She filled some kind of void

[Duped 1]

She filled some kind of void in me that I don't know that I knew existed. I wasn't even looking for a RS. She pursued me very aggressively and the love bombing was great. Everything after that was not. I have never seen anything like this or participated in anything like this before. The drama, conflict, insults, name calling, constant chaos over the most minor challenges, etc. is absolutely crazy. But yes I stayed because I thought she might return to the person I thought she was in the beginning even though all indications showed she wouldn't. I am almost 9 months out so I'm not sure if that makes me new.

There were red flags and I let them go because I  trusted way too much way too soon.

[Helplessly]

Is there a chance we are talking about the same girl?  Christ

[once removed]

I stayed because I thought she might return to the person I thought she was in the beginning even though all indications showed she wouldn't.

... .

There were red flags and I let them go because I  trusted way too much way too soon.

I think I looked at my own relationship this same way for a while. While I minimized the idealization in my own mind, the truth is that I was fueled by it. I never wanted that feeling of being appreciated and "understood" to go. I had an active role in the drama, conflict, insults, constant chaos and I was emotionally all over the map. I helped spin the cycle of conflict as much as she did. I couldn't let go... .  i was deeply invested, and conflicted. In many ways, I hung on even after it ended, and I went into deep emotional grieving and depression.

I found both of these pieces especially enlightening when it came to breaking down how many of us struggle:

https://bpdfamily.com/content/why-we-struggle-in-relationships
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=161524.msg1548981#msg1548981

[Skip]

Have you looked at attachment styles?

Attachment Styles

Adults have 4 attachment styles: secure, anxious–preoccupied, dismissive–avoidant, and fearful–avoidant. The secure attachment style in adults corresponds to the secure attachment style in children. The anxious–preoccupied attachment style in adults corresponds to the anxious–ambivalent attachment style in children. However, the dismissive–avoidant attachment style and the fearful–avoidant attachment style, which are distinct in adults, correspond to a single avoidant attachment style in children. The descriptions of adult attachment styles offered below are based on the relationship questionnaire devised by Bartholomew and Horowitz and on a review of studies by Pietromonaco and Barrett.

There are several attachment-based treatment approaches that can be used with adults. In addition, there is an approach to treating couples based on attachment theory.

Secure

Securely attached people tend to agree with the following statements: "It is relatively easy for me to become emotionally close to others. I am comfortable depending on others and having others depend on me. I don't worry about being alone or others not accepting me." This style of attachment usually results from a history of warm and responsive interactions with their attachments. Securely attached people tend to have positive views of themselves and their attachments. They also tend to have positive views of their relationships. Often they report greater satisfaction and adjustment in their relationships than people with other attachment styles. Securely attached people feel comfortable both with intimacy and with independence. Many seek to balance intimacy and independence in their relationship.

Secure attachment and adaptive functioning are promoted by a caregiver who is emotionally available and appropriately responsive to his or her child's attachment behavior, as well as capable of regulating both his or her positive and negative emotions.

Insecure
Anxious–preoccupied

People with anxious-preoccupied attachment type tend to agree with the following statements: "I want to be completely emotionally intimate with others, but I often find that others are reluctant to get as close as I would like", and "I am uncomfortable being without close relationships, but I sometimes worry that others don't value me as much as I value them." People with this style of attachment seek high levels of intimacy, approval, and responsiveness from their attachment figure. They sometimes value intimacy to such an extent that they become overly dependent on the attachment figure. Compared to securely attached people, people who are anxious or preoccupied with attachment tend to have less positive views about themselves. They may feel a sense of anxiousness that only recedes when in contact with the attachment figure. They often doubt their worth as a person and blame themselves for the attachment figure's lack of responsiveness. People who are anxious or preoccupied with attachment may exhibit high levels of emotional expressiveness, emotional dysregulation (ED), worry, and impulsiveness in their relationships.

Dismissive–avoidant

People with a dismissive style of avoidant attachment tend to agree with these statements: "I am comfortable without close emotional relationships", "It is important to me to feel independent and self-sufficient", and "I prefer not to depend on others or have others depend on me." People with this attachment style desire a high level of independence. The desire for independence often appears as an attempt to avoid attachment altogether. They view themselves as self-sufficient and invulnerable to feelings associated with being closely attached to others. They often deny needing close relationships. Some may even view close relationships as relatively unimportant. Not surprisingly, they seek less intimacy with attachments, whom they often view less positively than they view themselves. Investigators commonly note the defensive character of this attachment style. People with a dismissive–avoidant attachment style tend to suppress and hide their feelings, and they tend to deal with rejection by distancing themselves from the sources of rejection (e.g. their attachments).

Fearful–avoidant

People with losses or other trauma, such as sexual abuse in childhood and adolescence may often develop this type of attachment and tend to agree with the following statements: "I am somewhat uncomfortable getting close to others. I want emotionally close relationships, but I find it difficult to trust others completely, or to depend on them. I sometimes worry that I will be hurt if I allow myself to become too close to others."

People with this attachment style have mixed feelings about close relationships. On the one hand, they desire to have emotionally close relationships. On the other hand, they tend to feel uncomfortable with emotional closeness. These mixed feelings are combined with sometimes unconscious, negative views about themselves and their attachments. They commonly view themselves as unworthy of responsiveness from their attachments, and they don't trust the intentions of their attachments. Similar to the dismissive–avoidant attachment style, people with a fearful–avoidant attachment style seek less intimacy from attachments and frequently suppress and deny their feelings. Because of this, they are much less comfortable expressing affection.

[Duped 1]

Interesting articles Once Removed. I fought for a long time to maintain my independence and a healthy degree of individualism between us. She wanted every second of my time and attention and complained constantly that she wanted more. The more I gave, the more she complained and the more I lost myself. I have always been very independent (a complaint from some previous relationships) but I thought she was special (boy was I wrong!) so I gave way too much and she appreciated none of it. It was never enough.

[roberto516]

Interesting articles Once Removed. I fought for a long time to maintain my independence and a healthy degree of individualism between us. She wanted every second of my time and attention and complained constantly that she wanted more. The more I gave, the more she complained and the more I lost myself. I have always been very independent (a complaint from some previous relationships) but I thought she was special (boy was I wrong!) so I gave way too much and she appreciated none of it. It was never enough.

That's me right there. I swore I'd stay more independent. I even broke off a mini relationship with someone before her because the woman was being a little too "needy" and wanting all of my time. And somehow I lost my head with this ex. I really did think she loved me a lot. And you're right. I don't feel it was ever appreciated. If it was I think she would have tried a little harder. But she wasn't capable of that. So it's what I have to accept.

[vanx]

just wanted to chime in that my ex filled a void too. i think it is common for us nons. now we have to confront that pain and find other ways to meet those needs. personally, i struggle with this. it is hard to meet those needs outside of what i thought i had. the other option is sitting with the pain. that's where i'm at. how do you deal with the void that came up, duped?

[once removed]

i can recall my ex complaining about not spending enough time together too. id calculate the hours for her  .

it wasnt really the point for her, but i thought at the time it was a matter of who was right and who was wrong.

but I thought she was special

going back a ways, in my early relationships i presented with an insecure attachment style. very preoccupied (frankly obsessive) about how my partner felt about me. its hard to say if i chose partners with an avoidant attachment style or if i naturally pushed them away, or both.

i was hurt. i learned some good stuff along the way and made some real changes, but i began (i didnt realize it at the time) to look for partners who i suspect i detected were less likely to leave me, so id feel assured and be comfortable.

which is why the idealization was really so powerful; because i felt powerful. and its why it hurt so much when my ex did leave. perhaps you can relate?

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Interesting articles Once Removed. I fought for a long time to maintain my independence and a healthy degree of individualism between us.

Our degree of differentiation begins early in life often reflects the dynamics of the household we grew up in. As we become older and independent of our childhood home, we can continue that differentiation or evolve it in one direction or another.

Differentiation is how much we depend on others for our own self image. A well differentiated peron has little dependence. A poorly differentiated person has great dependence. If we grew up in a poorly differentiated environment, we tend to adapt that as our starting point as adults.

If your girlfriends opinion of you sucked you in and you lost yourself, it generally suggest that you were not well differentiated. People who are not well differentiated tend to get caught up in relationships dramas and can't let go (of fights, of insults, of bad events, of the relationship, of the hurt).

If her idealization had a great affect on you (or any of us), that is a sign of limited differentiation. That's why idealization felt so good. We were "valued". We had "worth". Of course, the flip side would be that her devaluation would be devastating - especially following the idealization.

I ... .gave way too much and she appreciated none of it. It was never enough.

Not to even suggest fault finding (there is no point in that)... .
   expecting that to give of yourself would earn the love and respect of another is also in the realm compromised differentiation.

I'm not diagnosing you. I am suggesting that the mentality that partially lead you deep into this relationship, may still linger. It sounds like it is lingering in some of the statements you are making.

It's important to know that you can love fully and passionately and even love a demanding person without giving yourself away - losing yourself.  It's also worth noting that if you have strong differentiation, that at some point you will tire of a person who is co-seeking a codependent relationship, because they are operating at an emotional level below you - a visceral disconnect will develop - you won't feel like they are a healthy or capable person to the point that they are no longer attractive.

[Duped 1]

It's important to know that you can love fully and passionately and even love a demanding person without giving yourself away - losing yourself.  It's also worth noting that if you have strong differentiation, that at some point you will tire of a person who is co-seeking a codependent relationship, because they are operating at an emotional level below you - a visceral disconnect will develop - you won't feel like they are a healthy or capable person to the point that they are no longer attractive.

This is really interesting.She was pushing to move in and for marriage (to the point of bullying me about it regularly) and I wouldn't take that step as I told her we weren't healthy enough for that and she needed to be respectful even when angry. She would make comments that she was on probation and I would say we need to enjoy the journey and be good to one another. So I was smart enough not to take that step but not strong enough to let her go as I was so hopeful for our future. Over time it just got worse and worse and I started giving in in hopes that she would see how much I was committed and work more on being respectful and not raging at me out of the blue (the ambushes). The devaluation following this was like nothing I had ever experienced. She constantly complained (also with insults and condescending comments). I remember saying that she needed to stop complaining about absolutely everything and she said: "If I stop complaining we are in trouble". That told me that this was her norm and certainly not healthy.

I definitely do not respect her and know she is unhealthy and extremely needy and abusive yet I still miss her despite the horrible treatment and I'm trying to understand why.I certainly did lose myself and starting fighting dirty just like her after a while and I am not proud of this.