Is this "the discard"?

[Breathe066]

After several days of cylcling between friendly messages and angry, derogatory ones, my estranged husband suddenly became very civil and kind--over night. Ad now he's talking to me as if I am the pwBPD.
I do miss him, or, at least, the him that was not yelling, screaming, drunken, verbally and emotionally abusive, wildly insecure and delusional. Oh, and dishonest. And, yes, unfaithful, too but that happened a week after he left so, in his book, that's ok. For him.
There was/is quite a bit more to him than that. He is good looking, very intelligent, charming, fun (when he's not preoccupied with delusions that I am unfaithful--unfortunately that became an extremely rare condition for him; he was constantly accusing me of having affairs with everyone from the grocery clerk to a rock star I haven't seen since I was a groupie in the 80s).
I miss so much about him that there are days, like today, that are almost unbearable. I thought about suicide today. I did. I wish I could say I hadn't and that I didn't, but there are days when I miss him so much that my life feels hollow, the world looks ugly and alienating, and I wonder why the f*** I am on this earth. I push those thoughts away, of course, I'm not suicidal, but I  miss him. Being in love with him and having that amazing sunlamp of his love focused on me so exclusively and overwhelmingly at the start has left quite an impression.
I also just miss the things about him that were him. I miss the way he feels next to me, his smell, the way he walks, the way his shirt hangs on him, the way he would just kiss me out of the blue. So much.
And so I told him so. I told him I miss him.
He replied "I don't regret out relationship. I regret some of the things I did and said. I am ashamed of them. But I don't regret us. I am going to work on me. I suggest you work on you."
How did he do that? Twenty-four hours after he sent me a two-page email recapping everything he ever suspected of me and chock full of weird "evidence" that he was only a "placeholder" for me, he suddenly sounds like Deepak Chopra. How is that possible? Is it because he just doesn't care anymore, he has no investment in the relationship so he's discarding me? He said there is absolutely no hope for a reconciliation.
I feel awful, like I'm such a mess that he's left me.
My counselor says that when I send "needy" messages to him, I'm just empowering him and justifying his position. That's the way he sees it anyway, like "she misses me--therefore I was right and she was wrong," like a 12 year-old.
Advice? Is this a stage? What comes next?
 

[roberto516]

First of all, let me send hugs your way. Second, I also got the "I need to work on me". Then I was recycled and got another "I need to work on me. I'm not well." It seems to me like it's a push-pull with him. Push you away and then pull you back in just enough. I'm sorry you're going through this. I can relate all too much. None of this is intentional. I'd get furious and say mean things until I realized she knew no better. She should. She's an adult. But this is a personality disorder. It's who they are. It's maddening for us. Especially if we love/display codependent traits. I pity her now. It makes it easier to not hate her. And easier to forget her.

What came next for me was I stopped begging and within a week she was crazily trying to reach out to me. Which I fell for. I don't know why will happen at the other extreme. BUT I do know that if you don't feed in and engage him he will want you back for all the wrong reasons so you can be discarded again. Please believe me. It's happened to all of us it seems.

[Ahoy]

Hi Breathe,

I say this often lately it seems but this is another important reminder as I feel is pertinent to your case.

Don't hold on to the words that are said!

I understand this more and more as time passes. Whatever is said, is said in the moment and from someone who may have dysfunctional coping mechanisms.

Trust in actions and actions ONLY. Once you do this, it will help you clearly see that this is someone who is (likely) unable to maintain a healthy adult relationship.


Reading and re-reading emails he sends is a fruitless venture because how he feels after sending them may have already changed. If my personal experience is anything to go by, it will only serve to confuse you more and ultimately delay breaking free of your FOG.

Look at his actions, look at them with a critical eye and see what this shows about his character. What do you see? is this someone you ACTUALLY want to spend the rest of your life with.

I'm guessing the answer will be no. If it is, then look at WHY you are feeling what you feel, the need to contact him after he has clearly asked you to stop.

Once you can begin to understand your motivations, your true healing will begin =)

[happendtome]

How can you say that he is now changed when he just days ago was completely different? Building trust takes years, it wont happen in weeks. So if you want to see has he changed let him be that Deepak Chopra one year at least.

[Pretty Woman]

I love your phrase regarding Depak Chopra. .

Mine would go from a raving lunatic to this Buddhist Zen Monk of sorts, as if someone hit a personality switch. She could be insulting, demeaning, cold and cunning and then seconds later talk about how peaceful her life was and how I brought a raging storm to her calm center.

It's all crazy-making behavior.

As I mentioned in another recent post and as some have said in this very post, look at his actions NOT his words. People will SHOW you who they really are. You can be the greatest public speaker and still be an a-hole. Look at all the politicians out there for cry-eye.

It's never in the words, it's in the actions.

Persons with BPD are extremely insecure. They often use projection as a deflection of their own poor behavior. When your ex accuses YOU of cheating it's often because he is. If your ex says you don't give a shi_ and are selfish, only thinking about YOURSELF, it is because he doesn't give a shi_, is selfish and is only thinking about HIMSELF.

It's all deflection and when you are in close proximity to it, it's easy to start to believe those words and take them to heart. Please do not do this to yourself.

My ex was very attractive and I was very insecure. My insecurities led me to believe I would never find anyone like her again.

Two years later I can say with confidence... .THANK GOD for that!

Who wants a person who is ugly on the inside? A person that makes you feel terrible 90% of the time you are with them? That is NOT a way to live. I promise you there is better out there. I am living proof of this. You need to get stronger, which takes time and again... .

it's not in the words, it's in his ACTIONS. THAT is who he is at his core.

[AustenJ]

Most people in a nonBPD relationship would not even stand for being treated like crap 10% of the time, let alone 90%! It just goes to show how incredibly fast and how deeply we become enmeshed with borderlines and how much crap we will put up with!

How many of us would have stayed if only 80% of the time was abusive?

[Breathe066]

Ahoy,
Actually he was the one who initiated contact and he becomes angry and frustrated when I don't communicate. And, truthfully, I want to communicate with him. I worry about him. I love him. And I worry if I don't hear from him. Sadly, it looks as though what he says really doesn't mean much to him.

[Pretty Woman]

That is a great question.

Had she not have left me for another I would have endured 100% abuse.

Isn't that sad? That is how poorly I though of and respected myself. I would have stayed just because I didn't want to be alone... .
yet I WAS alone. She was never vested in the same relationship I was vested in. Why be miserable for no reason, right?

This is why I am such a strong supporter of NC. NC was imposed upon me, I never had a choice, however it was in the end the best thing because I had to gain my footing again, I had to muddle through the crap alone... .and in the process, in the still and sometimes deeply painful silence I gained deeper insight into myself. It allowed me time alone with my thoughts. Did I obsess? Sure. Do I still sometimes obsess? Yes. I realized I have some pretty deep seeded issues I need to work on.

I am hoarder. When I say "hoarder" I don't mean I keep gum wrappers and toenail clippings. I am talking Louis Vuitton bags, expensive watches... .five designer blouses in different colors.

To fill my void, my emptiness I shop. Thank God I am primarily a Maxxinista and not a Nordstroms shopper overall. I am not in debt but I have spent thousands on things I never wear or even use. To avoid working on myself I shop. I spend.

Is that healthy? No. And I am now working with a therapist on this.

When my ex hit me, the only time she hit me, I stopped sleeping in my master bedroom. It became a giant closet. I would toss all my clothes, bags, everything in there. I associated so much trauma with being hit there, I fill that space with whatever sense of "happy" I can find... .outside of myself.

So I see I have issues that were NOT compatible with my ex and likely carry disorders myself. The difference is I am aware of these and working hard on them so I don't hurt others. I am blessed to have a very supportive girlfriend who gets it. She is helping me work through this stuff along with professionals.

Again, if I was still with my ex I would likely be spiraling out of control. I would likely be unemployed, 100lbs overweight and horribly depressed and to be honest, I cannot put that all on her. This is NOT all her fault.

I take responsibility for my part in this. NC truly has helped me find myself again and that is really what it's for. It's not to win back your ex... .it's not meant to manipulate a person or situation. It's to help you heal.

We need to remember that on here.

Breathe, You may love him, you may miss him but keep in mind, his actions are very selfish. It is ALL about him and that won't ever change. Where was he when you really needed him?

Of course he is mad when you don't respond. It's ALL about his needs being met and not yours. A BPD relationship is one sided, it is never mutually rewarding unless you are both into abuse and not having your needs met which all of us are entitled to.

[happendtome]

Pretty Woman is right, No Contact is for us. Even though we may not realize that at first. For example, my first reason for no contact was to manipulate my ex. That she would start to reply me. In the way that she would say how much she is missing me etc.
But when time goes on and you stick with no contact you eventually start to come out from the fog and you begin to see things in different light. At one point you may not miss your ex at all anymore. It may take time, but finally you will see that there wasnt anything what you should have been missed at first place. Quite opposite, you are feeling enjoyment that you are free. I still sometimes miss my ex, but i see each day more and more that if i would be with her i would have to do this and this and this and always be careful not to upset her. Basically, when i was with my ex i wasnt even able to read anything. Isnt that silly? There was no time for that even though we basically did "nothing". I was sitting in the couch, always trying to please her and avoiding conflicts. I couldnt talk about things, because i knew she always had different view than i did. I was empty soul.

[Pretty Woman]

HappenedtoMe,
    Isn't it nice to not have to walk on eggshells anymore?

I remember a month after the final discard, I was walking outside. It was a beautiful fall evening and the only sound was the crunching of leaves under my feet. For the first time in years I was actually IN THE MOMENT. It was just me in nature. I was looking at the branches of a tree, pondering how old it was, where I was in my life, or if I was even alive when that tree was first planted. I thought about what the world was like 30 years ago, if that is how old I speculated the tree to be. I thought about the journey of my life. The journey of this tree, firmly grounded.

In my relationship I was so preoccupied with how my ex would react that I tried to stay a step ahead of her. That's when my hording got really bad. I started shopping because it filled a void in me. I had to be almost completely empty, emotionaless to keep her from leaving.

That walk made me realize just how much I was missing out on. All my thoughts were on her and nothing else. Here I am this creative person, with a lot of ideas and a lot of energy putting everything into a person who was never deserving of my efforts. It's as if I gave up on my life... .
for three years. I lost the end of my 30's. For what?

I think when these relationships end we are really more mad at ourselves than we let on. We are mad we wasted our time on these people. I know as I walked outside it was very cathartic, I even started to cry. I needed to release all the emotions I stuffed down for three years trying to appease this person who still left regardless of how hard I tried to make myself "un leavable". My ex was very challenging and would criticize my thoughts or opinions. It was nice to be alone with my thoughts and validating of them. It was in that moment I realized what I think of myself is what matters, not what others think. I am firmly grounded like that tree. Things are always changing around me but I am who I am and it is important to nourish myself with good, supportive people and thoughts.

We really are our own worst enemy... .not our exes. Our thoughts about ourselves make a huge difference on how we move forward when our relationship ends. I truly believe this.

[once removed]

Is this a stage? What comes next?
 

do you intend to find out? you dont have to be passive or watching from the back seat. if you want to learn to better communicate with him, i encourage you to work the Improving board.

[happendtome]

HappenedtoMe,
    Isn't it nice to not have to walk on eggshells anymore?

It is, even though there are still some moments left when i dont think that way, but im getting to the point where i understand that it wasnt for me. I liked your writing where you said you were doing these walks outside. I did the same, I had my autumn, i had my winter. I went outside, did my cross country skiing. Just enjoyed snow and sunshine and my amateur movement and i liked that. This was time for myself again. And i understood that i couldnt have done this with her. Im not ready to write down my experience. I am embarassed, but i am healing. I feel that. After all, even if i dont find anyone, i know that i can make it on my own. And its sunny again, summer is coming.

[FallenOne]

I think a good question to ask is... "Why do we feel like we can't do things with them? Why can't we do things with them?"

During our honeymoon phase of the first year, we did everything together. She enjoyed doing anything with me, as long as it was with me...

Eventually she started to enjoy doing things with me less and less, or just complained about what we did. Made it sound like I was dragging her along with me... Yet, I always asked her to give input on what she wanted to do... Never did though. She would say that "I always turned down her ideas" even though I barely ever did... And then when I decided on something we could do, she would say "you're just dragging me along to do what you wanna do... " Maddening...

In the past year or so of the relationship, all we did was sit indoors and do things... We never made anymore plans... Rarely. When we did she sabotaged them somehow.

So, I think it's good to ask this question. How did things shift from enjoying doing anything/everything together to this idea that we just have to do whatever it takes to please them? I wound up only doing things that she would also enjoy. I couldn't watch movies she didn't like, I couldn't listen to music if it gave her a headache, I couldn't read a book cause' I was ignoring her, I couldn't go out for too long or be with my friends or I was up to something, I couldn't sit on my behind and play a video game because it was boring for her, I couldn't sleep in late because she didn't get to...

Why does the relationship take that turn? Why do we feel like we have to push everything about ourselves aside for them? Why do they stop enjoying the time they spend with us when in the beginning they enjoyed it so much? Nothing changed... We're still the same person they started dating. We're still doing the same things and saying the same things that they said they loved about us and doing with us, yet they are no longer happy with it suddenly?

After being enmeshed with mine for a while, eventually I needed some breathing space and explained to her how it wasn't healthy for us to spend 24x7 together, and that we need to do things by ourselves, or with friends (we used to do this and it suddenly stopped). She agreed with my point of view in these conversations. But, any time I would go do things by myself, or with my friends, even though she said it was okay, her entire mood and personality would change as soon as I went and did these things... I could sense it in her texts, or random phone calls, or in her sour mood when I returned...

Why tell someone it's okay to go and do something separately but then act like it's not afterward?

When I would return, she would normally have the "uggh what took you so long?" attitude rather than asking me about my ventures or what I did or if I had a good time.

It was clearly all about her.

[happendtome]

Yes, FallenOne, i can relate so much what you wrote and yes, if i think, it was all about her. I had to be with her, but i couldnt do nothing. I dont watch much TV, but if there was something, she didnt like it. I now wonder how she must have been felt when it was love bombing phase, making good face and feeling inside why, oh why.

It would be much easier if we dont have to pretend and can be honest to each other. But still, it was my fault also, it takes two to tango. I tolerated this. There were good things too, not everything was bad and if i would know how to help her or "fix" her, i would do it. But i dont know.

So we have to acknowledge that we must think about ourselves. There are lots of problems in the world and even if it sounds selfish, we dont have to deal with every problem we happen to see or experience. Every lesson will teach us something and the important thing is not to forget what we have already learned. That will change the world in the end.