Trying to detach but having one of those what if days...

[Struggler123]

As many of you are aware, I have been very active on the forum. I thought that by talking more about it, it would help. At times, I do feel good about the way I handled my situation, and letting my ex go because I was not able to give her the commitment aka marriage that she wanted. But then some days, I feel and miss her. I want to believe her sometimes of the things she said. I remember her saying that she will always love me and my kindness was special to her. But then a part of me echo's her voice saying I'm happy with this new guy and you deserve better. I remember in the past, whenever she would break up with me, it would be because one of her dysregulated phases or her ex that she was with for 10 years, even though they would never get back together because he moved on. I want to believe that she was a good person, and that she really was pressured to marry someone else, but the truth is I was pressured by her for several months and I still asked for time, so I think thats a lie. I know that it would not have worked out one way or another, but sometimes telling myself that maybe she changed and the BPD went away, does make me feel guilty at times. A part of me just feels like if I had given into her demand of marriage, there would have been a never ending list that never ends, and my people pleasing personality, would have eventually broken down.  I suppose part of the problem is that, I never saw her extensive raged phases, because we never lived together. I would see the crying, the mean things she would say at times, but I thought it was just normal anger. I just don't get how someone can move on so easily, I remember getting closure, and she kept saying she really cares about me and to not let this affect me, and that someday I will look back on it and realize that it was not going to work out. I just don't understand how she can go from pressuring me for marriage for months, and then within a couple of days just act like that never happened, and its all set and done, and that I should accept everything and move on. This same person then throws a curve ball saying that, if I had fought for her and done something about it we would be together, at which point I was like if this is it, then I think its best that we shouldn't talk anymore, and I blocked her because I knew she wasn't going to respect my boundaries, but every now and then I feel whether I did the right thing. I'd really like an opinion from everyone, especially those that are married or were married, could I have fixed anything. Is marriage really the answer to all relationship problems?

[JustNeedToTalk]

I remember her saying that she will always love me and my kindness was special to her. But then a part of me echo's her voice saying I'm happy with this new guy and you deserve better.

I suppose part of the problem is that, I never saw her extensive raged phases, because we never lived together. I would see the crying, the mean things she would say at times, but I thought it was just normal anger.

Hi Struggler,

The similarities I read on this forum are outstanding, my ex never pushed me to marriage but he did push me to commit, he actually said early on that dating me was like "walking on eggshells" (they know what they are saying).  He said he felt I was always going to leave him like every date was a test.  That was never the case.

However, I had the kindness, I will always love you, you deserve better quote... .said to me a million times, written to me.  It's just words, them trying justify their cruel actions.  He was done with me when he said that.  He'd already painted me black, he was mirroring me, mirroring my broken heart, with his false words and tears, pretending to be remorseful.  As the next day he hated me, I was BLACK.

I never saw the rages either... .I saw the signs looking back now as he would run and hide and lock himself away and then one or two days later beg my forgiveness.

Stay strong, nothing and I mean nothing could have changed for you.  This is about them not you.

They love us, they love us too much.  This is why they hurt us so much.  They have to hurt us in order to believe in themselves that they done the right thing.  Acceptance for them is too painful.

JNTT x

[Struggler123]

Hi Struggler,

The similarities I read on this forum are outstanding, my ex never pushed me to marriage but he did push me to commit, he actually said early on that dating me was like "walking on eggshells" (they know what they are saying).  He said he felt I was always going to leave him like every date was a test.  That was never the case.

However, I had the kindness, I will always love you, you deserve better quote... .said to me a million times, written to me.  It's just words, them trying justify their cruel actions.  He was done with me when he said that.  He'd already painted me black, he was mirroring me, mirroring my broken heart, with his false words and tears, pretending to be remorseful.  As the next day he hated me, I was BLACK.

I never saw the rages either... .I saw the signs looking back now as he would run and hide and lock himself away and then one or two days later beg my forgiveness.

Stay strong, nothing and I mean nothing could have changed for you.  This is about them not you.

They love us, they love us too much.  This is why they hurt us so much.  They have to hurt us in order to believe in themselves that they done the right thing.  Acceptance for them is too painful.

JNTT x

It's really unfortunate, because you can give and give and still feel so empty like them. For the first time, I didn't feel like I had a solution to her. I mean either way, marriage or no marriage, I was the one being affected. I would fulfill every single one of her demands, I just couldn't commit so easily, I had to make my career and be my own man. I really thought that she would support me through that, but her idea was to make a commitment, and without it, it means nothing. Funny part is 4 days before this incident, she was crying telling me and asking me what are we, whether we are friends, or dating, and I was like I don't know what to tell you, because everytime I come close to you, you push me away, I need time to figure out what to tell you, and she cried and made me feel horrible. Then, I look back and 4 days later, she moved on, just like that, everything she said was all just a way for her to get what she wanted.

[Cromwell]

Hi Struggler,

The similarities I read on this forum are outstanding, my ex never pushed me to marriage but he did push me to commit, he actually said early on that dating me was like "walking on eggshells" (they know what they are saying).  He said he felt I was always going to leave him like every date was a test.  That was never the case.

However, I had the kindness, I will always love you, you deserve better quote... .said to me a million times, written to me.  It's just words, them trying justify their cruel actions.  He was done with me when he said that.  He'd already painted me black, he was mirroring me, mirroring my broken heart, with his false words and tears, pretending to be remorseful.  As the next day he hated me, I was BLACK.

I never saw the rages either... .I saw the signs looking back now as he would run and hide and lock himself away and then one or two days later beg my forgiveness.

Stay strong, nothing and I mean nothing could have changed for you.  This is about them not you.

They love us, they love us too much.  This is why they hurt us so much.  They have to hurt us in order to believe in themselves that they done the right thing.  Acceptance for them is too painful[/glow].[/i]

JNTT x

What do you mean by this, is it ok to clarify or explain. its late and im kinda tired, so maybe my fault. thanks.

[once removed]

Struggler, remove BPD from the equation for a moment.

this person (your ex) had different expectations, a higher need for commitment and security than you did. sometimes the difference is workable (most partners have different levels of sex drive, for example, but meet each others needs) and sometimes it isnt.

i suspect what you are seeing now is a culmination of the fact that she increasingly, over time, realized the two of you were not on the same page in terms of commitment/marriage. so at first she pushed harder and harder (and she resents you for some of that, possibly because she saw it as you "not caring" enough, and/or rejecting her) and then slowly but surely, she began to let it go, and let the relationship go, even if she didnt realize she was doing that at the time.

the ending of my relationship felt very sudden, and the way my ex behaved flabbergasted me at the time, but it made a lot more sense once i got my mind around the idea that her and i were just not on the same page, and at very different places.

now she has her plate very full with this engagement. i dont know if thats to say she has grieved completely, or delayed some of it, whether or not she will experience any regrets or what ifs herself later, thats really anyones guess, but it is quite likely what is occupying her, which is understandably painful for you.

the two of you ended gracefully and with closure. one day, maybe years from now, i suspect you will be grateful for that aspect.

[Struggler123]

Struggler, remove BPD from the equation for a moment.

this person (your ex) had different expectations, a higher need for commitment and security than you did. sometimes the difference is workable (most partners have different levels of sex drive, for example, but meet each others needs) and sometimes it isnt.

i suspect what you are seeing now is a culmination of the fact that she increasingly, over time, realized the two of you were not on the same page in terms of commitment/marriage. so at first she pushed harder and harder (and she resents you for some of that, possibly because she saw it as you "not caring" enough, and/or rejecting her) and then slowly but surely, she began to let it go, and let the relationship go, even if she didnt realize she was doing that at the time.

the ending of my relationship felt very sudden, and the way my ex behaved flabbergasted me at the time, but it made a lot more sense once i got my mind around the idea that her and i were just not on the same page, and at very different places.

now she has her plate very full with this engagement. i dont know if thats to say she has grieved completely, or delayed some of it, whether or not she will experience any regrets or what ifs herself later, thats really anyones guess, but it is quite likely what is occupying her, which is understandably painful for you.

the two of you ended gracefully and with closure. one day, maybe years from now, i suspect you will be grateful for that aspect.

I really respect the fact that you put it into terms like that. Whether BPD had something to do with it or not, just a general overview in terms of perspectives does make sense. I suppose the problem is, I really thought I could we could meet somewhere halfway and that was never gonna happen. A part of me knows that she was speaking to the other guy, for at least a month or two and when she felt comfortable with him, it was time for her to let me go. I tell myself that it was for the best, but a part of me really wants to believe that, we really could have made it work. I apologize if this sounds stupid, but a normal relationship, no girl would want marriage after spending 10 months long distance and 4 weeks together. I think marriage is a very strong bond, and takes more time but I suppose it was a difference in opinion.

[Harley Quinn]

Hi Struggler,

We all go through the what ifs and when we think about these things it's helpful to remind ourselves of the facts. 

I know that it would not have worked out one way or another, but sometimes telling myself that maybe she changed and the BPD went away, does make me feel guilty at times.

BPD does not go away.  Just the behaviour of going elsewhere to get her needs met indicates no reason to suspect a change.  Try not to heap guilt on yourself when you are already going through so many emotions.  Grief is hard enough without us adding to our suffering.  It's important that whilst you're thinking things through you are clear about what it is that you're either moving towards or away from. 

We have an article about what it takes to be in a relationship with a BPD sufferer and it explains what emotional investment and effort is required from a partner.  It's the end paragraph of this article which spoke to me when I first read it.  I was in my r/s at the time.

There are many reasons to be in BP relationship or to try.  It's a deeply personal decision.  Sometimes the reasons are unhealthy- such as BPD/NPD relationships, BPD/Co-dependent relationship, etc.   It's important to understand your own emotional health and what motivates you to "stay in" and build a life that "evolves around" and has to "continually compensate for" the acts of a destructive person. Many professionals enter therapy when they are treating BPD to stay grounded.  It is a good idea for you too.

That's the reality we don't necessarily want to hear when we're missing our ex and remembering how they made us feel when things were good.  I know it's hard but give yourself permission to work through the feelings and you will find that you feel differently as the time increases.

Love and light x

[Struggler123]

Hi Struggler,

We all go through the what ifs and when we think about these things it's helpful to remind ourselves of the facts. 

BPD does not go away.  Just the behaviour of going elsewhere to get her needs met indicates no reason to suspect a change.  Try not to heap guilt on yourself when you are already going through so many emotions.  Grief is hard enough without us adding to our suffering.  It's important that whilst you're thinking things through you are clear about what it is that you're either moving towards or away from. 

We have an article about what it takes to be in a relationship with a BPD sufferer and it explains what emotional investment and effort is required from a partner.  It's the end paragraph of this article which spoke to me when I first read it.  I was in my r/s at the time.

There are many reasons to be in BP relationship or to try.  It's a deeply personal decision.  Sometimes the reasons are unhealthy- such as BPD/NPD relationships, BPD/Co-dependent relationship, etc.   It's important to understand your own emotional health and what motivates you to "stay in" and build a life that "evolves around" and has to "continually compensate for" the acts of a destructive person. Many professionals enter therapy when they are treating BPD to stay grounded.  It is a good idea for you too.

That's the reality we don't necessarily want to hear when we're missing our ex and remembering how they made us feel when things were good.  I know it's hard but give yourself permission to work through the feelings and you will find that you feel differently as the time increases.

Love and light x

Thank you so much for putting light on that, your right. I feel like for me writing thats therapy for me. I can control my urges and even impulse per to say, but the main thing im trying to uncover is how I became so invested when at times I was the one telling her to be with someone else since I cant get marry her and when she did, i’m feeling bad for myself, when I know that I could get back with her if I tell her I wanted to marry her but thats where my conscious kicks in and tells me do i really want to spend the rest of my life like I did the past few months waking up at her time, calling her, answering texts 24/7. Seeing her everyday, just to make sure and tell her im not going anywhere, the reassurances. And thats what kind of tells me I did the right thing, but is it annoying yes. Because I have to realize that im not a xanax and nor am I a hero. I’m just a nice guy, who looks at the best in everyone. I still look at her as the best time I had, but thats the thing girlfriends you can tolerate but in a marriage you cant tolerate all the possessiveness and the blame

[once removed]

I really respect the fact that you put it into terms like that. Whether BPD had something to do with it or not, just a general overview in terms of perspectives does make sense.

everything about BPD is stuff we all (or at least many people) do, just more extreme. where there are BPD traits, there is a BPD component to the relationship for sure, but a great deal of what we experienced were more extreme versions of pretty normal or at least common relationship problems, and human nature, and some of it was pathological, some of it wasnt. for example, it is "BPDish" to push early on for commitment/marriage, and certainly your ex has done this at least twice that we know of, but plenty of people who are insecure, or have an insecure attachment style, or people that just fall heavy fast and hard do this. relationships ending over it is commonplace. its easy to lose sight of this and sort out when we are learning about BPD, it was for me.

likely, your perspective ie "a part of me really wants to believe we could make it work" was similar to hers, but you both moved through it at different stages, and you were the one that was blindsided while you still wanted to make it work. thats tough.

there was a lot i couldnt tolerate either. but i did, in a similar way, believing we could make it work, until the rug was pulled out from under me. sometimes these differences are big enough that they force an ending even if we arent ready for it, and it really hurts. the silver lining is we can learn to spot a terminal relationship when we are in one, in the future, and make the often difficult decisions.

[Struggler123]

everything about BPD is stuff we all (or at least many people) do, just more extreme. where there are BPD traits, there is a BPD component to the relationship for sure, but a great deal of what we experienced were more extreme versions of pretty normal or at least common relationship problems, and human nature, and some of it was pathological, some of it wasnt. for example, it is "BPDish" to push early on for commitment/marriage, and certainly your ex has done this at least twice that we know of, but plenty of people who are insecure, or have an insecure attachment style, or people that just fall heavy fast and hard do this. relationships ending over it is commonplace. its easy to lose sight of this and sort out when we are learning about BPD, it was for me.

likely, your perspective ie "a part of me really wants to believe we could make it work" was similar to hers, but you both moved through it at different stages, and you were the one that was blindsided while you still wanted to make it work. thats tough.

there was a lot i couldnt tolerate either. but i did, in a similar way, believing we could make it work, until the rug was pulled out from under me. sometimes these differences are big enough that they force an ending even if we arent ready for it, and it really hurts. the silver lining is we can learn to spot a terminal relationship when we are in one, in the future, and make the often difficult decisions.

To be honest when I posted this thread, I was blaming myself. I thought that when we broke up several times, I put a wall up, we were doing everything that we would do just without the labe of a relationship. She kept asking me what we are and I couldn’t say anything. I suppose thats what I feel guilty about because I felt like had I told her that your my girlfriend or something maybe things would have been different. Then another part of tells me after id tell her she was my girlfriend she would be like so when are we getting married at which point I would be back to square one.  I spoke to friends, relatives and everyone told me that no matter what I would have done it wouldnt have worked because her demands would have kept increasing and your in no position to take any more stress as your a young guy and you have a lot on your plate as it is, being in one of the most competitive fields. Make your career and things will fall into place. Thoughts? I guess I just want to stop blaming myself and in a way I do feel like I rejected her.

[once removed]

i think that with regard to you not being ready to get married, there is no "blame". as ive said, thats a very serious commitment, one we should not make because we are pressured into it.

where this gets tough is that for a while, neither of you saw the writing on the wall; you both wanted to stay, and make it work, so you both continued to invest in something not sustainable.

you saw it to an extent when you put that wall up. i did a similar thing. my ex crossed major lines, and instead of breaking up with her, i withdrew. she saw that, and she withdrew as well, i just didnt know it, and by the time i came around, she had at least partially grieved the relationship and started to move on.

so, you did reject her in a sense. thats life. its a tough part of life; i hate being in a place where i have to reject someone. but you didnt completely reject her. you still wanted a relationship on your terms, and so did she. you both stuck it out until the differences came to a head and the ending was forced. even though you were not all in, you werent ready for it to end either. thats why it hurts, thats why there are a lot of what ifs and doubts, and thats what youre grieving now - the part she has at least partially done.

nowhere in that is "blame" on either side. there is a lesson to be learned for you in terms of reading the writing on the wall, not winging it, spotting significant and long term incompatibilities, where/when a relationship becomes unsustainable and doing the hard thing, but thats really not about blame.

in the end, although neither of you completely wanted it/werent ready for it, you both did the kind, compassionate, and healthy thing, acknowledged the "irreconcilable differences", gave each other closure and wished each other the best. youre grieving it now and theres healing to be done. youll get there, and eventually youll feel resolved that although you werent ready, the relationship wasnt sustainable, and ended for the best, for both of you, and on a positive note. youll be grateful for that, and eventually, i suspect youll be able to cherish the good times without the pain attached.

[Struggler123]

i think that with regard to you not being ready to get married, there is no "blame". as ive said, thats a very serious commitment, one we should not make because we are pressured into it.

where this gets tough is that for a while, neither of you saw the writing on the wall; you both wanted to stay, and make it work, so you both continued to invest in something not sustainable.

you saw it to an extent when you put that wall up. i did a similar thing. my ex crossed major lines, and instead of breaking up with her, i withdrew. she saw that, and she withdrew as well, i just didnt know it, and by the time i came around, she had at least partially grieved the relationship and started to move on.

so, you did reject her in a sense. thats life. its a tough part of life; i hate being in a place where i have to reject someone. but you didnt completely reject her. you still wanted a relationship on your terms, and so did she. you both stuck it out until the differences came to a head and the ending was forced. even though you were not all in, you werent ready for it to end either. thats why it hurts, thats why there are a lot of what ifs and doubts, and thats what youre grieving now - the part she has at least partially done.

nowhere in that is "blame" on either side. there is a lesson to be learned for you in terms of reading the writing on the wall, not winging it, spotting significant and long term incompatibilities, where/when a relationship becomes unsustainable and doing the hard thing, but thats really not about blame.

in the end, although neither of you completely wanted it/werent ready for it, you both did the kind, compassionate, and healthy thing, acknowledged the "irreconcilable differences", gave each other closure and wished each other the best. youre grieving it now and theres healing to be done. youll get there, and eventually youll feel resolved that although you werent ready, the relationship wasnt sustainable, and ended for the best, for both of you, and on a positive note. youll be grateful for that, and eventually, i suspect youll be able to cherish the good times without the pain attached.

Honestly, I’ve been trying to figure out why it was bothering me. I mean being honest, she wasn’t the hottest girl, but I think getting so much attention and actually being the first one someone calls just to talk to is a nice feeling. The idea of closure was on my part because she kept calling and texting and I felt like she wasn’t understanding the ideas of boundaries. Its weird because at one point I remember her saying she doesn’t want be with the new guy and he deserves better, and then 24 hours later, she was giving me the same speech, when I told her I didn’t want to be friends. I think that after I blocked her, now I don’t think she will ever be back and as hard as it is to accept that, I think if I have any self-respect left in me, I won’t allow her to. I think part of the problem is we keep tabs on people, and for what? It doesn’t really change the outcome. I think part of the problem is that, I know if I were to ask her to marry me, she probably would say yes, but that speaks a lot about my character, and my boundaries. Will I say yes to every demand that she puts in front of me, because then its threats.  As for rejection, I think that before I could place that on her fully, she decided to just move on to the next cause it was an easier option. I always think that telling someone lets be friends is a nice way to say like thanks for letting me use you, but now i’ll call you if I need something. I can be angry, I can be sad but at the end of the day shes done this break up thing everytime saying you deserve better and then when she realizes like i made a mistake its back to square one, and I don’t know how I feel about that. And I think thats something I have to make amends with, whether if she returns or not, what will I do? Thoughts?