BPD and violence

[Depression = 72% of members]

Hi all--I'm here because my brother's wife is BPD (undiagnosed so far but we are very sure--he dated a diagnosed pwBPD for years and the behavior is the same). He and I both read the "Eggshells" book and he said it was like reading about his own marriage. Although obviously I'm not married to this woman, I've seen her BPD traits up close and personal myself. She is incredibly easily offended, and even when I go out of my way to reach out to her, compliment her, etc. she always seems to find a way to be offended or hurt. She's an incredibly difficult person.

My question is, how often are pwBPD physically violent? My brother's BPD ex pulled a knife on him a couple of times and used to hit him. His current wife doesn't tend to lash out physically--so far--but their r/s is still relatively new and I worry that her behavior could escalate. Recently she did slap him quite hard during an argument, and once she kneed him in the balls. That gives me pause. Does anyone know if there are red flags that indicate a pwBPD might be dangerous?

[HelenaHandbasket]

Hi all--I'm here because my brother's wife is BPD (undiagnosed so far but we are very sure--he dated a diagnosed pwBPD for years and the behavior is the same). He and I both read the "Eggshells" book and he said it was like reading about his own marriage. Although obviously I'm not married to this woman, I've seen her BPD traits up close and personal myself. She is incredibly easily offended, and even when I go out of my way to reach out to her, compliment her, etc. she always seems to find a way to be offended or hurt. She's an incredibly difficult person.

My question is, how often are pwBPD physically violent? My brother's BPD ex pulled a knife on him a couple of times and used to hit him. His current wife doesn't tend to lash out physically--so far--but their r/s is still relatively new and I worry that her behavior could escalate. Recently she did slap him quite hard during an argument, and once she kneed him in the balls. That gives me pause. Does anyone know if there are red flags that indicate a pwBPD might be dangerous?

[Naughty Nibbler]

Recently she did slap him quite hard during an argument, and once she kneed him in the balls. That gives me pause. Does anyone know if there are red flags that indicate a pwBPD might be dangerous?

People with BPD are not all alike.  There are variations.  However, a good rule of thumb is that past behavior predicts future behavior.  Once someone has gotten physical in any way, you have to anticipate that to could happen again.  Best for your brother to be prepared and develop a Safety Plan.  He will feel more confident to think through what he will do next time to protect himself and do his best to keep things from escalating.  You might want to share the info. at this link with him.  Better to make a Safety Plan and not need it, than to need it and not have one.

SAFETY FIRST

[HappyChappy]

Hi HelenaHandbasket,

Someone with a personality disorder is not necessarily looking to be violent. They tend to use it as a last resort to get what they want. But as many BPD are very good at getting what they want via other means, there would be no reason for violence unless they also have something like sadistic personality disorder, but that would be separate to BPD.  Hence studies show those with poor communication skills and/or lower IQs, are more likely to resort to violence to get what they want, simply because they have fewer options and that applies to all.

So it bears repeating that past behaviour is a good indication of future behaviour. My brother has NPD co-morbid with a sadistic streak. But he has a long history of violence from an early age, but only with those much more vulnerable than him. Any chance he might get hurt and the violence stopped. So your best defence with someone with a PD is show no vulnerability, appear physically stronger. He would only smile or laugh if someone else was in pain, he didn’t get normal jokes. You wouldn’t know it to look at him.

The other rule here is that BPD tend to have fear, so are more likely to fear the consequences. Whereas a psychopath has no fear and also plans their attacks and hence potentially more dangerous. But even a psychopath would only use violence if nothing else worked. With a BPD the danger is more with impulsive behaviour, so I would echo NN advice, there is no harm in taking safety measures. But a BPD does a great deal of shroud waving, so you need to temper that and the fact the aggression can turn inwards (self harm), so I would look to her history. One final rule, BPD normally fear abandonment the most, so plan any abandonment well, don’t do it when your BPD is chopping vegetables (and that’s not a euphemism). I hope that helps.

[HelenaHandbasket]

Thank you for your responses. I agree that the best predictor of future behavior is relevant past behavior--that's partly why I'm worried (since she has gotten physical a couple of times). I'm also concerned about their child, who is 3. I don't think she's ever physically harmed him, but as he gets older and challenges her, who knows? I was really just trying to see whether anyone knew of any research studies on this (in terms of predicting the prevalence of violence in people with this disorder).

HappyChappy--I dated a psychopath when I was younger (he was my first boyfriend, lucky me!) and I'm more familiar with that disorder than I ever wanted to be. I'm so sorry your brother has that issue and I hope your family hasn't had to deal with too much fallout.  And as an animal lover, I hope with all my heart that he doesn't have access to any pets.  My psychopath ex once threw my new kitten against a wall (she was okay, thank God, but it was a horrendous thing to watch--that was actually the last straw in our relationship and I kicked him out that night).

[Naughty Nibbler]

HelenaHandbasket:

Check out the link below.  It will lead you to a means to perform an in-depth evaluation to determine the immediate probability of domestic violence.  There isn't a perfect way to predict when violence will occur.  Some people have posted that they can see signs of an impending episode.  Stressful life events commonly bring on emotional dysregulation. 


DOMESTIC VIOLENCE THREAT ASSESSMENT

[HelenaHandbasket]

Naughty Nibbler, thanks--that is great!

[Turkish]

A pwBPD can certainly fear consequences,  but given that emotional dysregulation (uncontrollable emotions) lie at the core of the disorder,  "all bets are off" so to speak, when someone gets triggered enough to commit violence.

A former, likely BPD, coworker I knew 20 years ago pulled a butcher knife on her husband during a fight.  He wisely retreated and called the cops. About two years later,  she assaulted her live in boyfriend. She ended up being 5150 (involuntary 72 hr psych hold) and stayed in a psych ward for about a week. 

In the past year,  my ex committed domestic violence against her husband in front of our kids. It was a miracle that our daughter's therapist didn't report her.  Still, it went on,  culminating on Christmas eve when the cops told both she and her H if they had to come back,  one or both of them would be arrested.

Both of these women knew the consequences, yet lost,  or chose to lose control. In the heat of the moment,  no one was safe.  Rationality flies out the window during severe dysregulation.

If your SIL has gotten away with committing crimes against your brother (and these were crimes), she'll likely continue of he doesn't alter his responses.  My ex's H didn't call the cops when she punched him.  Months later, she threw her cell phone at him and struck him.  He didn't call either.  I'm not saying that your brother should automatically call the cops (which might be necessary at some point,  but which carries its risks: please pass on this discussion about DV for men, linked in this article ) but that he should at the very least have a safety plan.

T

[HappyChappy]

... .pulled a butcher knife on her husband during a fight. 

Good point Turkish, never get confrontational in a butchers, or a chainsaw shop, or samurai sword shop... .

[HelenaHandbasket]

Thank you, Turkish--that is a sobering story.  Part of the reason my brother hasn't made too big a deal out of these incidents is that he's a big guy and his BPD wife is tiny in comparison. He's a big bear of a dude and she weighs about 100 pounds soaking wet, so I guess he convinces himself he's not in any danger. But the thing is, size doesn't matter if one party has a weapon--and I'm not just concerned about him, I'm concerned about the child. Like I said, she's never hit the child so far. But once he's old enough to start challenging and "triggering" her, I worry that she might snap. She has ZERO tolerance for being challenged in any way.

You've all given me a lot to think about, plus some good resources to peruse. I really appreciate it and I'll pass all this along to my bro.  Thanks so much.