I've been split black, can it ever be reversed?

[Feeling Better]

I have been split black by my 35 yr old son, who now lives abroad so no contact unless I email him, (despite being asked by him to leave him alone), to ask how he is. My emails are very infrequent as I do not wish to upset him but I do like to maintain some sort of contact as I know that if I didn't all contact would be non existent. Standard reply is I'm ok, nothing more but at least I am grateful to get a reply. Just wondering if anyone else here has been split black for a long time and managed to reverse it or improve the relationship as I do not know what to do. I have come to terms with his problems and am learning to accept what is but do I try to rebuild our relationship all be it a long distance one and would it even be possible, or do I accept that he wants no contact ever again and just get on with my own life? Still a bit confused. Any thoughts on this would be gratefully received x

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Lollypop]

Hi feeling better  

I can feel your hurt and also your need to have contact with your son. I understand and have been there myself.

Your son finds his life easier without contact for whatever reason. He's replying so you know he's ok. There's contact but it's very delicate and you're wise to see that it can easily be stopped by him. Right now he's protecting himself in the only way he can.

You clearly love your son and want to have a relationship so very badly.

I've been there myself. I know how that no contact can drive you nuts, so extremely painful. This was my turning point. I stopped the words and moved into action. I'm glad you've posted and I hope it's yours too.

There's no reversal, there's only forwards. You're left in a situation that the only thing that can happen is for you to change yourself.

I encourage you to read up on BPD and improve your communication skills. Get yourself out and about and start living your own life. My advice is to do both with a passion. When you have started to feel the benefits of these you can then show your son that the situation has altered. Read here, Post here as you'll gain a better insight to your situation, ask questions and grow.

At some point in the future you can write an email or write a letter using your new skills. This is to let your son know how you are, that you've sought help for yourself, how you've been working on yourself, that you love him and that you hope he's well and happy too. Then it's patience, a wait to see what happens.

There's always hope. I'm being honest, it hasn't been easy to learn these new skills but I don't regret it for one moment. They've helped me make new friends and improve other relationships. I'm happier with my "new" life. I've shown my DS how he can change his approach too.

Your son may decide to not progress a relationship with you but by then you'll be in a happier place. If at some point in the future you get more in depth contact, you'll have more effective skills to develop your relationship.

What's your honest thoughts?

Hugs

LP

[incadove]

Hi Feeling Better

Yes, I've had that where there are times for some weeks at a time that all I can get is 'I'm fine' or 'I'm ok' and it hurt a lot over that time, but probably it was less extreme.

I know that my dd's have huge trust issues with me, they trust my husband more but also have more deep emotional conflicts with him sometimes.   Basically I think with them they don't trust that I care for and love them enough, so they distance to avoid being hurt, and also because I've gotten upset with them in the past, and maybe the age and just being overwhelmed.  One thing we have gotten established though is to be sort of friendly and polite with each other, even at the times we are not close, and have talked about that being a principle. 

Mine really like to receive gifts, so sending something they will use helps them feel that I really do care a bit, that helps.  I try not to overdo it but just every once in a while or when they do something like start a school semester. 

I do think getting on with your life in the sense that making other deep emotional connections and finding meaning and happiness in other ways is very important.  I find that if I have happiness from other sources, then I can offer more without needing a response.  The not getting a response from someone I want to be connected with is so painful, so reducing the want but offering caring in a non-demanding way has so far been best for me, and seems to maybe be slowly improving things.  Basically if I do not set up an expectation of response, then I don't have a negative feeling about not getting one, and I'm able to offer caring on my own terms just because I want to, if that makes sense.

I agree reading is really helpful, and I'm not very skillful really even though I've read a lot of DBT and watched most of the videos here.  They do help though I watched the validation one twice!   Feeling like I'm learning and growing also helps me move above the pain, like to consider it on a meta level really helps a lot.

Lollypop put it very well, I think, patience and learning are keys.  I'd like to hear your thoughts also.

[Feeling Better]

Hi Lollypop

Thank you for your insight and support, I totally agree with what you are saying.

You are right, my son does find life easier away from me, I realise that to him, avoidance is for his own protection and self preservation. He blames me, he doesn't trust me and he doesn' believe that I love him and it breaks my heart. I know he is too scared to let me back in, I have seen it in his face, and in his eyes I have seen deep deep sorrow. I used to write down my feelings and perceptions, and one thing I wrote was that he had built a massive fortress around himself to protect him and to keep me out, but in so doing he had also made himself a prisoner. He did let me in once though, I'd written him a letter, he read it in front of me, and something in that letter connected with him and he 'came back' to me very briefly. He smiled at me, hugged me and he told me he loved me and then the next time I saw him it was as if it had never happened. I know that when he is around me he looks like a lost soul and it breaks my heart in two.

I completely take on board what you are saying about no reversals, only moving forward.
I have been so scared of saying the wrong thing in the past, but through our joint relationship counselling which we undertook a while ago, I have come to realise certain things and this site has helped me even more. I try not to take things personally, it is hard and it is painful and I do realise that I am the one who needs to change if I am to get anywhere with him.

Thank you for your encouragement to get on with my life, learning to take care of myself and to start living my life again was hard; how could I have the right to do that knowing full well what my son was going through, how could I enjoy life ever again? But I can, your words and the words of others here have given me the strength to carry on, to get out there, to stop feeling sorry for myself and to enjoy my life. And I will do it with a passion Lollypop just as you say.

I thank you for your honesty in what you have written, you have given me hope and I am starting to feel more positive. I was ready to give up and let my son go, thinking he could have a better life without me, but now I see that there could be a another way, and certainly one that is worth trying x

[Lollypop]

 

Gently forwards we go.

I've got a relaxed weekend planned, it's raining (again) so I'm off to my shed to do some art.

How do you like to spend your spare time?

LP

[Feeling Better]

Hi Incadove

Thank you for your reply to my post, you come across as a very open and caring person and it was interesting to read your take on this.

Yes, I agree with you, the loss of trust is a huge issue and that trust is so difficult to reinstate. The distancing is to protect themselves, hard as it is for us to accept that. I am glad for you that there is a connection between your dd's and your husband, does your husband help and support you to improve your relationship with your dd's?

It's lovely that yours accept gifts, which must give you hope. My son has told me he wants no gifts or money for birthdays or Christmas from me and so I respect his wishes but I do wonder at times whether me not giving him anything reinforces his belief that I don't love him.

I am learning to give care in an undemanding way, I have had to for my own peace of mind, it is far better as you say to not expect a response rather than beat yourself up because you haven't received one.

I do find as I get older retaining information I have read is difficult but like you I will persevere and keep on learning and hopefully the future for both of us will be much brighter.

I wish you all the luck in the world x

[Feeling Better]

Wow Lollypop

What you just wrote brought tears to my eyes, to think that someone cares to ask what I enjoy doing.

I like dancing and tai chi and very soon I shall be taking my dog for a walk as we love walking, although she's not a fan of the rain.

I am sure your art is very relaxing and good for the soul. Do you paint or enjoy some other form of art? x

[Feeling Better]

Hi again Incadove

As an afterthought I was just wondering... .

How did you manage to get yourself in a place whereby you could set up a non expectation of response? I would love to be able to do that because I think I would still struggle x

[Lollypop]

Hi feeling better

I'm oil painting for only the second time and it's driving me bonkers.    I'm doing a fine art degree and start my second year in sept. Every day I doubt myself on my course (those negative thoughts play in my head) but I won't give up because I love it so much. I've made new friends and a focus away from my family.

I've got two dogs so walking is on top of the list.

Tai chi is a very good idea!  :)o you go to classes?

LP

[Rockieplace]

Very interesting topic for me.  I was painted black for years but now I am on a pedestal and to be honest - I don't know which is worse!  I get nose bleeds this high up - ha ha. Things can and do change - sometimes in the blink of an eye. 
 
Lollypop is absolutely right though.  You need to look after yourself.  Painting is so therapeutic - or so I've heard.  I've bought all the kit and have yet to start!  I will though when things get a little quieter.  It's something I've always wanted to do.  I do yoga, which I find very helpful for stress management.  I also play the piano which is a bit like painting I guess, as you have to let you mind run loose.

Good luck.  You love your son.  We know you love your son.  You know you love your son.  He is ill and maybe can't accept that he is lovable right now.  He may change in the future though.   Get the tissues ready for the nose bleeds if he does ! 

[Feeling Better]

Hi Lollypop

Yes, I do go to tai chi class, I do it along with Qigong, which is a set of exercises for promoting health and wellbeing. They both concentrate my mind and I find them really beneficial. I would recommend to anyone.

You must feel really proud of yourself undertaking your art degree, it is a big commitment and I take my hat off to you. It is really inspiring to hear that you are not afraid to take on a new challenge despite your recurring negative thoughts, I wish you huge success. Is painting something that you have always had a yearning to do?

Two dogs! I would like to add another dog to my 'pack' once I think that the time is right, they bring so much pleasure into our lives, I don't think I could ever be without one, my home would not be the same. Which breed are your dogs? Mine is a Black and Tan Doberman x

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Feeling Better]

Hi Rockieplace

Good to read what you have to say and reassuring to find out that after years of being black you finally got to be the 'flavour of the month' again! There's hope for me yet!

I have just one question though:
How did you manage to 'un-black' yourself, did it just happen with the passage of time or did you do or say something specific that resulted in a change of heart? I would be really interested in hearing what you think brought about the turnaround x

[Rockieplace]

Hi Feeling Better. 

I'm not sure I know the answer to this question.  It may have had something to do with the way I learnt to respond.  I read the tools on here avidly and then tried to apply them as often as possible.  I don't react to my d now in the same way I did and it seems to have taken the sting out of our relationship.  She could be very abusive and terribly nasty.  I was rather afraid of her.  Now I feel I have taken back control. 

Lollypop is right - the only thing you can control is yourself and your responses.  It is hard to do, especially at first, but when you see the results and see it working it becomes easier and easier.  I validate as much as possible and other than that confine my responses to 'Oh poor you', Oh dear that must feel awful etc etc.  I always end with I love you and if it's in text lots of kisses too.  If I forget she goes into a panic.

As I say, this may have been the turning point.  The sceptical side of me also says that by this time I'm the only she had left so she had to be nice to me, but even as I was typing that, I know really that that isn't the whole story.

Hope this helps and good luck.

[incadove]

Hi again Incadove

As an afterthought I was just wondering... .

How did you manage to get yourself in a place whereby you could set up a non expectation of response? I would love to be able to do that because I think I would still struggle x

Hi Feeling Better - sorry I hadn't logged on in a while!

The 'metta' lovingkindness meditiation helps me a lot - I found it when I was looking for ways to deal with my own 'rage' reaction!  There is a book by that title by Sharon Salzberg I just read, its pretty good, there are prob others and also Internet resources.  Buddhist meditation is all about letting go while being present, it really helps me.  I just do it myself in my own way, but guided by the ideas.

[incadove]

Hi again Incadove

As an afterthought I was just wondering... .

How did you manage to get yourself in a place whereby you could set up a non expectation of response? I would love to be able to do that because I think I would still struggle x

also I changed how I messaged or texted, so that a response wasn't expected.  Like instead of asking questions I just gave information and ended on a positive or loving note.  So I didn't have to have the pain of wondering if I woudl get a response.  But now I'm not having any problem with that so I don't know if I could really handle it.  I think my kids aren't full blown BPD they just have a lot of the feelings because of early abandonment (long story) so its more the patterns than the full thing.  But I still had to learn a lot to be able to deal with it, hope that helps.  Also talk to close friends!

[Feeling Better]

Hi Incadove

Thank you, that is most helpful, I see now that if I don't ask a question I don't necessarily need a reply. Part of my problem is that I do ask questions because I desperately want a reply, and I think that I would probably still be wanting a reply whether I asked a question or not. I am going to have to do a lot of work on myself to get into a stable state of mind because I currently get worked up and really anxious thinking of too many 'what if's', and I think of all the worst scenarios that are out there until I get a reply!

The metta meditation you mentioned is worth taking a look at, thank you.

Glad to hear that things are currently going better with you and yours right now, long may it continue x

[incadove]

I am going to have to do a lot of work on myself to get into a stable state of mind because I currently get worked up and really anxious thinking of too many 'what if's', and I think of all the worst scenarios that are out there until I get a reply!

Yes, this part I do too, and I tell them that!  I tell my dd that I worry if I don't hear back from her at all, and she doesn't need to answer or read in detail but please just to let me know she's ok.  Then she almost always does, but sometimes really briefly.

So yeah, being honest (but first making sure I'm coming from a parental and caretaking role) and open that I worry and that is my problem but please let me know you're ok, usually works, I think because of the ability of dd's to be ubervalidating they are sensitive about being asked for validation, so if I'm not asking for validation for myself but just to know that she's doing ok, that goes over better.

On another level I do want respectful and thoughtful replies and behavior, one dd is almost always very good at doing that herself (as long as she hasn't decided I'm being controlling or selfish), the other wasn't but in that case because of how our relationship was I was able to insist on it.  But putting the 'safety first' and putting aside everything else, usually works for me to at least keep that level of connection.

I remember how painful it was and how all consuming.  I'm grateful not to be there now, and its funny I can't even really feel at this moment what it was like (I think I'm blocking it out) but I know it was so intensely painful basically to feel mistreated by someone you are so close to.  The detachment and understanding helps a lot because then I think I don't feel mistreated, just oh, they need to do that now, how should I respond.  At least for now!  Good luck and take care

[incadove]

Oh - if I want to remember the pain I can - I used to record myself singing it out, so I knew I'd be listened to because I'd go back and listen to it later.  It helped a lot actually, I almost forgot that - to have a sort of personal creative outlet, singing (to myself) is mine.  It probably sounds weird but it really helped!

[Feeling Better]

Hi Incadove

Sorry, I've not yet worked out how to insert a quote, but what you wrote there  is so funny and it made me smile. I would imagine a good way of coping and very therapeutic.
When my son was around I used to always write things down, my feelings, things he said, things he did, everything. I also used to write him letters, some I gave him and some I didn't but I have still got everything I wrote. Periodically I think I ought to get rid of them but then I decide to hold onto them for now because they are so personal and a reminder, if ever I choose to read through them again, which I guess would be pretty similar to you listening to your recordings. I think I'm still holding onto them because I'm kind of thinking that if I get rid of them then I am severing the final link to my son, which I'm definitely not ready to do.

I think in the end we all find our own ways of coping and work out what suits us best but it's great to hear the thoughts and tips from others in similar situations x

[incadove]

Thank you Feeling Better!  humor and self caring helps!  (though at the time i might not have felt any humor :-)  And that reminded me of a suggestion I had for you.  You said your son said not to send him any gifts for his birthday or Christmas, and you respect that, which is cool.  Did he say anything about the other 363 days of the year?

I think it might be a nice funny thing to do to send him a short note on a different day, explaining that you fully respect his wishes but since he didn't forbid you sending a present on say, groundhog day, you sent a short note and a small thing he might like, without asking for or expecting any response. In fact, it might be funny and reduce your pain if you specifically ask him not to reply to that particular note, so that you won't have to have the hurt of hoping for a response.  And then you can just enjoy remembering what you sent, and imagining that he might have opened it and felt good about it.  Anyway its unlikely to hurt, no?

[Feeling Better]

Hi Incadove

Thank you for caring and for taking the time to offer up your suggestion for me, it is gratefully received.

I truly wish I could use your suggestion as it seems such a nice and unexpected thing to do but I know it would be futile in my case.

First off, I have no idea of my son's address, I've never asked for it as I assumed email would be the way to stay in touch with him. I know which country he is living in but that is as far as it goes.

When I knew that he was going away I gave him a gift to take with him, I said to him that when he looked at it, it would remind him of me and of how much I love him. His response was to say that it was a very nice gift but if he looked at it, it would remind him of what a horrible person I am. And this was at the end of a meal that I'd just treated him to!

When I think about it now, it was weird how he had no qualms about taking, sometimes without even asking whether it was ok, but he didn't like being given! I'd asked him one Christmas what he would like as a gift, but after I bought it for him he never ever opened it. Yet he would just waltz into my home as if he owned the place and take whatever he needed. I see now since being on this site that I should have given him boundaries but at the time I was too scared to do anything in case I upset him and he decided to leave and never return. Well, it looks like it's happened anyway. I would dearly love to be able to send him little gifts or notes but after being asked by him to leave him alone, I tread very carefully.

Let me thank you once again Incadove for your kind message, it means a lot.

I hope things are still going well with your dd's x

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[incadove]

Oh - yeah, that won't work then.

The other thing that helps me feel better, is volunteering with other children who are in tough situations and need and appreciate the help.  I feel like I learn a little bit too, both from the kids and from the organization I work with, and it helps me stay together for when I have contact that is a little difficult.

Hoping for the best 

[Mamadukes]

Hi Dear People,

Wow, this is one of my favorite threads so far. Thanks everybody. LOL, LP -- oil painting driving you bonkers; how wonderful that you've started a degree program! Lots of dogs among us -- long daily dog walk is an essential sanity/self-care regimen for me too -- great way to be in the moment (she's the best), outside, relaxing. DS27 also loves the dog dearly and draws a lot from her. Frequent bike rides are also super relaxing for me (I like a destination, and lately I'm riding 1/2 hr to an Aldi for a few things -- perfect). Adding yoga lately too, good good.

Split black, or painted black is a new term for me. Ugh. Just when you think this thing can't get tougher. How very heartbreaking.

I am here this morning because DS is sleeping it off in a gutter somewhere. Wee hour phone calls were, basically, "I hate you don't leave me." This is very hard, but... .

After recent 6-wk partial hospital program, incredibly successful, he is now getting underway with a great new treatment program, 1/wk individual and 1/wk DBT, plus his rehab groups and his counselor there. During the PHP I was on a honeymoon, quickly crushed. So maybe now I finally finally get it that we are in this for the long run, and the roller coaster will continue indefinitely. Okay, a new level of acceptance.

Moving forward. It continues to become clearer and clearer to me that all we can really do as parents is learn everything we can, practice, take care of ourselves. Stay loving, compassionate, validating. Keep learning. Get support. For me, the books and resources are essential. I've also noticed lately that if I am feeling anxious it can be helpful to do an Emotions / Logic exercise: a column for what I'm feeling or what's troubling me, and a column for a logical response to that. I'm finding that this can diffuse that gray discomfort and anxiety. Big one: worried/anticipating son's inevitable next episode. Response: take it when it comes, be in the moment. Maybe balancing emotions & logic will eventually = wise mind

Thanks everybody. Take care.
Tired but okay,
MamaD