleasant, kind and happy.  She regrets leaving college but is planning on returning in the fall.  She is clean and responsible in her new apartment.  She pays for everything (except yoga classes with me) by herself.   It was hard but I kept telling myself "even birds push their young out the nest".  We were lucky in that she landed on her feet without a lot of drama as far as physically getting her to move out of the house.  I wish she did not take such a difficult path, but it is her path.

[momwhocares]

Hi there, we are kicking our 32 year old daughter out and she is threatening to sue us. She has gotten legal advice and they tell her she has tenant rights, (to our home) and that we have to pay her $6000 or she will not leave.  It started when we allowed her to stay with us while she and her husband got on their feet. Only weeks after she moved in her husband divorced her.  We now believe this was the out he was looking for. She was only married for a few months.  This was the longest relationship she ever had.  After 15 year of distructive relationships, we hoped she had changed.  She left home in the middle of her senior year of
HS and started a long history of bad behavior and verbal abuse against us whenever things went wrong. She did drugs, drank to excess, and had a string of crazy boyfriends.   We had to move her over 12 times when these relationships failed and she usually ended up with a bag of clothes. We gave her money, furniture, paid for counslers and tried everything we could.   This time has been as bad as ever but, I have developed heart problems and suffer from high blood pressure. She is destroying my health and I can no longer go on with this. I always had hope that this time she would have changed, but that is magical thinking.  Do what you have to do to get your child out now. It will not get better, but they find a way to get by once they are out.

[7babies]

Just hoping yesterday went ok.

[ParentBPDgirl]

Hi everyone,

Gorges, I needed your post tonight. It was really helpful.

 7babies, tonight is rough, she is downstairs screaming she can't leave and isn't ready and isn't going to leave, and we just had an hour and a half discussion where she exhibited every behavior that isn't okay, that is WHY she has to leave.  Swearing and such, saying she's not ready. If only I listened, if only I cared, if only I'd compromise, if only I'd blah blah. She wouldn't have to yell at me if this or that... .ugh.

She doesn't want to move where she's moving because everyone smokes. I told her finally I was done. She was leaving tomorrow. And hopefully she'd find a better place soon. I did say we're having her leave the house, not the family, and we could build from there, but then she said I never wanted her.

 Then, realizing I was never going to get to an end in the conversation, I told her this wasn't helping or getting us anywhere, so I was leaving, and now I'm upstairs. My sons are hiding in their room and my husband has been sitting upstairs silently praying I didn't cave. He talked to HIS psych today who said this was the right decision.

I think you're right momwhocares, they do find their way, and they really won't, unless we force them to.

And Gorges, yes, she is fighting it the most, but needs it the most.

The most frustrating thing is she is downstairs having an 'episode' as she calls it, of feelings, where she just cries and cries and she's done this so often, that literally my sons are immune to it, they are just playing their games, and that makes me sad. No one can currently go downstairs.

We gave her a deadline and I told my husband if for some bizarre reason she really didn't leave, we'd change the locks this weekend. I hope it doesn't come to that. I WANT to have communication, but I won't be emotionally abused in my own home anymore.

I will update tomorrow  I'm so glad this board is here. I know we're all struggling in our own ways.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[7babies]

I am so sorry. I totally know the things she was saying and understand your pain. You know they have to go but your mama heart is screaming to help them. It is very hard to see their sibs mentally move away but I understand it too. I will be thinking of you and hoping it goes as smoothly as it can.

[Blueskyday]

Hi, I had to ask my 17yr old to leave. Actually it was on the advice of a therapsit who said I was dealing with horrific emotional abuse. She would rage until the stress made me ill and then attack me when I was at my weakest. Everyone was told what a monster I am. She is very good at being a victim. She got pregnant at 21 after doing the coke and other stuff. Baby Daddy belongs to another woman. There were death threats against her and the whole thing became years long trauma. Of course, she was completely without fault. Everyone else was to blame inspite of the fact she got the baby Daddy arrested because he reacted badly to her pregnancy. He wouldnt have hurt her. He was just confused and felt trapped. His gf then proceeded to threaten her.

She found her way because no one rescued her totally. I have to admit the rescuing by me continued but at least I could come home and close my door to the abuse.

You will be ok. You have a husband and support. I got through and I am alone. Be strong and decide to take care of your needs. You can be there for her when you have the strenght this way

[RunningWithScissors]

Momwhocares - I just noticed the mention of a husband in your post about your daughter.  If she was married, then she is legally no longer your dependent.  I would suggest getting legal advice, but her threats about suing you are likely just posturing and manipulation. 

In other words, she's pushing the 'F' button of FOG.  Take care.

[mybabygirl23]

I'm in the same situation and really struggling. I let my 20 year old move back in with me last summer after she broke up with her boyfriend that she was living with, lost her job and get arrested for drunk driving! I thought letting her live with me would help her get her life back on track but unfortunately its had the exact opposite effect. She keeps losing jobs, spends every cent she makes and then doesn't have money to pay her bills... .and really frustrating for me, doesn't respect any of my boundaries. Since telling her I was done, she has been really nice and says she feels like I hate her. Our lease isn't up until the end of Aug so there isn't much I can do until then but there are days i'd rather just move out now and let her live there until the lease is up - that however, would be extremely expensive for me and put me thousands of dollars in debt. Every day is a struggle and taking a huge toll on me.

[Lollypop]

Hi there banbygirl

I wanted to say that I'm sorry your daughters behaviour is causing you such pain and problems. I'm having it too with my bods26 but he's a quiet BPD and is paying towards his living hosts but there are still problems.  Problems that I'm struggling to handle at the moment but it's a matter of keeping perspective for me.  Im working out what I need to do next as far as introducing new boundaries or limits. I'm fortunate as I'm not financially reliant on my BPDs so if my boundary of rent isn't kept I'll ask him to leave.

It sounds like you need some better boundaries and limits if you're going to stay on living with your daughter for your own sake.  Here's a link to the thread that will help you understand the difference between a boundary (your moral or value) secured with 6ft thick concrete always with a consequence and then limits which are Day to say stuff about living at home (flexible).

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=61684.0

I hope this helps you

Hugs

LP

[Someday . . .]

I'm of the school that the louder a person screams and cries, the more in pain they are.  With that being said, can you have authentic, and vulnerable discussions?  I HIGHLY recommend watching McLean Hospitals Webinars.  Do a search on McLean Hospital webinars BPD family initiative.  These are the best videos I have ever seen.  The topics are wide ranging given by experts in a clear and concise way.
I do understand not wanting to be treated poorly and yes, I do understand, that setting limits is important.  With that being said, coming from a place of care and compassion is all anyone really wants - especially someone who has BPD.
Best of luck to you, I sincerely hope that all turns out well.

[going places]

Yes, I told my (then) 20 year old daughter to go.
She had a place (her dad) so it's not like I put her to the curb.

She was breaking the law in so many ways, her laziness and hostility was unbearable.
I also had an undiagnosed and untreated issue at the time too (MDD/PTSD).
It was like a molatov cocktail.

Things went from bad to worse with her.
Her dad partied w her and her underage friends, zero supervision/support.
She started doing heavy drugs, running with bad folks, watching a horrible example, etc.
Got pregnant, and her dad said he was taking her off his insurance, and when the baby came, she had to go, so she married a guy she knew for 4 months.
Suicide attempts, (3) 72 hour holds in the psych ward... .and now she has lost custody of her 7 month old daughter.
She was told by the judge to get her crap together, get a job, etc.
Instead she is meeting men in different states that she found on Tinder.
She is drunk, every day. She has no job, a POC car, etc... .

She is a full blown alcoholic, anorexic, etc.
The people she is around now, turn a blind eye to her drinking... .

She has not spoken to me since I put her out.
We did email a few times, and it was her telling me how much she hates me.
Ironically, everything her dad did to me and the family, she has somehow managed to twist it to *I* did it?
Her last email to me was 'if you email me again I will kill myself and it will be all your fault and you will have to live with it".

Had I been healthy, I would have committed to ride that roller coaster with her.
If she called me today and said 'mom, i need help' I would welcome her with open arms... .
For whatever reason, God has not allowed this... .

She is full of rage, anger, hate. Every single bit of it is directed at me... .

[Franchesca]

Just hoping yesterday went ok.

My daughter is not far off 20. We are struggling as a family to cope but for once some of understand her distress is part of her acting out. We have twiced almost come to the point of removing her from home as her illness takes it toll on all family members. I am determined and have drawn a line in the sand that my husband and I will do our very best to help her over the next three years. Then we will have to let her go! I was made to leave home at 17 by my BPD mum for her boyfriend. It is far too young to be on your own. But as a family we all have to make a choice we have to live with