The end of the world has been cancelled (he's back).

[pearlsw]

  Can’t type much but he is calm and back home now. Am sorting out lessons from this and will post more as soon as possible. Thanks for all the support everyone!

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Tattered Heart]

Yay! Big sigh of relief. So happy for you. Have the hard conversations if needed while in the afterglow. Looking forward to the update.

[Notwendy]

My hope for you is that you look for patterns in this, not at these episodes as isolated events. Going back and forth between extremes- I love you, you are the worst thing ever, I love you, I am leaving you. If his emotions are a roller coaster, you don't have to ride them with him.

Can you maintain your own sense of well being - independent of his moods? This is what I was trying to explain in the threads here and on conflicted. So he wakes up on the wrong side of the bed, it is the end of the world, he's going to leave and off he goes and doesn't contact you. This isn't pleasant , but if you see it as a pattern, then this is just who he is. You don't have to go down this path with him.

Whatever you did during this interval had no effect on his state of mind. You could be miserable or- go out, take a walk, do something fun until he works it out. Now, when things seem stable and you are not upset, is the time to work on some kind of life for you in this area - as it seems you do plan on being there with him. If your sole reason to be there is only him, then his decisions about the relationship will also be the determinant of your feelings and well being.

You have some work during the day, but there must be times when he is out and you are on your own. Is there something you can do to address your isolation? Surely there must be some kind of outlets to meet people- churches, volunteer work, take a language class, a library. Think of things you can do for you, so that when these episodes happen, you are able to be OK.

[DaddyBear77]

Hey pearls, first of all, I am really glad that you are able to be in an emotionally “high” place for now. Being in that emotional “low” pit feels horrible. It really is a roller coaster. I totally get it.

One thing I’d caution you about - and this comes from my own experience and learnings: If you think there was some magic thing you said or some awesome combination of words that brought him back, please reconsider that carefully. If it was true that you finally found the right combination of words, consider what would happen next time he leaves, if you were to say the exact same thing in the exact same way, right as he was walking out the door. Would he have stopped in his tracks and come back? Could you somehow use those words next time to turn this into a 10 minute episode rather than a week long one?

The answer is probably no. And I’ll admit that even as I’m typing this, some part of me still thinks that it was my magic combination of words and actions that turned my own situation around. But I know better.

As Notwendy says, try and focus on this as a repeatable pattern that you need to ride out, and consider how best to maintain your own emotional well being next time while he works out his pattern.

Just some thoughts from my own experience; I am genuinely happy that things are positive for you again. I hope things continue down that path as long as possible.

 

[Notwendy]

Also consider that if there wasn't a magic word or deed that brought him back, there also wasn't a word or deed that caused him to go away. (unless you actually deliberately did something, but you would know that).

What I've observed is that projection of bad feelings lands on the next "reason" which is external- and that "reason" could be whatever you said or did in the moment, or the next slight mistake you might have done ( but we all do that - nobody is perfect). It could be that you were slightly less attentive because of something that had nothing to do with him-- but he interpreted it that way.


All you and anyone can do in any relationship is the best they can do- his interpretations and feelings are his own internal world.

[pearlsw]

Hi all,

Quick update until I can write more. I don’t have illusions that I said or did something magical to bring him back. I am glad he is back only because that gives a chance to communicate. It has had its ups and downs - ones which I expected and know well from him. I was just relieved because it put an end to him being away and brought up the chance to communicate. He is actually very interested in starting DBT. His idea, not mine and not a requirement by me.

More soon!

[pearlsw]

Here’s an update in the hope that there are lessons for us in here somewhere…

So, we met in public on Thursday. It felt like it was the same old stuff. He was being very cold and holding a firm position on divorce. Fine. I left. We exchanged notes on a couple more points a little later. I was settling in to wait another week and then reevaluate - wanted to get some cash back that I loaned him sooner than previously agreed to so I could eat for awhile with him indefinitely away. He called back and kept wanting to negotiate a divorce he said. He was remarkably calm through most things, but has a tendency to interrupt and insult which can easily lead to arguments if I am not mindful and drop my communication tools.

He was insisting on a divorce, I said that would be fine, but only after I had a chance to wait and see about his mood shifting again.  I said that his mood had shifted very suddenly on Sunday and it didn’t seem like the right time for such a big decision. I let him know after the earlier talk (via note) that we could shift to talking via a mediator or a lawyer if need be. He was very firm in telling me I was “delusional”, that the last nice weeks “were an illusion” and I better take him seriously.

This phone conversation took a few turns. I tried to steer out of JADE-ing, but felt I had to hear out some of what he was feeling. It was hard to find a balance between giving him room to express his feelings, and me not having to hear painful insults. Well, I managed to steer him away from his negative talk, and after a lot of positive talk from me he broke. He began sobbing, crying and begging me to comfort him and wanting me to express my love for him. (Not to this extent, but I do this on a daily basis - express love.) The core of things is him not feeling loved, fears and jealousies, etc. He will take the smallest signs and twist things pretty hard. He and I both certainly have valid reasons if either of us wants to end things, but I tried to push through and hear what the pain was about. I told him it was okay to come back for a little while or take more time to himself - either was okay with me. After lots of crying he rushed home to move back in. He was much thinner and totally exhausted. His face, when he is dysregulating, looks like a totally different person. He is very ill.

I think late in the night on Friday he angrily threatened to run off again. His negative thoughts took over again - he and I both saw it happening and he asked for help. I did not try to stop him leaving, but I did take some time to talk, but there was only so much more talking I could take. He stayed, calmed a bit, and wanted more talking on Saturday morning. (He can’t sleep normally and then is alone with his negative thoughts and then loses it. He is now saying he thinks he has PTSD.) I am willing to talk, but not argue. But I see that what the “talks” are about is him needing me to give him positive thoughts to replace his negative ones. If I can out talk the negative thoughts he can rebalance. I can do this sometimes. I want him to pick up this skill, but he needs professional help - it is too much work and responsibility. I can support, but he has to take this on. He woke up extra early this morning too and is just barely holding on.

Over the last days he begged me to help him and never leave him and never stop loving him. He is very embarrassed and ashamed of himself. He feels like he is “crazy”.  When I am skillful about it I don’t mind talking, to a point. I walk a fine line and don’t have as much energy as he needs for me to explain stuff over and over. He also has a terrible memory as it is (he says it is & seems true) and this is his 3rd language so I am sure discussions don’t always stick. We also come from very different cultural worlds so there is stuff he just doesn’t quite get from my side - stuff that takes a lot of work to talk over. I told him firmly we can talk about his jealousy issues/insecurities but I am not going to listen or engage a list of all the imaginary men he wants to accuse me of being attracted to or sleeping with, etc. Some of it crosses limits for me and feels disrespectful, but he was surprisingly understanding on that at times. He insists he wants to be respectful, bring me happiness, not insult me, etc.

I must say, I wonder if at times I have shut his feelings down more than I realize because they are so overwhelming for me. This is something I want to remain mindful of and find a good healthy balance with.

But I must admit, there is just a lot of stuff he is totally confused about. We have different mother tongues and speak in his third language. He is very advanced in English, but can get easily confused even on a good day if I don’t pick my phrases carefully - use double negatives, too many expressions, etc. He is also hard of hearing and cannot multi-task, tends to hyperfocus. (His main previous relationship experience was a pretty horrible/unhappy one and he is "super happy with me" and "knows the value of what he has and does not want to lose it" he says.) It takes a lot of patience, concentration, and compassion. He feels I am hiding things from him and don’t want to talk to him, but I tried to explain it’s not that I don’t want to talk, but certain factors make him not easy to talk to about all issues. (There was a big example on this recently.) He will pick the one unpopped kernel from a bucket of conversational popcorn and focus on that and that only.

He gets stuck in a cycle of very negative thoughts. He was surprisingly self aware this time though. He told me he noticed he was starting to have sleep problems, then my health problem came up (he called it the trigger for this meltdown), and his thoughts became darker and darker and he could not control his thoughts anymore. He described it like a black fog descending over his brain. It scares him. He feels like he “is crazy” and he does not want this. He has a sibling with Schizroprenia who is unable to work and is heavily medicated so this scares him. I am relatively sure his father also had a mental illness that also greatly affected his mother - nearly driving her to commit suicide until she finally kidnapped his younger siblings and fled the country they were living in to get away from his father. (Wish I had taken notes on what she told me years ago about this.)

Coinciding with all this, the morning he recently ran off, his ex had contacted him telling him to “come and pick up his S12 (!) and bring him here, that she didn’t want him around anymore!” He didn’t mention this to me until a week later. He managed to help his son with dealing with his mother who also seems to have mental health issues. (other long stories) I wonder how much of what my h does are fleas he picked up from being with her (there are extreme stories about her), and his own stuff, and all kinds of stuff. It’s a real soup of dysfunction. Wish I’d ordered the salad!  

Wanting to better understand his feelings, I surveyed and asked him how he felt about the contact we had after he left, and how he felt while away. He felt it was important that I made an effort to keep a connection open with him. He said he was very angry at me but the short, nice notes helped him to get out of the anger. He simply can’t control his thoughts. He is quite ill. He didn’t feel rewarded or as if I begged him to come back. He says he needs a “connection” with me. (more details here too for another time.)

I don’t count on anything, but I am hoping to follow up on his desires for improvement/better health. He wants to see about getting a diagnosis and treatment, but there are some complications with that in terms of work, insurance, costs, etc. and I don’t think that can happen quickly unfortunately - it would be nice to capitalize on this crisis and propel things forward though.  I am hoping that his illness(es?) could be helped by medication in terms of the mood swings and this rapid cycling I am witnessing. (He got shots twice year for psychotic episodes and that seemed to help temporarily.) I am leaving it in the hands of the pros to sort it out. I am willing to help, but I am not taking this on as a project. He’s got to take the lead on it. He says he won’t start on it today, but will very soon. We’ll see. He’s actually wanted help for awhile and perhaps I didn’t support that enough for my own reasons. (more details here too.) He wants me in the room with him if he talks to anyone so I can help speed up the process and articulate it for him. I don’t put my stock in this, but I am impressed by his self-awareness and willingness to try to improve.

I have no illusions that in the meantime there won’t be more incidents like this. I have been through this many times and I expect he will keep upping the ante to make sure he is very convincing and can demand more “love” out of me when he is in doubt over it.

I recently introduced a pain scale so we could both monitor his physical pain (he's doing much better!) and we are talking over ways to monitor his emotional pain. We’ll see. Thanks for reading.

[DaddyBear77]

Wow pearls what an incredibly difficult situation. Your H seems to be really struggling, but it seems like there’s some hope that this situation can be a catalyst for change.

What stood out for me was the observation that a professional needs to be involved. I think that’s a very solid observation and one that should probably be emphasized. As people who love and support our pwBPD (and other disorders, too), we are the front line but we’re certainly not the experts. Maybe we’re a little like first responders, or the folks that come upon a horrible situation and must decide on the best next steps of care. I hope this is something you and your H and pursue sooner rather than later - it sounds like you’re both really suffering.

And kudos to you for also dealing with the language barriers. That’s something that not everyone has to deal with, and it sounds like you’re doing an amazing job. To be able to use communication tools while at the same time adjusting your style of English to accommodate your H - I’m impressed!

You’re a very strong and resilient person, pearls. One last thing: don’t forget to eat, rest, and take good care of yourself too.

[pearlsw]

Hi DaddyBear77,

Thanks for your note! Yes, I have a lot of sympathy for my husband's struggles. (I've unfortunately seen a lot of men get really raw deals in divorces and custody stuff.) He really went through a lot in life before we met, most especially in his first, very difficult marriage. I think that is why I overlooked some of the early red flags because his extreme behavior initially seemed to make some sense. He'd been through a lot and it made sense he was not balanced and making mistakes with me.  I gave him a lot of leeway, but at some point it just didn't seem to let up and became too much. I think he still has a lot to recover from and I hope he will in time. His divorce and custody battles were horrible, he always seemed to lose when it seemed like he should prevail. It was painful to watch. He seems pretty motivated these days.  Just his sudden, unexpected reduction in physical pain has given him a spring in his step and brought him back to life lately. There are lots of reasons for hope here. No matter what I just want him to have more happiness and hopefully more balance in life.

Thanks for the reminder to take care of me! Yesterday I did weights and HIIT training and I'm gonna get sugar out again once this celebratory time passes. I was craving it a bit lately to deal with all this drama, but it's so bad for your teeth and it kinda makes you crazy!

[RolandOfEld]

Hi pearlsw. This is actually thegoodsoldier. I changed my name when it occurred to me if my wife ever found this forum she would recognize it from long ago. I am sorry I have not been on the forum recently. I found I was focusing my entire life on my wife's BPD and needed some time to step away from it and start to see her as a person again.

But I thought of you during that time and was upset to get back on and see how your situation has progressed. I think you are coping with much more complication and difficulty than I am and I send you all the strength I can.

I can only give you some reference from my situation and hope it helps. I can see my wife has been making efforts to cope with her issues on her own and the last few weeks have been more stable by comparison. But it seems like she thinks self help books and positive thinking will take care of it when I know she needs psychiatric treatment. After a lovely weekend she suddenly dysregulated last night and was informing me this morning how she's leaving the country tomorrow to live her own life (pretty sure that's not going to happen).

I know I am falling apart and little help to my wife / children right now, so I am arranging counseling for myself, privately during my lunch hour over Skype. If I can improve the problems in myself that are unrelated to her, I believe I can give her more space to breathe. This I hope will lead to her accepting some couple's therapy, and perhaps someday from there she will get the more specific help she needs. One day at a time.

Above all things while taking care of your husband do remember to take care of yourself first! Its not selfishness, its better for him and for you.     

[pearlsw]

Hi RolandofEid,

Thanks very much for checking in! That is incredibly nice of you! And yes it helps!

That's great - I wish I could afford a therapist and do it totally privately. I'd be nice to unload of a bit of the stress I am under at times, on the other hand... .the times I have talked to counselors I tend to feel more like a curiosity... .I always want them to say more, but... .it never quite works. It feels very draining at times. I dunno. I am keeping busy with other stuff that allows my mind to rest in a happy place. I study languages and practice speaking them when I can.

Oh yes. It is so very complicated - thank you for noticing! I wish I felt more free to write it all out and get a better handle on it. I think unless I can get full-time work things are not going to get better for me here. I would love to be working two jobs and just pour myself into that. Being a workaholic is the most appealing thing I can think of in fact! I hear ya - focusing on my partner's BPD is taking more of time than I'd like too! I'm glad I've put time into thinking about it and working on it, but I really need to put myself back in first place in my life. 

Thank you so much for the kind words and positive ideas! Yes, I think you are right on this - I need to take care of myself too! Hey, and very glad you are still here! I appreciate being able to share these struggles!