NPD Using Kids to leverage power in the family

[Depression = 72% of members]

I need practical tips to counteract my spouse's manipulative behavior while I plan my exit strategy Please help.

Scenario- THIS IS AN EXAMPLE

The 18yo teenager is a pawn.SO is having him report anything that happens while she is not home. At times she has been covertly manipulative to him and done some things that I needed to interfere with. TA (teen) knows there are problems. Because she is not very nice to him anymore I would not have predicted that he would talk about things that I do. Apparently, she is using him to get all the info and allegations together that she can. He is also embellishing. One day SO was saying that TA needs more privileges, and I agreed and half-jokingly said I think he should go out, go hang around at the library, be social, give the kid $10 and set a curfew, after all he is an adult.

SO then tells TA that I said that he should get out of the house every morning and not return until 10pm. She is creating me as the bad guy, and SO told TA that she would never let that happen that she is the one who is protecting him. She has also begun to be the source of all of his wants, needs, and desires. (as well as the three other kids) SO is also expanding on things we agreed would be inappropriate for him due to his individual challenges. Things like giving him metal objects which he will fashion into other structures. She is outright defying me, telling him she is defying me, and using the tactic that I am the one who is so strict, unreasonably. She is an absolute liar. She is allowing him to do things that sabotage my relationship with him, set him up to self-destruct, and is blaming ME saying things like"you are going to make him a monster"

Ok, so she makes a dr appointment for the little kids, gets up and gets them dressed and going - I ask her what she is doing (I go to all appointments as of the last 2.5yrs) and she informs me they have the dentist-NEVER TOLD ME. so Im losing my mind angry, but I try not to feed the beast and just stay calm. She leaves and I go upstairs to TA tell that I absolutely never said I would throw him out all day! REDICULOUS! And while I acknowledge it was wrong of me I also brought up about 5 things that SO did or said to TA that was not ok, and then asked him if I have ever once done or said anything to him that was not ok? to which he answered no, and I said to him that I am sorry that I have failed him at times but he needs to know I have argued with SO over and over about her approach and her telling him that was a lie and wrong, think about it, and don't get suckered into it.

I proceed to go back downstairs, blast some music with explicit lyrics, (eff you by Lilly something) and I start singing and even crying and acting a fool while mopping the floors and cleaning the house- after all I am NEVER without the kids I might as well accomplish something plus I was stressed.

Two days later SO and TA go out somewhere when she returns she tells me I really messed up, now that I told TA that I said I wanted to hand him $10 and let him go out I was going to have a lot of trouble dealing with his "entitlement". She also brought up that she doesn't appreciate me reminding him of things she has done and said to him. Clearly, while they were out TA felt the need to tell her about my morning a few days earlier. He confessed to having told her about my singing and crying as well and that he only told her things "he felt were necessary".  WHAT? I mean this was the second time I've ever been home without the little kids, I took an opportunity to "dump" and he reports to her? HER? I literally questioned my own sanity in this moment.I stood there wondering if I was actually crazy I felt my peripheral vision fade out, I thought I was going to pass out. I was vulnerable. They are plotting against me, building a story of me being incompetent. SOMETHING! You've got to be kidding me. I cannot believe the TA is eating out of the palm of her hand like this.

She is playing perfect parent these days! She took the kids to the high school pool for a family swim. I didn't go- it was weird and awkward.I felt like an outsider and I couldn't shake it. SHe said things like some things just aren't important to Thea, I'm sorry about that, but we will go, and look back at me with that face. I cried when they got to the car, but unfortunately, TA was still by the door and heard me break down to which I later was informed he reported. I briefly spoke to my (30yo) daughter, paced, felt suicidal, paced, cried out to god, paced, looked around the vacant house and wanted to just be gone. My daughter called me back, sensing I wasn't ok. I wasn't going to answer because I feel like I was toxic, but I don't turn her away, so I answer the phone. As I begin to dump even though I was being completely resistant to it as my poor daughter does not deserve this. clarity crept in slowly or at least as much as to be expected. I literally felt completely confused and convoluted. She is working her ass off day in and day out to make crazy.

ANOTHER SCENARIO-  She will interfere with my consoling a child when he gets hurt. It's driving me insane. She interrupts me nonstop with every single thing unless she cant find words, and then she interrupts with "hey does anyone want (candy) and then says, oh nevermind I didn't realize you were having him pick up his toy.

Part of me wants to just disappear.If Im not here everyone would be better off- Bt I read about this, its the perfect storm isnt it? Im using some tactics I learned from watching some youtube videos- but if anyone has some tips PLEASE PLEASE SHARE!

If you understand please tell me you understand. I need to know. I am trying to figure out therapy options. I am in touch with an advocate to help me get an exit plan But I cant even call because TA is going to tell all! Im noteven safe in my own home. ONE MORE question0 how do you handle the cortisol surges all day long?

[Thea]

I need practical tips to counteract my spouse's manipulative behavior while I plan my exit strategy Please help.

Scenario- THIS IS AN EXAMPLE

The 18yo teenager is a pawn.SO is having him report anything that happens while she is not home. At times she has been covertly manipulative to him and done some things that I needed to interfere with. TA (teen) knows there are problems. Because she is not very nice to him anymore I would not have predicted that he would talk about things that I do. Apparently, she is using him to get all the info and allegations together that she can. He is also embellishing. One day SO was saying that TA needs more privileges, and I agreed and half-jokingly said I think he should go out, go hang around at the library, be social, give the kid $10 and set a curfew, after all he is an adult.

SO then tells TA that I said that he should get out of the house every morning and not return until 10pm. She is creating me as the bad guy, and SO told TA that she would never let that happen that she is the one who is protecting him. She has also begun to be the source of all of his wants, needs, and desires. (as well as the three other kids) SO is also expanding on things we agreed would be inappropriate for him due to his individual challenges. Things like giving him metal objects which he will fashion into other structures. She is outright defying me, telling him she is defying me, and using the tactic that I am the one who is so strict, unreasonably. She is an absolute liar. She is allowing him to do things that sabotage my relationship with him, set him up to self-destruct, and is blaming ME saying things like"you are going to make him a monster"

Ok, so she makes a dr appointment for the little kids, gets up and gets them dressed and going - I ask her what she is doing (I go to all appointments as of the last 2.5yrs) and she informs me they have the dentist-NEVER TOLD ME. so Im losing my mind angry, but I try not to feed the beast and just stay calm. She leaves and I go upstairs to TA tell that I absolutely never said I would throw him out all day! REDICULOUS! And while I acknowledge it was wrong of me I also brought up about 5 things that SO did or said to TA that was not ok, and then asked him if I have ever once done or said anything to him that was not ok? to which he answered no, and I said to him that I am sorry that I have failed him at times but he needs to know I have argued with SO over and over about her approach and her telling him that was a lie and wrong, think about it, and don't get suckered into it.

I proceed to go back downstairs, blast some music with explicit lyrics, (eff you by Lilly something) and I start singing and even crying and acting a fool while mopping the floors and cleaning the house- after all I am NEVER without the kids I might as well accomplish something plus I was stressed.

Two days later SO and TA go out somewhere when she returns she tells me I really messed up, now that I told TA that I said I wanted to hand him $10 and let him go out I was going to have a lot of trouble dealing with his "entitlement". She also brought up that she doesn't appreciate me reminding him of things she has done and said to him. Clearly, while they were out TA felt the need to tell her about my morning a few days earlier. He confessed to having told her about my singing and crying as well and that he only told her things "he felt were necessary".  WHAT? I mean this was the second time I've ever been home without the little kids, I took an opportunity to "dump" and he reports to her? HER? I literally questioned my own sanity in this moment.I stood there wondering if I was actually crazy I felt my peripheral vision fade out, I thought I was going to pass out. I was vulnerable. They are plotting against me, building a story of me being incompetent. SOMETHING! You've got to be kidding me. I cannot believe the TA is eating out of the palm of her hand like this.

She is playing perfect parent these days! She took the kids to the high school pool for a family swim. I didn't go- it was weird and awkward.I felt like an outsider and I couldn't shake it. SHe said things like some things just aren't important to Thea, I'm sorry about that, but we will go, and look back at me with that face. I cried when they got to the car, but unfortunately, TA was still by the door and heard me break down to which I later was informed he reported. I briefly spoke to my (30yo) daughter, paced, felt suicidal, paced, cried out to god, paced, looked around the vacant house and wanted to just be gone. My daughter called me back, sensing I wasn't ok. I wasn't going to answer because I feel like I was toxic, but I don't turn her away, so I answer the phone. As I begin to dump even though I was being completely resistant to it as my poor daughter does not deserve this. clarity crept in slowly or at least as much as to be expected. I literally felt completely confused and convoluted. She is working her ass off day in and day out to make crazy.

ANOTHER SCENARIO-  She will interfere with my consoling a child when he gets hurt. It's driving me insane. She interrupts me nonstop with every single thing unless she cant find words, and then she interrupts with "hey does anyone want (candy) and then says, oh nevermind I didn't realize you were having him pick up his toy.

Part of me wants to just disappear.If Im not here everyone would be better off- Bt I read about this, its the perfect storm isnt it? Im using some tactics I learned from watching some youtube videos- but if anyone has some tips PLEASE PLEASE SHARE!

If you understand please tell me you understand. I need to know. I am trying to figure out therapy options. I am in touch with an advocate to help me get an exit plan But I cant even call because TA is going to tell all! Im noteven safe in my own home. ONE MORE question0 how do you handle the cortisol surges all day long?

[Mutt]

Hi Thea,

ONE MORE question0 how do you handle the cortisol surges all day long?

I'll start here, exercise, do cardio and weight training do you work out? That will help reduce cortisol, cope with stress better, sleep better, feel more relaxed and boost your mood.

I'm in a similar situation as you right now so I understand the frustration when it comes to your pwBPD going through the kids and not looking after the best interest of the kids for the sake of validation. You probably already know that a pwBPD have little boundaries on themselves and have a poor understanding of the boundaries of others the kids might think that she's more felxible because of the lack of boundaries the kids need structure, routine, consistency and boundaries.



You have triangles, be aware and mindful of that, a pwBPD usually cast themselves as victim, rarely persecutor and sometimes rescuer when it comes to you you're cast in either the role of rescuer or persecutor. Your pwBPD is casting you as persecutor and the kids as rescuer, if you participate in the role that you're cast in it just keeps the cycle of blame going, what you want to do is to remove yourself from this cycle by not choosing sides, by being impartial, it's not easy to navigate but it's better than being stuck and participating with non constructive behaviours.

[Harri]

Hi Thea.  I am so sorry that this situation continues to be so difficult. 

I really like the info Mutt provided about the triangles. 

Thea, there is no way to prevent your spouse from acting the way she acts all you can do is protect yourself by reminding yourself of the drama triangle and doing your best to remain in the center.  Part of that will be remembering that your 18 year old is not to be trusted with any information.  Think about it this way; if you as an adult are having a hard time with the situation, how is an 18 year old going to manage in such difficult circumstances.  I don't think he is so much working together with your spouse (tho it may seem like it on the surface) but more that he is struggling to survive and cope the best way, albeit dysfunctionally, he can.  Do you think changing the way you look at his participation may help you to cope better? 

Depersonalizing your spouses behaviors is so important.  No matter how personal they may seem they have far more to do with her than anything to do with you.

Keep talking with us.