Going crazy

[Puckguy]

I have been married to my wife for almost 14 years. It has been a good but tumultuous marriage. About 3 and a half years ago, we moved away from both of our families for a job opportunity that I had. Shortly after, my wife became very depressed. She began telling me I wasn't supportive enough for her and began pushing me away. She began spending all of her time on social media, seeking out friendships and "support". Shortly thereafter, she began a romantic relationship with a guy whom she met on this social media format. She put a lot of trust in him to the point where he actually convinced her that I was an abuser. She began seeking therapy for abuse and decided she was going to ask for a separation. She knew we could not afford for me just to move out, as we have 4 children and I am the only form of income in the household. She drove me nuts daily to the point where I had to leave. I was gone for 3 months before her relationship with the guy on social media broke down. I was still in love with my wife so of course I took her back and moved back home. My biggest mistake was not realizing that she needed serious help and setting a boundary that she get that help before we reconcile.

Two months ago, it started happening all over again. She has met a man on the same social media format. She swears he is just a friend, but speaks to him up to 8 hours a day, and even in the middle of the night. She again asked me for a separation, which soon turned into her wanting a divorce. I know work as a case manager in a mental health clinic and spoke with our PHMNP about the situation. She immediately pointed out that she believed it was BPD, and recommended a few books to read. After reading "I Hate You... .Don't Leave Me". I began to recognize the behaviors I have lived with all of these years. She has began seeking therapy for a rape that she survived 6 years ago, but denies that she meets the criteria for BPD, which I believe she meets at least 6 of the 9. It has given me hope that she will come around in good time, but now question if I want to continue and get her help. I love her and my family very much, and I certainly have issues of my own, which I am beginning therapy for.  Just thought I would share my story, after reading the above book, I was in awe of how much it matched. I am just hoping the therapist she is seeing recognizes the behaviors and treats her accordingly.

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RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[pearlsw]

Hi Puckguy,

Thank you for sharing with us about what you are going through. Hopefully others will join us in helping you feel more supported by weighing in and sharing their thoughts.

Do I understand correctly that you and your wife are living together again? Are you both trying to work on the relationship or is she currently talking divorce? Are things up in the air?

When you say you hope "she will come around in good time" do you mean that you hope she can or will want to treat her possible BPD? Have you and your wife had open discussions about your belief she may have BPD?

And you are also focusing on yourself you say? Is your therapist helping you sort out about what to do given what has been going on in your relationship?

wishing you peace, pearlsw.

[Puckguy]

Thank you for your reply.

Yes, after I moved back in the last time, I have been here. We don't have the means to physically desperate and she refuses to get a job.  It started out as, "I want a separation" then gradually to "we are done". I want to work on the relationship, but she does not at this time. She states she isn't in love with me anymore and makes different reasons for why and they all point to attention issues. She is out of town at the moment and became upset because she thought I was "seeing" someone at work which isn't true. She did this in February, but I was prepared for it and I wasn't groveling for her so it only lasted a few days. This is why I am assuming at some point she will change course. I have decided that if she does, I am going to make sure she continues to go to therapy and that we seek marriage counseling as well. I tried talking to her about BPD and she immediately became defensive and insisted she has rape PTSD and that is all. I have not started seeing a therapist yet, but I had my intake appointment today. I do have my own abandonment issues that I need to deal with which makes it difficult for me to set boundaries with her. In my eyes, we can work through these issues, but right now she is enjoying another man's attention so she is not interested. This is why I just need to take care of myself.

[Meili]

... .at this time... .

That is spot on. At this time, things are one way. The next moment, they could be another.

I wouldn't suggest talking to her about BPD or other possible mental issues again. That typically ends poorly.

Have you given much thought on how you can attract her again? I know that you said that when discussing why you don't love you right now, the responses center around attention. That typically means insecurity. There is very little that you can do to make her feel less insecure (unless you are doing something to cause it, in that case, stop it). What you can do is make her feel more secure.

Let me try to explain. pwBPD fear abandonment. Strength and consistency help them understand that we are not going anywhere and they can start to feel more secure. Does that make any sense?

[Puckguy]

I really don't think it is an attraction issue. She is very good at making our marriage look horrible, when I don't think it's really much different than most. She has been really depressed for the last 3 years. She doesn't do much but sit around on social media all day. Our house is a disaster, sometimes the kids don't get their homework done because they don't get any direction from her. I have encouraged her to go back to school or work, and she starts the process, then stops. She clearly has many issues with her self esteem.

She states that the biggest issues are 1) that I don't support her emotionally, 2) that our sex life is lacking, 3) I don't respect her.  I can see some valid points in how she sees these things, but they all seem to revolve around how she feels about herself.

I work roughly about 70 hours a week right now, just to make ends meet. I try to be emotionally supportive, but it is hard when I do all the laundry, cook some nights, and help with the kids. Plus I come home to an unbearably dirty house. Our sex life has always been an issue. She is exceptionally sexual and I not so much, but I always make sure to show her love in other ways, and I have put forth effort to try to make things spicier, and when I do, she backs off sexually. It's frustrating. As for the respect issue, I respect her immensely, she sees my nagging about the house as disrespectful because I focus on that and not what she did accomplish.

She is very insecure about herself and I can read that and no matter what I do to try to build her confidence, she finds a way to destroy it. I have been talking with my psych NP at work and she has been giving me some suggestions on how to deal with things, but there is such a fine line between setting boundaries and validating her fear that I may leave, I'm having a hard time navigating.

[Meili]

I think that we might be using the word attractive in different ways. I'm not using it in a lustful sense, I'm talking whole package. I think that you'd be hard pressed to argue that she finds you attractive if she feels disrespected and unsupported by you.

I'm not saying that you should cater to her or ignore your personal boundaries regarding relationships. There are healthier ways to communicate such things however.

Have the two of you discussed and agreed to how things are going to happen in the future? Who is responsible for what tasks?

[Auspicious]

You are in a rough spot

One thing I learned in the really rough times - and that have to constantly remind myself of in the merely challenging times - is that I need to focus on what the right thing to do is, and not on how she will react to it.

So ... what is the right thing to do, when it comes to the kids, the house, the bills, etc. Also when it comes to her - to doing right by her, but not catering to her irrational or hurtful actions, no matter what is driving them.

There's no one right answer that anyone else can give you for each of those things, but if you can focus on doing what you feel to be right, and not on trying to elicit certain reactions from her, you may be surprised to see things improve - one way or another.

[isilme]

She is very insecure about herself and I can read that and no matter what I do to try to build her confidence, she finds a way to destroy it

Yes, and needs to blame you for how she feels about herself.

You can't make her feel better.  You can't fix her self-confidence issues.  All you can do is work to take care of what YOU can do yourself, and if she joins in, wonderful. 

H bashes himself all the time.  I feel it's almost like he actively looks for reasons to feel negatively - and given what I've read about BPD and observed over the years, it pretty much IS what he is doing.  He feels bad, but can't quantify it, and so looks to external reasons and people to blame for it.  Either he's the best in the world and everyone else is stupid and sucks or he's a horrible person who should just go die. 

Our spouses have severe, almost invisible limitations - their emotions are a disabling mess.  H does not clean or take care of certain things because he gets easily overwhelmed by a mess as a whole.  He cannot see how to break many tasks down into manageable bites and tackle them until its done.  It's all or nothing, black and white.  His mother is a hoarder, and his solution to a mess is always "I need to burn all my stuff/sell it/get rid of it".  Not, "I need to set aside a little time each day/week/month to take care of this task so it's not so bad".  I don't think he learned this lesson, and given how bad his mom is with cleaning, chores, or time management, she's not one to have taught it. 

If you W hears that you are upset by the house not being clean, she sees a task she FEELS she can't tackle and so doesn't address it, and then hears you telling her how she's a failure for not doing it.  At this time, talking about the elephant in the room that is the mess does not good.  You know it's messy.  She knows it's messy.  She does not see she can take care of it and so won't try if she's like my H.  He'd rather never clean than feel he failed doing it.  Or face the shame of letting things get messy.  Or deal with the emotional issues he has giving things away or throwing things away.  He actually argued over tossing a broken game system out.  "I wanted to ask my brother if he wants it".  "WHY would he want something that doesn't work? Can I please just take it to goodwill and mark it broken for parts instead of keeping it until you can ask your brother?"   

Another time, he actaully WAS trying to clean out his pile of old clothes that no longer fit.  I find this a fairly easy task, but he has trouble parting with ANYTHING. 

I also do all chores, errands, and work full time.  H may try to help, he may not, I clean for my own sanity, for my own comfort.  I try to maintain a certain level of clean within reason, but also try to give myself some slack for when I am too tired or too sick to keep the sink clear of clothes hung up.  Triage.  It's all about triage in that case. 

Sex- he claims I do not pursue.  I have been pushed away enough and chastised for getting upset at the rejection, I rarely instigate unless it's VERY clear he's interested.  And even then, it can all derail if I make a face he doesn't like if I feel anxiety, feel exhausted (2 am on a  work night is a prime time for him to be "feeling it" and I can't respond how he expects.  BPD has intimacy issues, so of course, sex gets weird. 

Right now, you need to find a happy medium where you feel you can be fine regardless of how she is currently feeling.  Maybe find just enough time to clear yourself a haven of clear, clean space that YOU can feel good in.  I like to make sure MY clothes are folded and put away.  H's, I leave in his clean pile, for him to deal with.  I found that the less I nagged, and the more I let go of expectations for him to do what he obviously can't seem to do, I was in a better place.  I usually don't feel a great amount of resentment for doing it myself.  When he does help, it's a great, welcome event.  If not, I wasn't expecting it anyway, so I'm not really disappointed. 

We need to realize the emotional disability is just as debilitating as a physical one.  Find solace in what YOU can do, refardless of if she helps or not.

[Puckguy]

Thank you all for your insights. I have put many of these ideas to work in the past. I have focused on what I am doing, rather than if I am doing it to get a reaction.

A quick update of this week. She is currently out of town visiting family. The day she left, we had an emotional moment and we both kissed and hugged. I know that our connection is still there. The day after she left, it was like we were already divorced. She was ignoring me almost completely and not calling me at all. She got angry because I went to my company Xmas party, but made it completely about spending time with the kids, which I do quite a lot of. She was passive aggressive with me and even accused me of seeing another woman at work. Sunday, out of nowhere, ahe completely changed her tune. We have been communicating and talking for long periods of time, like nothing had ever changed. Last night, I decided to give her a compliment and we ended up having a brief discussion about our situation. Then this morning all over again, she started avoiding me again. I asked her why she pushes me away when anytime we get closer. She blamed it on a migraine and then made a conscious effort to act the same, but it felt fake.

I am meeting her with the kids for the holiday and I am extremely anxious about how it is gonna go. She says she misses me, but still seems dead set on separating. I am really confused on how to even act around her.