Should I have used S.E.T.? (Need help with a tool)

[pearlsw]

Hi everyone,

So, this morning I was up and studying, my h was up shortly after me. He walked into the room and declared he was mad at me. "Uh-oh", I thought. "Where is this going?" I asked why but he didn't want to tell me, I (foolishly) started guessing... .I quickly remembered last night he'd gone to bed earlier than me. When I later went to the same bed he wanted to "cuddle" a bit, but not really... .he wanted me to take care of business for him, if you will. I just wanted to cuddle and drop off to sleep... .He seemed to go along with it at the time... .Anyway, he persisted in his "I'm mad, but I'm not gonna tell you why" stuff.

I stopped the guessing and I had started to JADE (You said you wanted to "cuddle", etc. etc. but stopping before an argument over who is or isn't getting enough sex started or what the definition of "cuddling" is... .) when I just decided to quiet down and think. I went ahead and slipped out of the room on an apparently reasonable pretext to do so... .

Well, I could spend time going over why this is stressful (he's a bit hypersexual) and irritating (same issues over and over) for me, but instead I want to ask, could I have used S.E.T. in this instance?  The basic complaint is "I wanted sex and you hurt me because you didn't do what I want when I wanted it".

What could I say to that? (Using this lesson: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=143695.0)

Support- I care about you and know you like to feel close with me.
Empathy- You must feel a bit sad/rejected. (?)
Truth- We were both tired and quickly fell asleep, it was late, but there is more time today since you are home so let's make the best of that.

What I did was wait until I was less irritated and then went back, before the anger and silence built up for him, and sang a silly song and made him laugh. He thought it was so funny he wanted a kiss and he's been in that mode ever since. I say something funny and he wants me to run to him and kiss him. (He works from home some days) That worked, but I just wished I'd also had words that addressed his feelings instead of just trying to change his mood on my own.

Anyone else want to practice S.E.T.?

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[flourdust]

It seems like your final strategy (wait a bit, then make him laugh to reengage) worked just fine!

You also could have let the statement that he was mad at you just sit there, instead of chasing after his feelings by guessing and JADEing.

Or you could try SET. It might work, it might not. Consider it an experiment for next time, if you are interested in seeing what happens.

Let me critique your SET statement a bit. OK?

Support- I care about you and know you like to feel close with me. Careful here with going into mind-reading instead of support. Watch out for telling him what his feelings are. Try instead something like "I really want to help."
Empathy- You must feel a bit sad/rejected. (?) Mind-reading again. He's already told you he's mad, so that makes it easy - just reflect it back at him. "I understand why you're mad about last night."
Truth- We were both tired and quickly fell asleep, it was late, but there is more time today since you are home so let's make the best of that. There's some truth, but also a bit of JADEing and trying to move quickly to a solution before he's engaged with your SET. Slow your roll here. "Sometimes I'm just too tired by the time I go to bed. It's not a rejection."

Then see if the conversation goes anywhere from there that lets you talk about planning to do things differently in the future.

[Tattered Heart]

Crossposted with flourdust

Great job looking at how to better use a skill! Practice makes all the difference. Just a couple additions.

Empathy- You must feel a bit sad/rejected. (?)

I tend to use this kind of wording too. At the same time I get hesitant about wording it like this because I worry that if I choose the wrong feeling, then he will accuse me of telling him what he is supposed to feel. I'm still trying to work out that wording. I'm leaning towards something like "I know what it's like to feel sad/rejected or something like that" but I"m still shaky with it. Thoughts on that?

Truth- We were both tired and quickly fell asleep, it was late, but there is more time today since you are home so let's make the best of that.

We were both tired and quickly fell asleep, it was late, but there is more time today since you are home so let's make the best of that.

First part could be taken as JADEing.

Love how you lightened the mood with a silly song. To me this is a way of not walking on egg shells. You showed him that you were not scared of his mood and were willing to move on with the day towards togetherness instead of focusing on the disagreement.

AND don't forget to give him credit because he also came to you and said he was upset (even if you had to pry the reason out of him. Baby steps.)

[Sunfl0wer]

Truth- We were both tired and quickly fell asleep, it was late, but there is more time today since you are home so let's make the best of that. There's some truth, but also a bit of JADEing and trying to move quickly to a solution before he's engaged with your SET. Slow your roll here. "Sometimes I'm just too tired by the time I go to bed. It's not a rejection."

Telling her, who likely feels rejected that it is not a rejection... .is invaildating.  Imo, stick with your truth... .  (not defending hers)

Idk, I still hear a JADE in all this.

I prefer:  I love spending time with you, my favorite is when xyz these are the best times.

Then if prodded well why not last night... .
Do an S, an E and the T: I am able to enjoy and love our time together when I am not worn out.  Last night, I agree, was not as lovey as I wished.

[pearlsw]

Wow! This is just super! Thanks everyone very much for the critiques and insights!

I see these lessons, and reread them often, but I sometimes wish they had more examples so this is greatly appreciated. I am going to try to write down these things when they happen and then post later when I have time. I could use some help with fine tuning. I tend to use a lot of "I feel" statements and try to be non-accusatory to avoid arguments, but I have a long way to go.

Okay, got it. I am mind-reading too much! And when it comes down to it I tend not to let him express his feelings. I am so afraid of them, because they tend to be so strong, I sort of avoid them or distract him. I'd like to let him feel more heard. I think this could avoid more blow ups. He's cut down and he's been feeling proud of himself lately that he calms himself a lot more than he has in the past. He really will mirror stuff if he can just see it modeled by me - so me being really good at this stuff matters.

It's funny. He loves the silly song because it is about him and I change and add it to it all the time! (And I didn't mention the dancing parts, but those help too.) He loves to be the center of my attention and have love showered on him... .It gives him a stronger sense of security I notice. He also likes to be pampered a bit... .be given beauty treatments! So, all that stuff helps him feel secure and cared for.

So this is the tricky part for a lot of us. We can understand the feeling, but not agree with it somehow, right? I mean, I can say "I understand how you felt about last night" although I don't agree with his attitude in general, right? I wish he could be more patient and understanding about how hard it is to feel super excited about intimacy with him... .When someone brings such insecurity to my life I'm pretty stressed and sex is the last thing I want. For him it is a source of stress relief. So we are quite at opposite places on this.

Thanks again for putting your eyes on this and helping out! Just super!

[Notwendy]

I think there's some mind reading on both your parts. When he says "cuddle"- he's expecting you to read his mind and what's on his mind isn't cuddling. So you take him at his word, cuddle and fall asleep- and then he reads your mind as a rejection of him, not the reality - that you love him but you are tired and just want to cuddle.

When people mind read, and expect others to mind read " if she loved me she'd know what I want and not have to say it" it can lead to all kinds of misunderstanding. Such a superhuman expectation is bound to lead to disappointment. People can't read minds. We can become good guessers, but not mind readers.

Not being able to say "I want to be intimate with you" also comes from insecurity and fear of rejection. So much easier to say "cuddle" and hope you get what you want ( which probably happens too). You're not going to say "no" to a cuddle, but you might say "no" to sex. It is less of a risk.

You can't control his mind reading- he is going to think what he wants. SET  to me is more about expressing reality. Honey, I hear that you are angry at me, and I would like to understand why- but I don't know why unless you wish to tell me. I love you and am ready to talk about it when you are" and let him choose to discuss this with you. It's his feeling- his anger and also his choice to tell you or not.

Anger is a tough thing for me. I grew up fearing this and when people are angry, it is scary to me. However, unless I deliberately do something mean to someone, or they tell me why they are angry at me, and I have something to apologize for, I can't really do much to impact whether they are angry at me or not.

It seems you have a common difference with sex. In general, I have read that women want to feel close in order to have sex, and men feel close through sex. I don't know if that is true for everyone but it seems to fit me. If this is a difference with the two of you- how to work with this? You know that when he says "cuddle' he probably means something else. Maybe you can have the conversation " I love to cuddle with you and I also enjoy being intimate with you. Sometimes I am confused when we say "cuddle" . Can we work this out so we can enjoy both? Maybe we need different words to say what we want" and see how that goes.

[pearlsw]

Hi Notwendy, Thank you! I think it is a few things all together in one. My partner and I do not share the same native language so that affects a lot of our interactions and misunderstandings right out the gate - although he is very advanced in the language we use. Also, he grew up in a culture where men and women are kept separate in most situations so there is some built in misunderstanding on roles and what is allowed or not allowed, etc. inside and outside of marriage. His first wife was from a non-Western culture, he is from 2 cultures, and I am from a non-dominant culture in my native country. He was also sexually abused I just found out last year (after already many years of us together - and I was the first person he told) and I'm just starting to see how this affects stuff between us. I think he was also upset because I was focused on a strict definition of cuddling that night and not wanting sexual intercourse at that time. He has a track record of losing his mind if he does not have intercourse, dysregulates, so I've been dealing with that too for years. Though this is getting better since I don't push him away as I used to when he was so offensive, mean, and awful to me - before I realized the implications of his abandonment issues and emotional sensitivity.

We have a running issue over him not being able to just cuddle. If he is near me he wants sex. Period. There is literally no amount that would ever satisfy and keep him from complaining in my opinion. His attitude also compromises the "quality" and duration, but he doesn't seem to notice to be honest.

I never had any issues with sex at all in past relationships. It was all happy, easy and fun. I never met a man who complained in any way about sex. What an eye opener for me! I never met someone so complicated, but it is what it is and I have to deal with it - all at once sometimes. Another big problem is he doesn't want to ever "take care of business" himself so he sometimes tries to make me responsible for all of that. I find that a bit much.

I prefer, after years of his stuff, to keep conversations on this topic as short as possible. Wish I could do more, but he doesn't seem well equipped for such discussions. It takes all I can to be comfortable and vulnerable with him from my side. I have tried to do some playful/funny things with this to make it more lighthearted and that has gone over well. On this topic I just try to keep it calm and managed... .discussing sex with someone with some of his viewpoints and extreme feelings is just horrible I must admit. He tends to feel terribly rejected no matter how carefully I try to word it (so far). I just try to keep aware of his basic complaints and deal with them without getting a lot of emotion involved - for either of us. I am also sick and tired of his nasty remarks about me as a sexual being in the thirty years before I knew him - and through the present too. I never heard such insults in all my life. 

Yep. He probably said "cuddle" to get to something else. Or he got turned on and then he is only focused on himself and what he wants. He literally can't be near me, as odd and creepy as this sounds, without getting turned on. So, once that happens, he wants to finish - and for me to do it for him. It is a very immature kind of thing on his part. A lot of his dysregulation has been tied up with this which is I'm willing to reveal this - in the hopes it might help others too who deal with this stuff. I don't really like talking about it which is unusual for me because I tend to be an open person, but his stuff around this has just made life so difficult. And I admit, of all issues we have, this is one of the worst and also the one I'd most like to shove off to the side out of my mind. 

I try to be happy and offer what I can to him without letting myself feel horrible.

[Tattered Heart]

So this is the tricky part for a lot of us. We can understand the feeling, but not agree with it somehow, right? I mean, I can say "I understand how you felt about last night" although I don't agree with his attitude in general, right?

Absolutely! This just shows him that you hear him and acknowledge what he is saying.

Once you feel more comfortable with the not agreeing with it but hearing him, you may even start to add in the T part of SET that might say something like "I want to listen to your concerns, but I need to hear specifics about what is bothering you. WHen I get the silent treatment I can't read your mind." or something much more delicately worded.