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Author Topic: Is anyone bulletproof?  (Read 670 times)
AustenJ
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« on: April 19, 2017, 10:07:10 AM »

Many posters have shared that they are psychologists/therapists/counselors which I would have thought would be an occupation where one would be immune to the manipulations of pwBPD.

What people/occupations are bulletproof to the siren songs of pwBPD?

My brother is a social worker and was involved with a pwBPD, but was immediately able to identify this individual as such and exit the relationship immediately.

I'm a teacher because I'm a helper, fixer, rescuer, just a mere mortal when it comes to machinations of pwBPD, the Medusas who change are hearts to stone.


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roberto516
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« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2017, 10:17:51 AM »

I know we aren't supposed to reveal our professions. So this guy I know got with a BPD and he is a therapist. Two things contributed to it. The valuation phase was very effective, and that was combined with that person's faulty relationship mechanism of being a rescuer. And then there is a psychological effect called the sunk-cost fallacy where people don't leave damaging situations because of what they have invested. On second thought, that person would have ran for the hills. But in that moment it was a perfect storm for the BPD person to lure them in.

I don't think it's a profession so much as it is one's personality. If one has respect for themselves it's easier.

My problem was I spent 2 years pushing away alot of decent women so I finally wanted to try a relationship again because I didn't want to run away fearing that I was keeping people away because I got hurt again. Just my two cents on the matter.
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“Pain and suffering are always inevitable for a large intelligence and a deep heart. The really great men must, I think, have great sadness on earth.”
JaxWest
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« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2017, 10:27:52 AM »

I am in education. I am a fixer as well and give people the benefit of the doubt (too much sometimes). Despite a couple of friends warning me to stay away, I rationalized her behavior, which is not good. That is what my counselor has told me. I try to see good in people, which gets me in trouble sometimes.
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statsattack
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« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2017, 10:35:51 AM »

If your naive and stupid you are bulletproof from the truth
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kentavr3
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« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2017, 10:54:23 AM »

 I would not say, that anyone is proof. BPD pushes on holes that created in your childhood. Once you treat your childhood, I think you can raise your level of proof.
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chillamom
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« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2017, 12:26:10 PM »

Well, AustenJ, having a doctorate in psychology didn't help me one damn bit, although I have to say my intuition was shouting at me from the git go.  I chalked it up to the fact that I'm an industrial psychologist and work with employee motivation and NOT with clinical situations, so that's my excuse.  I think self-esteem and FOO issues can affect individuals in any profession, and that to me is the heart of it.  If you feel good enough about yourself that the appeal to rescue and flattery don't impact you so strongly, then you would probably run.  As for me, I could see it for what it was (because he was pretty transparent about his illness, although it was diagnosed as bipolar at the time), but I thought I could handle it.  NOT.
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« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2017, 01:24:41 PM »

remember, this is a mental illness. people with BPD dont have magical powers to lure us in like sirens or change our hearts to stone.

seeing ourselves this way, seeing others this way, is what makes us vulnerable.

26% of the population at any given time suffers a form of mental illness (including depression, anxiety, etc). far more have traits. difficult, challenging people are everywhere.

what makes a person "bulletproof"? good boundaries. a firm idea of what is a healthy relationship and what isnt. a strong, grounded person, who knows how to assert their needs without persecuting, be vulnerable without being a victim, and helpful without rescuing.

a spell wasnt cast on us. we were drawn to, and overwhelmed by the dysfunction, and we contributed to it with our own. recognize that. address it. learn some better tools to deal with difficult people when you have to, and better navigate the world. thats how we can benefit  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)
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Icefog
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« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2017, 02:05:45 PM »

In my case my ex BPD is very high functioning and presented very well and is also in the helping profession. I did have alarm bells going off when I initially went to the residence she lived in as it was not what I would consider to be a standard of living I would subscribe too. Being non judgmental and a rescuer I overlooked her residence and chalked it up to a mother raising two children on a limited salary and passed it off as economics. Then as the relationship progressed other things I overlooked were a chaotic family of origin that she was enmeshed in, an adoptive family and a adopted mother she never attached to, a teenage pregnancy and the subsequent adoption of her child, her professed victimization by all her partners (which turned out to be false), her need for attention, her dysfunctional and PD peer group, her poor parenting skills and her substance misuse and partying. I overlooked all of these things due to being madly in love with her (love bombing) and a honeymoon period that lasted a protracted period of time. Keep in mind I am in the helping profession and it was easy for me to want to help her... .and I did it standing on my head... .for two years... .until I was so exhausted I had to leave. At the time I did not know why I was so tired and it wasn't until after I got out of the environment that I realized what it was. Also keep in mind that I am an individual with very good boundaries and assertiveness skills. I work forensics and you need to stand with both feet firmly planted on the ground. When I left the environment I didn't leave the relationship. I limited my time. That's when she started to unravel and seemingly viewed me as abandoning her however she never stated this. Instead she internalized her anger and the devaluation began unbeknownst to me until after she left... .very abruptly. I am also an individual who is attracted to BPD traits as some of them are very exciting to me. That is my work to do. The BPD disorder is complex and the people attracted to BPD individuals don't always recognize the traits until they are well into the dysfunction or well out of it. Then throw in enmeshment, kids, finances, attraction etc etc and it becomes more difficult to leave. I am continually amazed at what I didn't see as are many others who fell victim to my BPD ex. Most have left town or have no contact. The one father of her child will not under any circumstances be around with her... .period and has no relationship with his son as she lied in court and restricted his contact.  Her family members(biological and adopted) have almost no contact, her son who was adopted out has very little contact and many other people she befriended over the years are long gone. Its very sad really... .and I didn't see any of it as pathology due to lies, rationalizations and her professing victimization... .in short I wanted to believe because I loved her. I now question everything about our relationship and everything she ever told me and believe that most of it was distorted to manipulate and continue to be a fraudulent person... .whether conscious or unconscious. Suffice it to say I have learned a valuable lesson and now wear a bulletproof vest. As Optimus Rhyme succinctly put it "no one that has ever bought into a BPD relationship has been pleased with their investment".         
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Gear Jammer

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« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2017, 01:39:51 AM »

Once you've been with a BPD your awareness heightens you know the red flags to look for.
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JaxWest
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« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2017, 08:49:16 AM »

Once you've been with a BPD your awareness heightens you know the red flags to look for.

I fell for it a 2nd time, even with all of the red flags. I like to think of myself as pretty intelligent, but I overlooked multiple signs.
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Gear Jammer

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« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2017, 02:57:21 PM »

With myself I try to find out if she has any family issues what is her relationship with her father like if I hear anything that raises my suspicions I stop interacting with her.
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Claycrusher
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« Reply #11 on: April 20, 2017, 07:17:22 PM »

Many posters have shared that they are psychologists/therapists/counselors which I would have thought would be an occupation where one would be immune to the manipulations of pwBPD.

A background in psychology doesn't necessarily make one immune from the manipulations of a pwBPD.

Using myself as an example, I got involved with my ex-wife even though I "knew better."  I stayed in the relationship long after I should have bailed on it.  I figured out that she was highly symptomatic for BPD long after I should have, but once I figured it out, I didn't waste any time seeking to terminate the relationship.

On the day that I chose to "redefine the nature of our association," my ex-wife informed me that she was over three months pregnant with our child.  Instead of sticking to the plan of terminating the relationship, I married my ex-wife, instead.  I made that decision because I believed that the innocent life form I helped create would be better off if he had a full-time moderating influence to disordered parenting.  I knew going in that the marriage would be challenging and that it would very likely end before "death did us part."

Excerpt
What people/occupations are bulletproof to the siren songs of pwBPD?

It's a "people thing" more than an "occupation thing" in my opinion.

Using myself as an example, I was about 18 months out of a tenure in law enforcement when I met my ex-wife.  So, I have that strong helper instinct thing going on.  On top of that, I have an addictive personality.  I got seriously addicted to adrenaline during my tenure in law enforcement.  Sex with my ex provided the "fix" for that like nothing else.  Those things are in essence forms of co-dependency.

Someone without the issues I bring to the table would arguably be inherently more immune to the "siren song" than I was.

In my defense, though, my "first date" with my ex-wife wasn't.

I was a licensed hunting and fishing guide when that "first date" happened.  My ex wife manipulated it in to happening.

She was able to do that because she became friends with my sister and another woman through mutual employment at the same place doing the same work.  My sister was trying to manipulate that other woman and I becoming a couple, so she brought me up frequently in conversation, engaging in "aggressive marketing".  That wasn't intended for my ex-wife's benefit, but she was present for most of it.

My ex-wife used the information my sister threw out there to manipulate our "first date" in to being.  Her motivation for doing this was that she wanted a "tool" she could use to either support her or help her support herself, hopefully to and through a college degree.  She told my sister that she had seen the movie "A River Runs Through It" and wanted to try fly fishing, which features prominently in that film.  Well, I was a fledgling fly fishing guide, at the time... .  My sister did me a favor by bringing my ex-wife over to discuss the service I offered.  My ex-wife booked a trip with me.  That was our "first date."

After the trip concluded, my ex-wife called me and said she wanted to go fishing again.  I deflected, telling her I had pretty much shown her everything I could, and referred her to other guides.  She said she was thinking more in terms of a date than a business relationship.  I told her that I didn't have a habit of dating clients and really didn't have time for a relationship, as I was trying to get my business going on a solid foundation.  The ex wife persisted, though, and I told her to give me a couple of weeks to think it over.  My sister got involved, asking me what harm there was in going out with a girl who obviously wanted to go out with me, stating "It's just a date, not matrimony."  So with my sister applying a little pressure, too, I relented and agreed to go out on a date with my future ex-wife.

My education and training and professional experience wasn't a kind of crystal ball that would magically let me know that my sister's friend had already formulated a delusion of grandeur in which she would manipulate a man in to serving as her tool for a specific purpose of supporting her to and through a college degree.  There's no way I could have known that at the time. 

Back then, I had no reason to believe that she had lied to my sister about a desire to fly fish stemming from watching a movie.  But that's what she did.  She hadn't seen A River Runs Through It until long after we were married.  She had no real interest in fly fishing, either.  She knew I was single, that when I couldn't find a job, I had the "stones" to create one, and she knew pretty much everything there was to know about me, thanks to my sister, including that I was (and still am) a passionate fly fisher.  It was all theater, with mirroring thrown in, and I don't think I could have seen it for what it was, no matter how much education in psychology I might have had.

Excerpt
My brother is a social worker and was involved with a pwBPD, but was immediately able to identify this individual as such and exit the relationship immediately.

I'm a teacher because I'm a helper, fixer, rescuer, just a mere mortal when it comes to machinations of pwBPD, the Medusas who change are hearts to stone.

PwBPD aren't magic.  They can't lure someone who doesn't want to be lured by them.  My ex-wife might have been looking for a "tool" and had me all picked out as a potential victim before I even met her, but I didn't have to be that "tool" for her.  The reason it WAS me and not some other guy is almost entirely my own doing.  I had plenty of reason to terminate the relationship long before I first determined that I wanted to and made a free-will decision not to do so.

At the time we met, I was a virgin.  I adhered to strong faith-based convictions about pre-marital sex.  I made those convictions clear to my ex-wife on our first real date.  She demonstrated how much respect she had for them (and, by extension, me) by engaging in very overt sexually seductive behavior.  I should have terminated the relationship within weeks of entering it, but I made the decision not to.  I could have made a different decision.   I had lots of those opportunities and didn't take them.

My ex-wife didn't do anything magical to cause me to be in a toxic relationship with her for 18 years of my life.  That is my fault, not hers.  If I had stuck to my faith-based convictions in dealing with her, my relationship with her would have ended before it really got started.  I wouldn't have lost my virginity to her, addicted myself to sex with her, or spawned a child with her.  Even after doing all of that, I didn't have to get married to her.  I made that decision and thus I have to take full ownership of everything else that followed.

That, I am willing to do.

Making the same series of mistakes that led me to divorce from a pwBPD after an 18 year long relationship, however, is something I have no interest or willingness to repeat.
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