Her values and some of her actions didn't match up

[Shawnlam]

I’m very curious to know if a lot of you experienced your exBPD partners  saying one thing but doing the opposite?Not so much a lie as it is an attempt at them trying to convince you of the opposite they usually do? I have a few examples from my experience and I always wondered why they would waste their time doing this effort when literally the same day or week she’s tell me a story that proved the opposite? Examples:

1: I’d never touch a married man I wouldn’t want a woman knocking at my door in anger . Fact: she flirted and slept with married men or taken men all the time
2: I’m a one man woman Fact: she cheated on all her bf’s
3: I’ll never do anything to hurt you on purpose Fact: she did it all the time
4: My ex bf xyz was such a cheap guy Fact: she told me two days later He pampered her and paid for everything
5: I haven’t smoked pot since I was with <name> and it was only once Fact: her called smelled of pot and she said she smokes all the time
6: I never chase people once they are gone Fact: she texted me after I broke with her the first time
 
And I could keep typing all day... .anyone else have these issue ?

[Wicker Man]

"People with BPD often have not developed a clear and coherent sense of self they sometimes experience major swings in such basic aspects of identity as their values, loyalties, and career choices. They cannot bear to be alone, have fears of abandonment, demand attention, and experience chronic feelings of depression and emptiness."

This is from DSM 5.

I am not a professional, but I guessed the lying I experienced was a result of her lacking a sense of self.  When she was with me she became more like me, when she was with other people I am guessing she tended to be more like them.

If I were you I would not spend so much time looking for the reasoning behind her behavior, but remember she has these behaviors.  It helps me to look at our relationship through the lens of behaviorism not so much psychoanalytically  -Why does she do these thing?  Who cares she does.  The answer is she likely suffers from BPD.  Spend your energy thinking 'Is this the way I want to spend my life?'

You can lead a horse to water -it isn't your fault if the horse drowns or dies from dehydration.  I am guessing you tried your best in the relationship -God knows I did.  I found myself spending an inordinate amount of time trying to save her from herself.

When our relationship ended the balance of power was still on my side.  I was finishing up my divorce and had not yet moved to her country.  She was abusive and raging.  I can not imagine what my life might have been like if I had moved, bought her family a house and was trapped -in other words if I had let the balance of power swing completely over to her. 

As I mentioned to you in a previous post -have a look at the people on this board who are divorcing with children involved.  Have a look at the people who are afraid of their spouses, have a look at discussions about restraining orders, stalking, phone tapping, smear campaigns and ask yourself -is this the life I want?

Perhaps have a look at:

Is It Love or Is It Addiction: The book that changed the way we think about romance and intimacy (Schaeffer)


Wicker Man

[lighthouse9]

Hey Shawn,

I'm curious - what are YOUR values? Who is Shawn, besides the man who has learned so much recently about BPD?

It seems like you're getting much better at identifying her behavior and considering how it affects you. That's a great step. But what about you? At what point do you stop reacting to her and lead the way to the type of relationship you want, whether she follows or not?

Are you ok with infidelity for yourself? Would you ever cross that line? Have you? I have - in a pretty benign way, but it still made me feel awful and that person didn't deserve it, even if I was done with the relationship in my head.

Would you ever court a married woman? What if she was really unhappy? What if she started it and told you it was ok?

How do you expect to divide up expenses in a relationship?

Are recreational drugs something you are ok with for yourself? Are they something you'll tolerate from a partner? Remember - you can't change someone, but you can choose whether to let them into your life or not.

I think you see where I'm going with this Shawn. WickerMan is absolutely right about how people with BPD don't have a clear and coherent sense of self. It means they might constantly change who they are, what they like, what they value, etc. Does that make them bad people? Not necessarily - but you have the choice of whether or not you want to put up with it or not. Do her contradictions matter to you? If so, why? Likely, they're countering some value of yours that you might end up turning into a boundary with some practice.

Wishing you the best man, keep doing the good work and keep working towards calm and clear Shawn - we've all seen it here.

[Shawnlam]

Well lighthouse there really isn’t a relationship anymore so now I’m learning and healing she’s gone .My values ... .I have plenty .Her smoking pot etc aren’t an issue neither really is what she did before me .If married men slept with her that’s her business ,cheating goes against my beliefs for sure especially when done against me.I never cheated or flirted when in a relationship myself but that’s just me.Honestly what she did with her past is her stuff,it was the constant saying the opposite then days later tell you a story that went against it was my curiosity.,,.if others saw the same pattern

[Skip]

"People with BPD often have not developed a clear and coherent sense of self they sometimes experience major swings in such basic aspects of identity as their values, loyalties, and career choices. They cannot bear to be alone, have fears of abandonment, demand attention, and experience chronic feelings of depression and emptiness."

This is from DSM 5. I am not a professional

This is not in the DSM.    Here is the DSM
https://bpdfamily.com/content/borderline-personality-disorder

I couldn't find a source for that quote - some of the phrases seem to come from an undergrad students course notes from a University of Toronto class.

Just a fact check... .and it doesn't negate your message of "Spend your energy thinking 'Is this the way I want to spend my life?'"

[lighthouse9]

Hey Shawn,

I hear you - my wife was totally inconsistent with what she said and with her values. It didn't just drive me nuts, it actually felt violating at times.

I really noticed it after she did some nasty things, like the cheating, or when she was drunk, but there were subtle signs of it the relationship.

For example, her voice changed as did her interests when she would talk to certain friends or family on the phone. Now, I get it, we all can be a bit chameleon like at times. I have friends for different interests and I'm not always as "open" with family members. But, the people I'm closest to get a very authentic version of me, and if you put them in a room and asked them to describe my values they would probably all say the same things.

Sometimes I'd hear her talking to people that I thought she was closest to and she sounded like a completely different person than who she was with me. It alarmed me, because who was getting the real her and who was she lying to? Was I not letting her express herself in the marriage and did she feel like she couldn't be interested in certain things around me?

Also - these people didn't even try to get to know me and really didn't let me get to know them. Everything was superficial. It was maybe a yellow flag at first in our relationship, but as time went on and nothing changed, it was definitely a red flag. And, guess who she ran to when she wanted to tell a really inaccurate version of why we broke up? These folks.

When I step back, I can see that there aren't many people with strong identities and good values that stick around in her life. She has one friend like this, but she holds him at arms length and I felt like she pulled away from him when he got into a really healthy long term relationship. One of her newest favorite person to be around would say things to me like "I don't think we have any control over our behavior in life and our lives are predestined, so basically I'm going to do whatever I want because that's what I'm supposed to do." He drove me nuts, but she was obsessed with him and thought he was so awesome.

I don't get it Shawn - except to say that it's the personality disorder, right? Without a strong sense of self, there's no real way to build consistency. My wife would say some things she really believed in, but I watched her violate those beliefs in her behavior many times. I know it screwed her up and I have compassion for that, but it definitely kept me on my toes way too much. I guess that's why I asked you about your values, because I learned that I have to have an even stronger sense of self if I expect to have any contact with her - or even if I expect to get over this relationship without blaming myself for everything.

[Shawnlam]

Almost fell out of my chair when I read your post lighthouse ... .Jesus.I think your wife is a clone of my exGF.Keeping me away from her key people in life (not many trust me) , just so when we broke up she can play the victim... .it’s like they know ahead of time what’s gonna happen.I also had to deal with a real piece of s$$t guy friend who she idealizes and I’m pretty sure he caused the end of out relationship last Saturday (he was in town).Anyways thanks for the post made me feel better about my crappy life right now.

[lighthouse9]

hahah I'm glad you didn't fall out of your chair Shawn, we've been hurt enough.

I called her on the whole keeping me from people thing at the end. She said "I guess they only knew you through me and I didn't always do a good job of representing you." She even said something about it being important to her that she "rescue my reputation" from people. Honestly, I'm a pretty straight arrow and what you see is what you get. I'm an open person and I'm not afraid to admit when I'm wrong or did harm and make amends for it. I can't even imagine what kind of nonsense she told people... .actually, I can, but dwelling on it doesn't help me. As she said herself "maybe I know what buttons to push better than anyone."

Yeah, she had a POS guy friend (ex bf) too who she went back and forth from idealizing and devaluing. I knew there was trouble when he came back into her life after a breakup and they started talking often. I was upset at first, but now I kind of see him as the model of what not to be with her. I have no interest in following her around for the rest of my life like a puppy. He was even in our wedding, and she assured me he had moved on. He spent the wedding telling people that she was the one that got away and even said something similar to me at the end of the night.

Shawn, I could have spent my every waking moment trying to protect our marriage from trouble. When I started to let go of my assumed need to patrol the boundaries, look what happened.

[Shawnlam]

I’m gonna have a gin in your honor tonight lighthouse because 1: you managed to make it to marriage with her 2: you still got hurt just too much so cheers sir , it’s gonna be a heavy booze night ... .I miss my exGF today and I just don’t know why.Have a goodnight