If you're conflicted, think twice...

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

It's been a while since I posted on the board, but I have been quite down lately and wanted to off-load a little.

After a couple of months of no contact, my ex sent me a message. I had by that stage recognised that it was pointless trying to save the relationship and that being with someone who was emotionally abusive would eventually destroy me. Although I was, and still am, lonely as hell, I just knew deep in my heart I could not be in that relationship. After the main break up, we did get back together. But here's the thing, whilst it was amazing, I knew that there was no trust. He was coming back to me whilst at the same time looking for someone else.

Anyhow, when he contacted me after a couple of months I was off the idea of us. I responded though. Politely. Formally. I suspect he wanted something more than just a polite response. He wanted me to beg him, to tell him I wanted him back. I guess this because that's what he's like, he likes to be wanted. He has a big ego. I know that he wanted me to massage his ego. He always said he does not do the chasing. But after so long I wasn't prepared to play ball and for this reason he cut off communication yet again. And what surprised me was just how horrible I felt afterwards. The moment I had seen that he had cut me off, I just felt that I had been rejected all over again - even though I was the one who had no interest in playing the game. I feel like I am licking my wounds again. And it hurts.

I entitled this post, if you're conflicted, think twice. And my point is this - there is no stability in these kind of relationships and that is something to keep in mind. A person with mental health issues needs to take responsibility and seek help. If he or she does not, then it is likely that any such relationship with them will always be unstable. And even though you may feel you can cope with that, it is likely it will cause you pain as I feel now even just after a simple exchange. When he cut me off again I just felt invalidated. I shouldn't have felt that way, but I did. If I was dealing with someone who did not have control issues, the outcome would have been different. He  would have chatted and told me what he was feeling and we could have talked through that. But my ex wanted control. He wanted me to express missing him so he could tell me how to fix myself in order to be with him. And when he didn't get this, it was time to remove me again. Think twice. We partners are also guilty of splitting in the sense that whilst a person with BPD splits us bad, we tend to split them as good - remembering the good and finding excuses for the bad.

If you're  conflicted, please think twice. You may love your ex, but does he or she want something mutual, or just to control?

[K.G.]

It's been a while since I posted on the board, but I have been quite down lately and wanted to off-load a little.

After a couple of months of no contact, my ex sent me a message. I had by that stage recognised that it was pointless trying to save the relationship and that being with someone who was emotionally abusive would eventually destroy me. Although I was, and still am, lonely as hell, I just knew deep in my heart I could not be in that relationship. After the main break up, we did get back together. But here's the thing, whilst it was amazing, I knew that there was no trust. He was coming back to me whilst at the same time looking for someone else.

Anyhow, when he contacted me after a couple of months I was off the idea of us. I responded though. Politely. Formally. I suspect he wanted something more than just a polite response. He wanted me to beg him, to tell him I wanted him back. I guess this because that's what he's like, he likes to be wanted. He has a big ego. I know that he wanted me to massage his ego. He always said he does not do the chasing. But after so long I wasn't prepared to play ball and for this reason he cut off communication yet again. And what surprised me was just how horrible I felt afterwards. The moment I had seen that he had cut me off, I just felt that I had been rejected all over again - even though I was the one who had no interest in playing the game. I feel like I am licking my wounds again. And it hurts.

I entitled this post, if you're conflicted, think twice. And my point is this - there is no stability in these kind of relationships and that is something to keep in mind. A person with mental health issues needs to take responsibility and seek help. If he or she does not, then it is likely that any such relationship with them will always be unstable. And even though you may feel you can cope with that, it is likely it will cause you pain as I feel now even just after a simple exchange. When he cut me off again I just felt invalidated. I shouldn't have felt that way, but I did. If I was dealing with someone who did not have control issues, the outcome would have been different. He  would have chatted and told me what he was feeling and we could have talked through that. But my ex wanted control. He wanted me to express missing him so he could tell me how to fix myself in order to be with him. And when he didn't get this, it was time to remove me again. Think twice. We partners are also guilty of splitting in the sense that whilst a person with BPD splits us bad, we tend to split them as good - remembering the good and finding excuses for the bad.

If you're  conflicted, please think twice. You may love your ex, but does he or she want something mutual, or just to control?

[roberto516]

Thanks for this. It was all about control. She finally had enough when I stood up for myself and wasn't going to play the game anymore of begging or apologizing for having valid emotions. Then we got back together and I told her we couldn't hang out one weekend. Again, I wasn't going to allow myself to be controlled. The funny thing is with the recycle I thought by having more of my own social life our relationship would grow. I failed to see that this is exactly what she didn't want. She wanted to control me. She will control the next person. And tjen she will blame them and be the victim yet again.

[hope2727]

there is no stability in these kind of relationships and that is something to keep in mind

when I stood up for myself and wasn't going to play the game anymore of begging or apologizing for having valid emotions

Thanks I really needed to be reminded of this today. Having one of those moments where I miss I'm I love him but I just found out he was with someone else while trying to recycle me. It literally kept waking me up all night. Sigh. Even after all these years it still hurts. Oh well they look happy form the outside. Perhaps they really are. More power to them I guess.

[Zemmma]

K.G:

Yes. If they split us, we split them. If they split us good and bad, then we in reaction are forced to split them into good/ bad.

There is the part of him that thinks I'm AMAZING and when he feels that way, he is amazing to me. He says the most amazing things, does things for me, shows me love and care. And I love him with all of my heart, and I want to be with him forever, and I would sacrifice all.

Then there is the part of him that thinks I am EVIL, and then he treats me horribly, hurts me without a care, lashes out, treats me with disinterest or disdain, discards me. When he feels that way, he is horrible to me. And I think he is mean person, and a lousy choice for a partner, and someone I will never marry or live with, and someone I should get over because surely my love can find a more deserving place to land.

[Gumiho]

Yes. If they split us, we split them. If they split us good and bad, then we in reaction are forced to split them into good/ bad.

Yet we love them. How paradox. ㅠㅠ

[Lalathegreat]

Thank you... .I'm not sure why, but this gave me some peace today. After feeling so angry yesterday over all of the ways that he had damaged me and changed me for the worst, I woke up this morning desperately missing him and wishing I could wake up next to him again. I felt very betrayed by MYSELF in having those emotions.

This reminder (that fundamentally these relationships will never be anything but unstable and about control is) helping me to put things back into perspective. Sigh... .

I'm sorry that he hurt you again.

[joeramabeme]

He wanted me to express missing him so he could tell me how to fix myself in order to be with him. And when he didn't get this, it was time to remove me again.

Moreover, even if you had "fixed yourself", this would morph into a new/different/deeper requests and he would still leave. 

After I had made substantial psychic changes, my ex left me.  I have always wondered why if she was so unhappy with the way I was and yet married me, why leave after I changed?

To me, there seems to be a certain facet of this disorder that is about "chasing" or "wanting".  Kind of a, better-to-want-than-to-have mindset that makes the whole thing crazy.  The "wanting" requests have a level of believe-ability about them.  They start off little by slow with adulation and relief after addressing the request, but then morph into something else that is larger and with lots of associated anger.

When I would start to believe that things were going the way she liked and that we would be in a happier and more contented place; she would raise another issue that was equally or more upsetting than the last.  It was a never ending carousel. 

Eventually, I realized it wasn't really about me and stood firm that she needed to look at herself, and this is the time she quit the marriage. 

Even now, this is my major disconnect from my own life experience and intuition.  Just as I was sure what I was doing would make her happy, and it did for brief times, something new would come into focus that was just as tumultuous as the "last time".  Being a people-pleaser, all of this was an easy pattern for me to fall into.  Yet, I never would have imagined that it was all about a pattern of producing chaos that seems to fulfill some internal dialogue that she couldn't escape from.

[Confusedpe]

wow this post is talking to me right now.

I am so conflicted about taking back my expwBPD, even though shes undiagnosed.

She has been chasing me like crazy since I left her, in fact she has been chasing me for a period of 1 year and 8 months now and yet I am still holding out and saying no. I have recycled with her 3 times and with every recycle it gets worse and worse. What's worse is that my anger propels me to hate her but it dies out, I think I may start a topic on that and I honestly start to forget all the nasty things she said and done.

After going out the crazy carousel a couple of times you become very sceptical. I agree 100000% that it is a chase game, as they say the thrill of the chase is better than the catch with these people.

[Zemmma]

joeramabeme: Oh my God yes.

Many times he begged and pleaded and insisted on something, and then when I finally agreed to doing it, and did it, he barely notice or mentioned it. Then it was something else. Something else I was doing wrong.

So much of our r/s was viewed through a negative lens.

I don't think he liked the drama and chaos, he just couldn't escape from it. From time to time he even had insight about it. About what a "crazy maniac" he was with me.

I swear he feels better when he is without me because these emotions were just too uncomfortable for him. We could have a wonderful loving evening and lots of fun and then go to sleep and his mind would start to race and go down a dark rabbit hole. He has needed to sleep with a loud radio on since he was a kid to prevent the dark thoughts in his head.

K.G. You hit the nail on the head with this post. It is soo tempting to jump in again. But you said it. I have thought this long before I found BPD forums... this r/s will always be unstable. Because he is unstable. And I did say I don't have any deal breakers when it comes to him. But that is not true. The one and only deal breaker is him leaving me: his repeated breakups. They hurt too much. They hurt like a death. EVERY TIME.  I would stay with him and work through anything. But I won't keep finding myself tossed out feeling again like it is the last time (which I always believed- the discards were all very believable). I mean if I just laid back calmly and got work done and spent time with the kids tapping my watch thinking, "No worries, he'll be back soon... " But no. Each break up was devastating and paralyzing. I don't ever want to do it again. I can deal with the instability inside the r/s, but not the coming and going. I remember telling him many times that we should be able to disagree or even argue from time to time without him considering leaving. Sometimes couples just fight and make up and that should be okay. This threat of leaving shouldn't always be hanging over my head.

Thanks for your thoughts...

[La Carotte]

I don't have any deal breakers when it comes to him. But that is not true. The one and only deal breaker is him leaving me: his repeated breakups. They hurt too much. They hurt like a death. EVERY TIME.  I would stay with him and work through anything. But I won't keep finding myself tossed out feeling again like it is the last time (which I always believed- the discards were all very believable). I mean if I just laid back calmly and got work done and spent time with the kids tapping my watch thinking, "No worries, he'll be back soon... " But no. Each break up was devastating and paralyzing. I don't ever want to do it again. I can deal with the instability inside the r/s, but not the coming and going

Zemmma, yes! That exactly! And so each time I decide that this is it. This is the time I get my life back on track. This is the real time. Because it feels like it has to be this time, both from me and her.  And I cannot stand to feel like this again. So I start the grieving/ detaching process again. I just get on with my life, sad and lonely, but I do it. And sometimes I even start to feel it might be ok at some distance in the future... .

Except it's clearly not a deal breaker for me. Because she comes around days, weeks, months later and I'm just so glad to see her, that I forget all the bad stuff, and convince myself that I've learned more, have better skills to interact how she needs,  and this time it'll be okay, she wouldn't have come back unless she loved me, right? And so... .I don't need to write the rest, you know how this goes.

I'd like to say this time it's different and this time I'm really going to do it forever, if she comes back, I won't go there. But two years' worth of evidence shows that this probably isn't true, no matter how strongly I believe it at this moment. My best hope is that this time she really won't come back because she really doesn't want me. And that thought makes me feel physically sick.

Sorry for hijacking the thread, I've been reading here for the longest time and just really felt I needed to express. Thank you.

[Zemmma]

La Carotte:

Yes of course. If he came around and remotely pledged anything I would take him back in a heartbeat.

But this break up thing has to stop. For real. How many times can one let a person do that to them? (she asks herself).

I only sound strong because he isn't the type to come back begging for me in that way. And he seems resolved we are done. He has always been the negative, doubtful, "our r/s is f'd" one.

In past breakups he just rolled out a little crumb and then I'd jump into pursuer mode. Then he would "reluctantly" let me take him. Like you said, I'd be so relieved and happy for his reappearance. And then he'd say I talked him into it. And after a few weeks or months of this he'd ask why I would think anything had changed? Just because we slept together, spent the weekend together, spent the last month texting day and night... whatever...

But this time I have made it hard for either one of us to slip back into it. I finally shut the door. I told him if he wants to leave I am not sticking around. I need to get over him (bah!). I don't want him checking up on me. I am not here for sex or friendship outside of a serious r/s. I told him that if he comes back, it means he wants to try again. Not me twisting his arm and forcing him to enjoy my amazing company, body and generosity. He would have to take responsibility for his decision. So far he has not returned. And if I break contact any time soon, I will look completely foolish...

[Aesir]

I agree. I admit that I'm conflicted.  The memories of being blamed for any and everything negative that happened to her and emotionally abused keeps me on NC trail. She is so self absorbed in the end she couldn't take responsibility for my leaving. She accused ME of cheating thus painting herself as a victim. Walking on eggshells is not fun.

[K.G.]

Thank you for your replies. I wish just for one day I could be in the mind of my ex to understand the world from his perspective. But I cannot. I can't experience the way he feels, I can only experience the way I feel. No one can tell someone what to do, to take someone back or not. It is a purely personal choice based on individual circumstances. My post was just a reminder that you will never be able to escape being controlled. I don't want to be in a relationship which is about somebody else's  needs. What about mine? No matter how imperfect I am, I don't deserve to be made to feel invalidated. No one does. My ex had no right to come back into my world, and then erase me again. I have a heart and I have feelings. And I was so angry with him after he did that. But it reminded me that unless I behave the way he thinks I should behave, I will always be punished. And I don't deserve to be punished just for being me and not being subject to his control. No-one does.

[Zemmma]

K.G.
Funny, that word punishment that you have used. I have seen it here a lot.

I hadn't really thought of it through this process, but in the end I made a video that I sent on What'sApp to tell him not to contact me again...

I had to use video because I learned over the course of the r/s that he is REALLY HORRIBLE at understanding anything I say on text. The visual and voice cues of a video may get through to him better. He is aware of this (although he is not to my knowledge aware he has a PD) so we sent videos in place of texts at times.

In my final video, I used that word "punishment." Said I didn't want him to go, but since he was leaving I wasn't going to stick around for more punishment. And that's what it is. I wouldn't dare use the words "emotional abuse" with him... he would freak out. But that's what it feels like. Despite sweet, sincere efforts to go in and appeal to the kinder, loving side, many of us are punished for staying involved. And my BPDex seems to come from a stance of "well you should know better by now." 

I do wonder if he got angry when I said hearing from him, having him check up on me, text me, and contact me is punishment. I imagine it pissed him off and gave him another reason to loathe me. Despite the fact the video expresses nothing but love and tears, and wishes him well, I wouldn't be surprised if the whole intention was lost on him. So has been my communication with him.

He heeded the "cease contact warning" so I guess I may never know.

[Gumiho]

... .But it reminded me that unless I behave the way he thinks I should behave, I will always be punished. ... .

Right? That "do as I want and I love you" mentality is so upsetting. And there seems to be no room for any of my view for (ex?)gf. Clearly not the deal we had in begin.
Yet I'd jump in again instantly. (equipped with some new weapons)

[hopealways]

Thanks for the post. I needed to be reminded of this also. It is easy for me to think of only the good times when you are many months NC.  But there were so many awful times. Today I read some old texts on an old iPhone I stored away and the disparity between the love I showed her and the aloofness and distance she always seemed to exhibit were horrible.  For example one day we were having an amazing day at the beach and the next she texts me that she is going to Vegas with her girlfriends because she needs space. What the heck.  The constant push/pull was horrific.

[Tessi]

I don't have any deal breakers when it comes to him. But that is not true. The one and only deal breaker is him leaving me: his repeated breakups. They hurt too much. They hurt like a death. EVERY TIME.  I would stay with him and work through anything. But I won't keep finding myself tossed out feeling again like it is the last time (which I always believed- the discards were all very believable). I mean if I just laid back calmly and got work done and spent time with the kids tapping my watch thinking, "No worries, he'll be back soon... " But no. Each break up was devastating and paralyzing. I don't ever want to do it again. I can deal with the instability inside the r/s, but not the coming and going

Zemmma, yes! That exactly! And so each time I decide that this is it. This is the time I get my life back on track. This is the real time. Because it feels like it has to be this time, both from me and her.  And I cannot stand to feel like this again. So I start the grieving/ detaching process again. I just get on with my life, sad and lonely, but I do it. And sometimes I even start to feel it might be ok at some distance in the future... .

Except it's clearly not a deal breaker for me. Because she comes around days, weeks, months later and I'm just so glad to see her, that I forget all the bad stuff, and convince myself that I've learned more, have better skills to interact how she needs,  and this time it'll be okay, she wouldn't have come back unless she loved me, right? And so... .I don't need to write the rest, you know how this goes.

I'd like to say this time it's different and this time I'm really going to do it forever, if she comes back, I won't go there. But two years' worth of evidence shows that this probably isn't true, no matter how strongly I believe it at this moment. My best hope is that this time she really won't come back because she really doesn't want me. And that thought makes me feel physically sick.

Sorry for hijacking the thread, I've been reading here for the longest time and just really felt I needed to express. Thank you.

[Tessi]

Today I switched categories from "Saving A Relationship... ." to ":)etaching... ." and this thread just made me cry (for the 4th time this morning.) It really resonated with me just how painful it is when my BPD bf breaks up with me, and how I don't think I will ever recover. However, I've gone back many times. Im embarrassed and ashamed. My friends and family don't understand, and to the outside world this should be a no brainer! I know why I keep going back, I just don't know how and when I will stop doing it. I get that I have control over my own actions. I'm just so caught up in the unstable relationship cycle. I appreciate everyone's words and am thankful for this site.

[Zemmma]

Tessi,
It is very hard. I loved this guy so much. And I hate to admit the r/s is wrong. Broken. It doesn't work. It has glorious, mind-blowing moments but does not work.

I am sorry that you have found yourself here.

One of the things I did during my last recycle: I decided that I was in chronically in love with him and would change everything about myself to accommodate his wild moods and differences. People always say that you have broken up because the r/s is broken. There must be a reason you keep breaking up. But I am a creative, determined problem solver and such an optimist, I decided instead, that there was a reason we kept getting back together. I tried to prove it to him during this limited recycle but he didn't let me in long enough for it to work.

I told myself all sorts of things, but even with an open heart and a willingness to accept and forgive, it blew up in my face again... not unlike all of the 14 (?) times before.

Sometimes its not you or I that needs to change. My ex doesn't even think he has a problem. He thinks he is delightfully more sensitive than the rest of the world and that is what makes him a great artist. Because he feels so sensitive he accuses me of being insensitive. In truth, he has no empathy. He expresses this in a cruel way. He lashes out. He doesn't recognize the pain he causes others. His sensitivity has not helped him be sensitive to others. What is it they say? Hurt people, hurt people.

I have been NC for a while and I am having some true lows, but also feeling more detached and better at times. I am reading the self help book called, "You are a Badass" by Jen Sincero (audio available on youtube). It's good! I really hope I can make a better life for myself and that the pain of losing this lovely, broken man will fade.

[ScottishKin]

The one and only deal breaker is him leaving me: his repeated breakups. They hurt too much. They hurt like a death. EVERY TIME.  I would stay with him and work through anything. But I won't keep finding myself tossed out feeling again like it is the last time (which I always believed- the discards were all very believable).

 I can deal with the instability inside the r/s, but not the coming and going. I remember telling him many times that we should be able to disagree or even argue from time to time without him considering leaving. Sometimes couples just fight and make up and that should be okay. This threat of leaving shouldn't always be hanging over my head.

Oh yes, 1000x yes.

I had no boundries. I let the verbal abuse and raging roll off me. If I asked for space and she would deny me, I'd ignore her. If she twisted the things I said and threw them back at me, I'd pick the stitches apart and re-iterate my argument afresh. If she ignored me for a week, I'd give her space to work herself through the mood and when I walked in the door and she finally acknowledged me, I'd forget about it.

But the break-ups really were my dealbreaker. I never once begged, pleaded or tried to talk her down. If she told me she was done, I started packing. I didn't know what BPD was then, I just took her at her word and I sure as hell didn't want to be with someone who didn't want me. Most of the time I didn't get further than the front door with my stuff, but on a few occasions I was out on my ear for a weekend or maybe a couple of weeks. Every time, it felt like I was decaying from the inside out.

Every time, I'd try to re-iterate how important it was to solve the problem from WITHIN the relationship and beg her not to jump straight to 'nuke it from orbit' at the slightest hurt.

Never worked. It never does with no treatment or diagnosis, does it?