Attacking with Food

[FlawedDesign]

Hi,

I have a teen with traits of BPD/NPD due to a shared psychosis with his BPD/NPD father.  Parental Alienation/Pathogenic Parenting triggered my son's symptoms. I know that BPDs can be physically aggressive, but has anyone else experienced being attacked with foodstuffs?  My son will come up behind me and smear me with a pound of butter, for instance  -- face, hair, and clothing (usually when I am ready to go out the door to work).  He has dumped tubs of yogourt over me, and doused me with vinegar.  Or he throws pieces of food at me.  He also interferes with my food  -- dumps fresh pots of coffee down the drain, mixes kitchen garbage with any plate of food I put on the table for myself (as I turn to get something else) so that it becomes inedible, and will throw cups of hot coffee or pitchers of ice water in my face (loves to do this while I  am quietly reading, as it causes more damage).  He also loves shredding any paperwork of mine he can get his hands on  -- the more important the better -- and he grabs my books to destroy them by ripping chunks of pages out or holding them under a tap.  Grabs my expensive eyeglasses, too, and threatens to destroy them. Getting very hard to live this way.  Anyone else with these things going on?  His father tells him he is doing fine, as long as he bothers me.  Awaiting divorce.   

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[wendydarling]

Hi FlawedDesign

Welcome to bpdfamily I'm glad you found us and sorry what brings you here. I have no experience of this and wonder how you are managing to cope, how long has this been happening, do you feel safe? Is your teen getting any help and are you receiving support as you say it's getting very hard to live this way.

WDx

[incadove]

Hi FlawedDesign

I don't have much experience, only my own children, but I think this is beyond just the BPD.  If you are being physically assaulted you have the right to call the police and have it stopped.  No one should feel they have to be unsafe even if it is your own child who is doing it.    Its ok to set whatever boundaries you want to set, including not being in a place you feel unsafe. 

To answer your question, no, I don't have any experience like that.  Each of my dd's once grabbed my wrist and one of them once threw something at me.  To me that was a huge deal and had major consequences.    Mine are just emotional and so I never had to handle anything like that.  One of my dd's said once that if she didn't control herself, she would have broken a lot of things, but she made the choice to be in control. 

I hope you are getting support, that sounds so difficult, hope you are able to manage the situation for yourself.

[FlawedDesign]

Thank you both for your replies.  I have tried to get my son housed elsewhere, but when I do, my husband objects and tells him to stay where he is.  My husband has instigated severe Parental Alienation/Pathogenic Parenting in our family (see work of Dr. Craig Childress), which means that my children were essentially brainwashed by their father  -- as in a cult --  to hate their mother.  He gave them false memories of fabricated "abuse."  They are now part of a shared psychosis with their father, in which all of them exhibit the cruel and harmful traits of BPD/NPD, but only against me, their mother.  NPD especially is exceedingly vicious.     

I have tried the police several times, but I do not any more.  They are not my friends.  The last time I called for heavy physical abuse by a husband and two late-teen sons, I was told, "We have three people here saying that YOU are the abuser, lady, and only ONE saying the opposite.  I go  by numbers... .any more lip out of you, and I'll have you in cuffs and down to the station in ten seconds.  Got that?"  Yes, officer... .

Needless to say, I would have to be almost dead before I would ever call police again.  They also tell me that I cannot have my sons removed from a home owned by both parents unless both of them agree to this.  My husband encourages our sons to abuse me, knowing that I can do very little. They toy with me... .they consider mocking and abusing their mother to be wonderful entertainment.  I know it is their mental illness due to the BPD/NPD they are tied-up with because of their father, so I REALLY try to understand.  I love my kids.  I simply need to understand that right now, it is as if they are caught in a dangerous cult, hating anyone who is not in the cult.  See the work of Alexandra Stein for more on this. 

But, my God, is it difficult to live this way!  They also have their cellphones trained on me whenever I am not behind locked doors, hoping to fabricate supposed "evidence."  Evidence of what?  Oh, of child abuse... .you know, against young men in university who are bigger than their mother and have had all of their needs supported at home since they were born.  They haven't paid a penny.  They have been loved hugely and treated like precious cargo.  But they say they are out to "get me" on child abuse charges, and they will have evidence on their cellphones, even if they have to ... .ahem... .edit it to look like evidence.  They also add their own storylines when they show other people this footage.  Of course, most people, if they are shown images by someone who seems normal, and told a story to go with these images, will believe them.  Where does that leave me?

I am not a martyr.  I must stay in the family home for legal and financial reasons until the divorce.  Also, because I might just get through, even a tiny bit, to my kids.  Parental Alienation/Pathogenic Parenting is hugely damaging, not just to the targeted parent (goes without saying), but to the kids who have been forced by one parent to hate and abuse the other.  Kind of a Stockholm Syndrome, in which they are forced to collude with the criminal who has taken them hostage.  Parental Alienation/Pathogenic Parenting means your kids may be gone from your life forever.  Many of them never re-unite with the targeted parent.  I recommend Pamela Richardson's "A Kidnapped Mind."   Or "Tears in the Rain."  Kids targeted for Parental Alienation/Pathogenic Parenting are at high risk of emotional damage and even higher risk of suicide than the usual BPD rates.  This is why I am trying so very hard to ride out the abuse.  Mother love. 

One day I arrived home from work to find that they had cleared almost all of my personal belongings out of our house, and put them in a storage unit somewhere.  The unit is barred to me unless I go through criminal court proceedings and the judge issues a search warrant.  That can take over a year, and will cost as much in legal fees as it will to replace all those items.  So why bother?  I have a couple of outfits left for work that they didn't get at, and my packed emergency suitcase.  I am educated, middle class, always believed in the Golden Rule.  But sometimes those values don't get you very far when something like this is going on.   

 

[Yepanotherone]

FD I am quite frankly astounded and outaged that you are being treated like this and I have to ask , why oh why do you stay in such a horrible abusive environment ? I can tolerate a lot and consider myself to be a strong person all in all , but oh my god , you take the prize for strength, courage and perseverance !
I think I would have packed my suitcase long time ago and left the three of them to it quite frankly , though easier said than done I know 

[incadove]

Wow.  I know you are making rational decisions for yourself, but if the police have responded this way you may want to have a backup plan ready.  In most places I have lived there are battered women shelters with hotlines that will provide a safe escape quickly if necessary, and will not behave as you described the police doing.

I hope you stay safe.

Even if you leave I believe you could still send messages of love and support to your sons from a safe distance, and offer to meet with them individually with backup of caring friends who would not allow you to be treated this way.  Establishing a boundary may be another way of getting through to them, perhaps. 

Good luck in this incredibly difficult situation.

[FlawedDesign]

Thank you all so much for your replies.  I have four teen/young adult children who are behaving this way, actually, though I sensed that no one would believe me if I had posted that.  Would seem to be an exaggeration, so I mentioned just two.  Are you aware of Parental Alienation/Pathogenic Parenting  (PA/PP)?  The work of Dr. Craig Childress is the best on the subject, I feel.  Also, Linda Gottlieb and Dr. Richard Warshak.  Alienation of other people is one of the common traits of BPD and NPD (from Silent Treatment, onwards). 

In the case of one parent/spouse targeting the other parent, it becomes a very specific set of traits in the targeting parent (who has BPD and/or NPD) AND subsequently in the children.  Dr. Richard Gardner first described this pattern, or set of traits, in the 80s.  He was castigated for self-publishing, and for calling it a syndrome.  I think he should have been congratulated for noting the PA/PP patterns, but Dr. Craig Childress has far more recently described this as an Attachment Disorder (see work of John Bowlby) which actually becomes a shared psychosis (this is not as rare as once thought). That tallies with my own conclusions.  I did a grad degree in Human Development, and I suspected an Attachment Disorder early on.  Only... .what to do about it? 

My husband appears to be intermittently psychotic, along with NPD/BPD.  My children feature traits of NPD/BPD, but never did prior to my husband's divorce announcement last year.  That was the trigger.  So if I could have my children separated from their father for at least several months, the theory is that they would return to normal, without his enmeshment with them.  Make sense?

I am very much afraid... .yes, indeed.  I live with five people who would be delighted to see me hurt, badly.  They tell me they would "piss on my grave."   Try the usual resources?  Been there, done that.  Most people know enough to call 9-1-1 in an emergency, but that is the standard advice I continue to receive.  Pretty basic stuff, and it has begun to annoy me.  How stupid do they think I must be?   I can figure out a shared psychosis, but I wouldn't know enough to call police or go to a woman's shelter... .?   I politely thank people, but wonder why they say such things.  These are the myths we are taught to believe  --  call the police, go to a shelter, and your troubles will be over.  Not so.  24 - 48 hours in a shelter just leaves the problems stewing at home until you return.  Nothing has changed.  The police?  In my experience, police involvement has made the situation SO very much worse.  My husband uses them in his manipulations against me, and they play right along.   

I stay because these are MY children.  Four of them.  I love them intensely still.  I lost my grown siblings due to having been the parentified child in a very dysfunctional family (NPD/BPD... .I unwittingly married another one in a Re-enactment Compulsion).  They have shunned me as the Family Scapegoat for many years.  I cannot lose another family.  This is Intergenerational Scapegoating.  You're a family scapegoat with NPD/BPD types, and you tend to find yourself being the family scapegoat again in life, later.  I consider human beings a flawed design when the self-sacrificing people end up as the victims of the folks they self-sacrificed for.  The Golden Rule works only sometimes.  If you very steadfastly follow it, it makes you a chump, I have learned.

PA/PP does dreadful emotional damage to the kids whose alienating parent inflicts them with it.  They lose not only the targeted parent from their life, but they lose part of themselves.  Massive emotional harm.  These kids become very, very high suicide risks.  The story by Pamela Richardson ("A Kidnapped Mind" tells the fairly recent story of her parentally alienated son, damaged this way by his father, who was a suicide at 16, despite her every effort to help him.  PA/PP is a vicious, devastating condition.  It destroys families, and then it destroys those individual kids.  I am still trying in every way possible to get through to mine, though they treat me like a pile of dog dirt.  I know what the stakes are for all of us.  So I try to put up with their cruelty as far as possible. 

My kids are extremely unlikely to simply come around after I leave.  This is one of the myths.  PA/PP kids generally remain alienated and hateful of the one targeted parent for 20+ years, and more often for life.  So you have, in effect, lost them.  They will refuse all contact, and all loving messages.  They will continue saying they hope this parent dies soon and painfully (yep... .I get that daily).  People with no experience of PA/PP do not realize how monstrous this condition is... .they keep trying to use common sense to respond to a condition that is controlled by a psychotic mind of the alienating parent with NPD/BPD.  PA/PP is a condition not operating out of normal reality.

So, yes, I am frightened out of my mind.  Feels as if I am in a prisoner of war camp most days, and the guards are looking to take gleeful pot shots.  Police would be happy to join them.  My husband has also instigated a Smear Campaign amongst neighbors, church members, our kids' school teachers/admin., and anyone else who knows us.  They become his enablers, which leaves me with more enemies, and less support.  Narcissistic Abuse at its finest.  Telling them the truth rarely works.  Have you ever noticed that the first person to get their story in is usually believed?  You come later and naively, thinking the truth will counter this, and find that you are very much mistaken.  That first story has become embedded in the listener's mind, unless they are exceptional human beings.

I keep trying to find a way that Mother Love might still get through.  I am not stupid, nor a martyr.  I simply know that I may well lose my kids forever if I don't try.  And to leave our home leaves me zero access to them.  They have already blocked my e-mail account, and would never answer their phones to me. So if I leave physically, our relationships will be toast.   

[wendydarling]

Hi FlawedDesign

Thank you for sharing so clearly PA/PP and the severity of what you are dealing with, I also had a brief google and have a better understanding.

I keep trying to find a way that Mother Love might still get through.  I am not stupid, nor a martyr.  I simply know that I may well lose my kids forever if I don't try.  And to leave our home leaves me zero access to them.  They have already blocked my e-mail account, and would never answer their phones to me. So if I leave physically, our relationships will be toast.   

Mother love might still get through ... .FD have you been able to speak with a professional/specialist who truly understands your situation?

Hugs to you.   do let us know how we can support you, we are here for you.

WDx

[FlawedDesign]

Hello all,

Thank you, Wendy Darling for your reply.  I have indeed written or spoken to all of the professionals who are expert in Parental Alienation/Pathogenic Parenting (fewer than a dozen of them, actually). I had read all of their books and papers first, so I was fully prepared. 

For those interested in Parental Alienation/Pathogenic Parenting, see the work of Dr. Craig Childress (excellent), as well as Prof. Stanley Clawar ("Children Held Hostage", Linda Gottlieb, Dr. Richard Warshak, and Amy J.L. Baker.  In Canada, Prof. Nicholas Bala has legal knowledge of this area, and Dr. Barbara Fidler wrote a text on Parental Alienation used mainly in university programs. 

None of them are located in my area, however, and so it is limited to long-distance communication and what I can afford.  Fees are high for such professional services  --  not that this is unwarranted; it is just that between legal fees for my husband's frivolous and false allegations, and further help such as this, the cupboard is bare. 

Standard counselors generally have not heard of PA/PP.  It is such a specific pattern of odd behavior (see the original list of traits identified by Dr. Richard Gardner over 30 years ago), that good old common sense cannot deal with this.  And there are considered to be three levels of PA/PP, from mild to severe.  When you get to the severe level, you are dealing with Shared Psychosis in the context of BPD/NPD in the alienating parent, which then develops in the child or children.  PA/PP often happens in the context of divorce, though not always.  It has been found in intact families with a parent who has BPD/NPD. There is usually an emotional trigger of some kind that sets it off, and divorce is a common one when dealing with someone who already has a Personality Disorder.

PA/PP involves lots and lots of REVENGE by the alienating parent against the targeted parent.  For tiny slights, or nothing at all.  Go back to John Bowlby's Attachment Theory.  This revenge is thought to be the revenge the infant/baby/young child would have felt against a mother who would or could not fulfill their emotional needs.  It is projected in adult life, instead, towards their spouse or significant other, in a re-enactment of what they would have done in early life against the mother if they had had the power.  So the targeted parent is getting punishment meant for someone else... .and that someone else -- the mother of the alienating parent  -- may have been unwittingly withholding emotional security, perhaps because of being treated that way themselves when they were young.  It is a vicious cycle, until someone in the family line starts becoming aware of it, and surrenders the ego to appropriate therapy.  Like Alcoholics though, they say that a person with NPD in particular will not enter therapy and face these issues unless life absolutely forces them.     

I must apologize here to anyone I may have inadvertently offended with my previous comments on calling 9-1-1 or going to a shelter.  I realize that everyone is kind and means well.  It is just that those choices have been sadly lacking when I have tried them.   

[FlawedDesign]

Hi again,

One of the things that my kids will do is to cut off my internet access when they can, either by turning off Wi Fi access in parts of our home where I work, or stealing my laptop.  I have to be very careful.  They are constantly looking for ways to annoy or hurt me.  Their father approves.  So if I do not reply when a member has written, please do not take it amiss.  I may be forcefully incommunicado at that time.

Today's bad behavior has begun.  As I was sitting writing the previous message, my teenage daughter got up from bed, ran into the hallway screaming at me, "You f---ing lazy cow!  The dog is in the backyard barking.  Can't you manage to do anything at all that is useful?  You are a piece of SH-T!" I replied, "Well Good Morning to you, too!"  I reminded her that due to an autoimmune problem, my hearing is below par. I had not heard any barking.  Didn't matter.  And if SHE had heard our dog barking, why didn't my daughter let him in herself?  When I protested her vileness, it became worse, and she told me that everything in my life will soon be destroyed... .and she can't wait.  Lovely girl.  I keep reminding myself that I hugely love my REAL daughter. 

Has anyone read Edgar Allen Poe's short story, "The Cask of Amontillado?"  Very creepy, like most things he wrote.  This story is about a full-fledged Narcissist with a grudge against someone, for nothing, really.  That someone gets a punishment totally out of proportion to his "sin."  That is the way that a triggered NPD  behaves.  They are in love with revenge.  If you have one in your life, educate yourself as much as possible about BPD/NPD, then consider whether you stay or leave.  Leaving is far, far safer when NPD is involved, but like me, you may have mitigating circumstances.

The favourite hobby of someone with either BPD/NPD or pure NPD is making false allegations.  See the False Memory Society (U.K.) for some good information on this topic.  These people LOVE to accuse someone falsely of  either  1) Child Abuse    2)  Sexual Abuse    AND/OR   3) Virulent Mental Illness (ironic, isn't it?).  These people are Gaslighters supreme.

As a good primer on Parental Alienation/Pathogenic Parenting, by the way, I recommend Linda Gottlieb's book, "Parental Alienation Syndrome."  A bit harder going, but very worthwhile, is Prof. Stanley Clawar's "Children Held Hostage."  And try the website of Dr. Craig Childress for a lot of really excellent in-depth material on PA/PP.  Amy J.L. Baker has written a book on the outcome of PA/PP for the children involved, though I do not agree with her that these children, when grown, should never be held to account for their previous vicious behavior against a loving parent  (neither does expert Stanley Clawar, from his writings.)   

Do take care.   

FD 

[Harley Quinn]

Hi FD,

Have you had any advice on any particular communication styles/strategies that are most likely to be successful with your kids in any of the research you've done?  I'm interested to know how best this can be managed for yourself and others who might experience this type of situation.  I'm hopeful that some of the experts are able to provide some useful guidance for you to enable you to reach them in some way, even if it is a drip drip approach, which I'm sure it will be.  The behaviour you're describing certainly sounds extreme and very distressing, so to have some tools under your belt for coping and communicating effectively with your family would surely be a lifeline.

Stay strong.

Love and light x

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders