Well here I am back together after one breakfast

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

God damn her and god damn me ... .one breakfast started great just talking and explaining ourselves .Then her beautiful eyes and such ... .Jesus I’m a fool , a to be laughed at fool !  Anyways we didn’t say anything like hey were are back together ,but sitting in the back of my truck we was sitting in my arms .The we started kissing and just looking at each other,then the I love you’s From both.I am such an idiot ! Anyways she said to me , I’m gonna answer your letter and that way we don’t have to say anything.Maybe she has the strength to simply change her mind and say maybe we shouldn’t. God damn it ... .

[Shawnlam]

God damn her and god damn me ... .one breakfast started great just talking and explaining ourselves .Then her beautiful eyes and such ... .Jesus I’m a fool , a to be laughed at fool !  Anyways we didn’t say anything like hey were are back together ,but sitting in the back of my truck we was sitting in my arms .The we started kissing and just looking at each other,then the I love you’s From both.I am such an idiot ! Anyways she said to me , I’m gonna answer your letter and that way we don’t have to say anything.Maybe she has the strength to simply change her mind and say maybe we shouldn’t. God damn it ... .

[Mutt]

It sounds like you had fun Shawnlam. Good.

[Shawnlam]

I’m still nervous very nervous of what’s coming next

[NGU]

I don’t think I can resist her.

That's from your second post here.
Have to give you credit... .you called it.

Actually, I just logged in for a second and saw this new thread. Your brain is probably spinning, and I honestly feel for you. 

So this new post is on the Bettering Board, not the Detaching Board. I'm assuming then, that even though you're sort-of/kind-of kicking yourself, that you'd still like this to work out. And as you said, you're quite nervous about it.

Unfortunately, I didn't have a chance to give over all your posts to see what you've been talking about with the detaching crew. It can be a way different vibe than what you'd get here.

Let me just say that if you do start asking questions here about what you should say or do... .and some person like me were to fully go through your old posts and see you (for example) aggressively venting, and trashing her, and helping other people trash their own ex's... .It's all good. No worries. Everyone has your back no matter what you decide.

I say that on the off chance there's some misplaced guilt that crops up in your head, which can happen.

-ngu

[babyducks]

Shawnlam,

I saw in your other thread that onceremoved gave you the link for 'what does it take to be in a relationship'

https://bpdfamily.com/content/what-does-it-take-be-relationship

Have you looked at it yet?   

At the bottom it says this:

Understand Why: There are a many reasons to be in BP relationship or to try.  It's a deeply personal decision.  Sometimes the reasons are unhealthy- such as BPD/NPD relationships, BPD/Co-dependent relationship, etc.   It's important to understand your own emotional health and what motivates you to "stay in" and build a life that "evolves around" and has to "continually compensate for" the acts of a destructive person. Many professionals enter therapy when they are treating BPD to stay grounded.  It is a good idea for you too.

It's been my experience that no one falls into a relationship with a personality disordered person by accident.    There are indeed many reasons to be in a BP relationship.   

I knew my partner was Bipolar 1 comborid with BPD, compliant with medication and regular with therapy when I entered the relationship.   I knew that 90% of all bipolar relationships eventually fail.  I made the deliberate, concious and careful decision to enter the relationships because I valued her and our relationship.    And because I was niave.

Can I ask,   what do you hope to happen in your situaiton?

NGU made a good point.   The 'vibe' on Bettering is very different.   It's a given our partners are difficult.    Understanding that and dealing with the partical reality using the appropriate communications skills and relationship tools is the primary focus of this board.   

'ducks

[Shawnlam]

I’ll begin with my intentions today ,which were honestly not to rekindle the relationship (honest to god).After our breakfast though (actually during) emotions started running high.Not sure if it’s her manipulation or not but when we are together she always had a touchy feely approach  to me .It started after we finished eating,nothing big just hands,arms.She told me how angry she was I left her but also she understood why because of her impulsive actions and last minute changes was disrespectful to me.She just didn’t understand why I didn’t just have a conversation with her about it instead of me leaving.I explained I took disrespect hard and am not a door mat,so all in all we cane to terms on that.
 After breakfast we sat in the back of my pickup truck ,and talked like we used to a lot.One thing lead to another and we just kissed and I held her (no clue if that was more manipulation or genuine).
I didn’t want back with her as a relationship knowing it was futile but then again are we ? I don’t know ... .she said she would answer my letter I wrote her so I think we shall go from there.I just wanted at best to be friends (plutonic friends).

[Shawnlam]

Knowing now the inevitable end that most suffer (devalue/discard) I’ve set myself up for a rollercoaster ride.Im well aware now on BPD and I put myself in a bad place.I am much stronger and know how to not trigger her however I’m not always gonna be the trigger.The good news is we don’t live together,we have no kids together,frankly we have no strings attached if you know what I mean.I only have my heart to watch out for and I believe because I love her , and I know she may not love me (lots of conflicting content on BPD’s and them loving)... .I can stay safer now being informed.Instead of over reacting if she does something bad,I can just avoid and ignore for a day or to.Keep my boundaries,make them know but smart  not in a normal healthy person way but BPD way.Lots of unanticipated content coming for me

[babyducks]

when we are together she always had a touchy feely approach  to me .It started after we finished eating,nothing big just hands,arms.

Hi Shawnlam,

my partner always had a way of lightly touching me.   on the arm,  on the knee, on the shoulder.

It took me a while to figure out that because she can't self soothe she was using the touches to ground herself and soothe her emotions.    in a very real sense, the touches were about calming and connecting her.

Do you think there are steps you can take to protect yourself from the rollercoaster ride?    Have you read about JADE?   and validaton?    I will say when I got better with JADE and validation things became much calmer in my relationship.   We could go several months between dsyregulations.   And it was also a big help for us that I kept a seperate residence.    When things got too heated I stayed at my place in the city.

'ducks

[Shawnlam]

No I have not read up on jade or validation but I will right now!

[Shawnlam]

Is there a link to what JAdE is?

[babyducks]

At the top of this board , third entry down is Lessons.    take a wander through there.


JADE stand for Justify Argue Defend and Explain

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=118892.0

Justifying Arguing Defending and Explaining causes those circular arguments... .you know the ones... .which go on and on and never get resolved.

Emotional validation is the process of learning about, understanding and expressing acceptance of another person’s emotional experience. Emotional validation is distinguished from emotional invalidation, in which another person’s emotional experiences are rejected, ignored, or judged.

we talk about both of those ideas a lot here.

[Shawnlam]

Thanks !

[NGU]

Also for JADEing, click here and read everything above the horizontal bar graph.

It's a really good/quick summary. The first two sentences are why keeping your mouth shut is so difficult. Well, for me at least.
 

[NGU]

Knowing now the inevitable end that most suffer (devalue/discard) I’ve set myself up for a rollercoaster ride.Im well aware now on BPD and I put myself in a bad place.I am much stronger and know how to not trigger her however I’m not always gonna be the trigger.The good news is we don’t live together,we have no kids together,frankly we have no strings attached if you know what I mean.I only have my heart to watch out for and I believe because I love her , and I know she may not love me (lots of conflicting content on BPD’s and them loving)... .I can stay safer now being informed.Instead of over reacting if she does something bad,I can just avoid and ignore for a day or to.Keep my boundaries,make them know but smart  not in a normal healthy person way but BPD way.Lots of unanticipated content coming for me

Whether you decide on a platonic or full-blown relationship, you'll have a lot to juggle. This post you wrote shows you're already thinking. It's a nice summary, and dense.

What you've been saying, what babyducks is adding... .the scenarios and resulting self-introspective-y questions... .I've been through it already. Multiple times, with and without BPD involved. So I have a lot to say about what you're going through right now; too much, actually. Maybe I'll mull it over for a while, and if I can get everything pared down in my head, I'll type it out. 

-ngu

[Skip]

Knowing now the inevitable end that most suffer (devalue/discard) I’ve set myself up for a rollercoaster ride. Im well aware now on BPD and I put myself in a bad place. I am much stronger and know how to not trigger her however... .

Shawn',

This is the Bettering a Relationship or Reversing a Breakup board, so I will comment in that light... .

Your chasing your own tail a bit.

From this day forward, do not be the person you were in your prior relationship. This is a lot more important than worrying about generalities or  "inevitabilities".  Elevate your game. Study people skills - relationship skills - value building.

If you master these, this relationship will sort out just fine... .either you will connect and struggle through the trials and tribulations of a every relationship or you will see that it is not meant to be and no matter how cute.

You partner is not the Rock of Gibraltar... . she does not have great people skills, she is self centered, and she has made some bad choices in life.

You could use some work on understanding your own values, and on people and relationship skills and your attachment issues (many of us have them).

These two things skill sets combined for a, at times, tumultuous relationship. Was it all her? 80% her. 50% her? 30% her? How much did you tee this up? You probably don't know and that's likely what keeps you in.

So don't jump back into the relationship you had - it will end up in the same. Go back differently, more open, more patient, more discerning. Reconnect with who you are and want to be... .

[Shawnlam]

Any tips or suggestions I’ll take for sure ,it’s not gonna be easy for me I’m sure or anyone for that matter!

[Shawnlam]

I want to be involved in her life and I love her very much .She says she loves me I’m hoping she does for real (in a BPD way ) and not just telling me what I would like to hear to keep me interested.However I’m extremely cautious to want a relationship (real one).Ive read very few success stories trust me .I have been reading and training myself in everyday life to be a more wise mind and not logical or emotional,also to be more validating and empathic .I think it will eventually serve me everywhere in life not just with my gf or maybe gf.
 
The predicament I’m in is I left her twice so her trust in me is sub zero if you know what I mean.Im starting in the negatives

[AnuDay]

Shawn, please read everything you can on this site.
You have a lot of work to do in short order if this is going to work.  You are going to have to drop a little bit of ego, pride, and machismo.
Skip's advice on this thread is dead-on.  You have to be the "rock" in this relationship and to put it succinctly, I question your ability or motives to be that.

[Shawnlam]

I question my ability for sure , i was raised by a father who was military,I was military,I’m a VP in a company and a very proud person and usually I’m the strong one in family/friend/couple matters.I believe that’s what attracted my gf to me she saw me in my element at work (when we worked for the same company). I have A LOT of water to put in my wine but I’ve always always been able to adapt and learn quickly not to fail.  But my intentions are pure,I love the woman very much and I know she’s sick .I don’t think BPD’s are capable to flock to a strong man that compliments what they lack in ability hence why they don’t follow logic only emotion .I just think she took me because I showed relationship interest VS what most men take from her physical interest( yes she is exceptionally beautiful,no joke).

[NGU]

I don’t think BPD’s are capable to flock to a strong man that compliments what they lack in ability hence why they don’t follow logic only emotion .I just think she took me because I showed relationship interest VS what most men take from her physical interest

I understand you're going to need to be a type of mindreader when it comes to this relationship. And I understand that trying to figure out what attracted you to each other might be important right now. That said, you may need to catch yourself when you're mulling over theories like the one in that first sentence. In other words, if something starts with "I think," find a published source to back it with. If you can't find one, move on or you'll likely drive yourself batty and make mistakes.
 

I question my ability for sure , i was raised by a father who was military,I was military,I’m a VP in a company and a very proud person and usually I’m the strong one in family/friend/couple matters.

To successfully navigate this relationship, one of the things you will need to do is acquiesce. This does not jibe with what I believe your personality is, based off what you're describing.

There's a difference between pride and confidence. Confidence allows for a little more humility. And being humble is what is going to allow you to acquiesce, without feeling like you're losing your sense of self, self-worth and personal identity.

I'm not a proud person. But I'm confident in my abilities as an independent human. And still, keeping my mouth shut while she's steamrolling me with surreal accusations is practically impossible. Six and a half years now, and I'm barely doing it. 

Like Skip said, don't be the person you were before.

You and her in the back of your truck... .that was when it started. It's not "the new you," because that sounds like you're a completely different person. All you're doing is making the necessary tweaks while you're around someone you love.

You're a VP. Who's above you? CEO? OK, do you talk to him/her like you talk to your employees? Like you talk to your friends? Relatives? Hopefully you have filters for each. This is simply one more. Any push-back/discomfort you feel is purely psychological.

-ngu 

[babyducks]

Hi Shawn,

I am going to try to tag on to this idea of "don't be the person you were before".   

We were talking about JADE upstream.  Justify, Argue, Defend and Explain.    Here is an example that might help.     You walk in the door after work carrying 16 bags of groceries, your gym bag and the mail.   The cat makes a bolt for the door and escapes into the hallway.   Your girlfriend screeches at you, "OH MY GAWD I can't believe you just did that, you just let the cat out, why are you always so careless."

So to role play a couple possible answers:
Justify =  "Hey cut me a break here, can't you see my hands are full".
Argue = "Why the #$% are you screaming at me?   Why don't you just go get the cat?"
Defend = "I brought home 16 bags of groceries and this is the kind of reception I get?"
Explain = "Look sweetie, the cat is right here in the hallway, let me put the groceries down and I'll go get her."

All of those possible answers are pretty much guaranteed to raise the emotional temperature in the room because none of them respond to your girlfriends emotion.   She might be frightened.  She might be panicked.    She might feel you don't like the cat.   I can tell you one thing for sure.   If you don't address the emotion first you'll never get around to talking about the cat.

I would try some light validation and maybe a little SET (support, empathy, truth).   Maybe something like "it is scary when she bolts for the door like that isn't it?   I worry she's going to get lost or in trouble.   Come help me get her or with the groceries,   which is easier?"

So maybe you don't have a cat.   Okay.   I can pretty much guarantee at some point you are going to hear "I can't trust you, you broke up with me twice already".    That's why NGU say you're going to need to be a type of mind reader.   Figuring out what emotion is behind that statement will help you answer in a way that's not JADE and more validating.   If you were going to role play an answer to that here, what would you say?

FWIW, pwBPD do not operate from a script.   They are complex and complicated individuals that are the product of many events that shaped how they process life.   My Ex would never cheat and never self harmed by cutting.  Didn't make her any less BPD.   She expressed it differently.   There are people on this site who have been married for a dozen years or more with no break ups.   A lot of chaos in their relationship but no breakups.     There are similarities in the diagnosis but one size does not fit all.

'ducks

[Shawnlam]

I’ve been asking myself I million times how I will answer that inevitable comment of “you left me twice you don’t love me I can’t trust you”.Honestly even a sane person would have trouble buying the answer to that one... .I dread that day coming but I’ll figure it out.Wednesday we are going to dinner time will tell soon on how this adventure will unfold !

[NGU]

I’ve been asking myself I million times how I will answer that inevitable comment of “you left me twice you don’t love me I can’t trust you”.

What are some of the responses you've come up with?

Might be interesting to read input from the group regarding some of your ideas. Even one sentence for each would work.

[Shawnlam]

The only answer so far I’ve come up with is  : you are right in thinking that and I’m sorry I did that to you.Im working on my issues baby all I ask is give me the time to show you . That’s all I got

[babyducks]

Hmmmm,  how about ;
you are right I did leave twice.    And I understand trust is going to be  an issue for us.  What I am going to do to help that is work on my issues around __________ and I hope you will help us by ______________

[Shawnlam]

I always thought that the minute you would say to a BPD , and you can help us by __________ would imply I’m blaming her for something and therefore trigger her ?  I mean yes 98% of all the trust issues was her BS but I thought it was a big no no to even go down that path... .geez I have a lot to work on

[babyducks]

She is going to get triggered occasionally.    You don't want to walk on eggshells around that.  You don't want to encourage triggers either.

What do you think about "you can help us by agreeing to take a time out IF things get tense"

In your own words of course.

[Serenitywithin]

Is there a link to what JAdE is?

I cant find it either? I am in a relationship and need all the tools as well, I do have four children though and I am not always her trigger either.

[Shawnlam]

I’ll definitely be field testing a lot unless of course this doesn’t go further then I’ll be back to the failed relationship bored but much less defeated than the first time (now that I understand everything).

[babyducks]

I cant find it either? I am in a relationship and need all the tools as well, I do have four children though and I am not always her trigger either.

Links can be found in the bold green font in min and NGU's posts.