do we matter to the BPD?

[OptimismRules]

I just read"stop caretaking the borderline and narcissist" and found it insightful.

Last night I finally got that I don't matter to my uBPDgf.  She knew I had a nasty cold and was heading to her house.  She said she was going to the grocery store to pick something up quick then asked if I wanted to pick her in and take her.  She hurt her leg so I dropped her off at the curb and told her I would park and meet her in the store. She got mildly angry and that she was just going to get one thing  and will be right out, there's no point in my coming in.  So I waited in the car for over 25 minutes until she came out with three bags of stuff. Then of course she wanted to go get something to eat and I thought since it might help me feel better I would get some soup.  When the restaurant for about an hour and a half and of course I felt totally awful by the end of it.   Naturally I picked up the $50 check.  Thought we were heading home.

But no, she need me to take her by the post office several miles away in the next to several miles away in the next hour town.  Needless to say we got back to house I was ready to roll over and die. Didn't seem to get much sympathy though.

Made me realize how little she cares about me.   Made me realize how little she cares about me  I also realized that when she has someone to do something with other than me she doesn't need me.  Whether it's a friend going out for the evening or relatives coming in for the week, I don't need to be around.  But if she's alone and I'm not there, oh my God.

 And I get a one-way this relationship is which shouldn't be all that surprising.   I assume lots of you seeing this kind of thing too.  leading me to believe I  I need to Wind this thing down. 

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Tattered Heart]

Was there something in particular you expected from her to show you sympathy?

The option to say no to running all her errands with her is available. Sometimes we get stuck in the mentality that we have to do what they want. We don't. It's ok to tell our pwBPD no. It just has to be done in a way that takes their emotions into account. So in your scenario, could you say something like:

Have you ever tried saying something like:

"I know you like that post office in the next town and want to get your errands done. I'm really tired though. Tomorrow I'll take you to the post office." THis is called SET

[Meili]

I agree with  Tattered Heart, you do have the option to say no. It sounds like there is a bit of fear, obligation, and/or guilt (FOG) happening.

Do you truly believe that she doesn't care, or did she just not meet your expectations? Expectations are evil things that bring frustration and heartache. It's best to not have them.

[Frankee]

Expectations are evil things that bring frustration and heartache. It's best to not have them.

I had to chime in.  I agree that I feel I fall short a lot with my pwBPD.  Like nothing I do is ever good enough.  Remember not to drive yourself into the ground trying to appease their expectations or what they expect to happen.  She may have known you had a nasty cold, but sometimes you have to tell them things like Tattered Heart said.  She may have been so wrapped up in what she needed to get done that she wasn't stopping to take into consideration with how you truly felt.  Nobody is a mind reader.  I told my pwBPD that.  He can't read my mind and he needs to stop making assumptions about how Im truly feeling.  It took alot of guts for me to tell him that and it was after a very nasty fall out. 

Maybe try seeing what happens when you tell her how you truly feel instead of expecting her to know.  I also understand that it is easier said than done.

[MissGuided]

I agree with  Tattered Heart, you do have the option to say no. It sounds like there is a bit of fear, obligation, and/or guilt (FOG) happening.

Do you truly believe that she doesn't care, or did she just not meet your expectations? Expectations are evil things that bring frustration and heartache. It's best to not have them.

Is that one of the things that we need to do differently when in a realtionship with a BPD? I mean normally we do go into relationships with the expectation of being treated with love and affection. I guess a "normal" person would not ask so much of someone who is sick if they have empathy. I am still not clear on this topic. Are BPD's capable of feeling empathy?

OptimismRules. Did you feel olbigated? were you afraid to anger her and trigger some sort of negative behaviour towards you? I am fairly new to this, but I read a lot how many posters feel like they are walking on egg shells. I felt like that some times. But after a bit I just stopped engaging in the back and for of the conversaion. i would just listen to her long winded voice mesages ( and would reply with a thank you for exprssing hwo you feel) or I would read her texts without having much to say (and simply replying I understand how you feel). At first i was afraid of not having the right answers and that caused m to be in a thoughtful silence... Then it was a matter of removing myself from the argument and not fueling the fire. But as I mentioned I am fairly new to this and right now my exBPD and I are not even talking so eprhaps my approach was not correct? It is difficult to evaluate these kinds fo interactions as they are like nothing else we are accostumed to. Keep us posted on any further developments.

[Frankee]

There is never a right or wrong response.  What may be considered "right" one day, is completely "wrong" the next.  I think people diagnosed with BPD have normal feelings like everyone else.  They just seemed amplified.  No emotional skin and extremely sensitive.  Sometimes their response to a situation is completely blown out of context.  I find with my H that when he usually explodes, it not because of that one incident.  There is usually something else going on and that one thing is the trigger and his excuse to verbal vomit all of his negative feelings because he can't stand the pain.  Doesn't make it right.  Doesn't make it okay.  I just see that's what happens with him.

[Meili]

Is that one of the things that we need to do differently when in a realtionship with a BPD? I mean normally we do go into relationships with the expectation of being treated with love and affection. I guess a "normal" person would not ask so much of someone who is sick if they have empathy. I am still not clear on this topic. Are BPD's capable of feeling empathy?

BPD is a spectrum disorder, so it's hard (and a bad idea) to pigeon-hole anyone into a specific description.

I would argue that they feel empathy just like every other emotion, and they feel it with intensity. But, because of the hypersensitivity to rejection they are more focused on keeping themselves safe. I've read many people around here talk about how much love and empathy their pwBPD shows to animals. I think that is because the animal typically won't reject them. But, it does show that they can feel empathy.

[oshinko maki]

Mine will cry with sympathy about something pitiable on tv, but has never shown sympathy for me when I have been sick or injured. The absence of empathy really surprised and disappointed me at first, then made me feel lonely, and now I take it in stride (as I look forward to fulfilling my plan to separate one day in the coming years).

The ability to cry about people you don't know but show no empathy for family may indicate the extreme degree of fear or hurt, etc., that leads to extreme behaviors and lack of normally expected behaviors.

I fully understand that I do not matter to my BPD wife (beyond the practical utility she feels I provide for her every day life, a utility that I feel she greatly overrates and have told her as such as I do essentially nothing for her ever, intentionally so that she will not depend on me, but still she feels me necessary, to my great chagrin (if that's the word) because I have wanted divorce for years).

[Lady Itone]

I believe my pwBPD feels empathy and I matter to her. I think it's why I didn't recognize her at first as a cluster B even though she wasn't my first.

However, I often feel exBPDgf can't distinguish my needs as seperate from hers. Like I'm a part of her. Or, she considers her needs absolutely overwhelming, so mine get bulldozed. Too often it's hard to get her to understand how draining the constant requests for help can be.

 I often say no to giving rides and running errands I hate doing that stuff and find it stressful, even when not sick.

[Tattered Heart]

Is that one of the things that we need to do differently when in a realtionship with a BPD? I mean normally we do go into relationships with the expectation of being treated with love and affection. I guess a "normal" person would not ask so much of someone who is sick if they have empathy. I am still not clear on this topic. Are BPD's capable of feeling empathy?

I'm learning that removing all expectations of all my relationships creates a more positive experience in general. Even in normal relationships we are not always treated with love and affection nor do we always treat others the same. In a BPD relationship it's just occurs more frequently.

pwBPD are capable for feeling empathy. It's just a little trickier to get to because they have to get past themselves first, which is often hard. I've had several experiences over the past few months where my H's empathy for me was so surprising. Here's the thing though, I had to specifically tell him that my issue was not about him (the rejection that Meili mentioned) but something personal and then tell him what I needed/wanted from him. Once he knew that, he was the most supportive I've ever seen in our many years of marriage.

[Frankee]

I had to specifically tell him that my issue was not about him (the rejection that Meili mentioned) but something personal and then tell him what I needed/wanted from him.

I agree with this.  I have had to tell my H that certain things were not about him.  Sometimes I don't always say it in the nicest way.  Mostly when I'm tired, stressed, not feeling well, in a grump mood.  I'm trying to be better about telling him in a nicer gentler way.

[ortac77]

Interesting question, do we matter?

My own experience is that we either matter too much or alternatively  not at all. Comes down partly to splitting but I think more so that everything is seen through a different lens.

Certainly I think in my case I am seen as kind of 'non human' - if I have feelings (which of course I do) these are somehow not valid or beyond his comprehension- my feelings have to be seen through his lens which seems to interpret everything from his own distorted perspective.

As a 'non' I know that feelings are just that, they inform me of something but in themselves they are not real - just thoughts. For my pwBPD feelings seem to be reality and override what is really happening. Emotional Intensity Disorder sums it up well, because it is disordered thinking unrelated to reality.

Sadly that can often leave us feeling unloved, uncared for and that they are incapable of empathy. However we tell them about our feelings, kindly or grumpily may have little bearing on their view.

IMHO

Ortac

[Frankee]

As a 'non' I know that feelings are just that, they inform me of something but in themselves they are not real - just thoughts. For my pwBPD feelings seem to be reality and override what is really happening. Emotional Intensity Disorder sums it up well, because it is disordered thinking unrelated to reality.

Sadly that can often leave us feeling unloved, uncared for and that they are incapable of empathy. However we tell them about our feelings, kindly or grumpily may have little bearing on their view.

Wow... you really hit the nail on the head.  It makes a lot of sense.  I've tried to form a logical thought on this whole thing, but always felt like it slipped through my hands.  I don't know how many times I would be left standing there, wondering... what in the hell just happened?  What I was accused of or my H's perspective of a situation sometimes is just like... wow... are you serious?  As "non" or "emotional healthy", no matter how much reading, studying, trying to change responses etc., there are just some instances where you just aren't prepared for the absurdity that they spew.