Grieving many years later

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Hey guys, in attempt to come to an end in my own grief, or as close as possible... .going to make a post.  Not sure tho where I am headed.  I just know that discussing my own grief in anothers thread feels impolite.  Not even really sure I have lots of grief to discuss so gonna just jump in and see what is made of it... .

My most recent love and I broke up February?  We only dated three months however, in the span of those three months... .we both feel for each other rather strongly and deeply.

(I would like to keep “labels” or “dysfunction/disorder” out of this discussion as much as possible as I view them as an escape from taking responsibility in many ways.  ... .Or rather... .I’ll choose to speak of them in only pragmatic ways... .not blame shifting ways... .if possible)

So... .I have OSDD (think c-PTSD on crack freeballing some dissociation... .just kidding :P) and he has bipolar. (If that combo doesn’t make sense... .no worries... .we actually are pretty neat people whom most random folks wouldn’t spot the diagnosis anyways... .  The bipolar could be easier to spot but his version just looked like someone with a mild level of energy when the rest of us come home and veg after work... .he went fishing, to the gym, etc... .he is just active as heck in life.). The point of that is... . Believe it or not... .our “disorders” felt like they vanished mostly when we were together.  Or... .our issues collided in a most magnificent way.  We both felt this amazing bond where we equally felt more understood and more comfortable with another person than we ever have.  He happened to be a therapist... . (this was a coincidence... .he was never MY therapist) has great boundaries and I happen to really do exceptionally well with mixing with him... .as he did with me.

As things were ending... .we were both seemingly equally devastated and also still very much in love.  We tried being friends... .we both faded that away in a loving but also excruciating way of slow mutual fade and longing.

My point... .
Grieving this loss... .hit me hard!  I have never loved anyone in such a way since understanding my own current diagnosis of dissociative ways.  I am in the throws of some intensive therapeutic work and part of my agreement with my Selfs is that... .my focus would need to be on Me... .not a man.  So our love and falling in love... .happened quite unintentionally.

Somehow... .
This led me to lots of grief.  This man felt perfect to me in many ways.  Yet... .there was no pragmatic way for us to be together.  Our family situations could never be combined, nor could our religious differences.  We both knew this... .hence why we agreed to part.  It was tremendously sad.

Not sure now where I am going with this... .
Last week... .it feels like my grief and my grieving of this relationship finally “bottomed out” as I felt within me a final settling of acceptance towards him and his new gal.  Hard stuff for me... .but... .I accept his new relationship... .best I can... .and have effectively backed way way way way off... .to uphold my own values.  (Even tho he was inviting and leaving small door open to him). This was really f^*$#@ing rough!  ... .because I still know we love each other!

Anywho... .
Feel free to dissect or prod wherever may seem helpful.  

I feel like also mentioning... .
When I did finally feel myself bottom out in my grief and come to Acceptance... .what then happened was interesting... .my mind began to wander to my ex with NPD like traits... ... ..that led me here.  I began reprocessing some events of that relationship and adding them into my understanding.  How things ended and evolved with him... .still baffle me greatly.  I also have recently cried to a friend over him as well... .or rather... .over some of my misplaced attachment to him.

Hopefully I make sense and can be productive here.
TIA :hi

Oh... .
So in summary... .
This last most recent love... .with the man with bipolar... .lets call him M.  It feels my attachment to him was with integrated and open eyes.  I mean... .I was able to weed out the fantasy love and grieve what we were and the realit of the loss.

Yet... .then I was left being thrown mentally to the ex with NPD traits... .who I will call E... .  and lots of my grief surrounding him has some magical attachment issues I think. 

Maybe I am bottomed out tho and there may not be more work to be done... .idk.  Maybe what I am left with is ok... .idk...
Just throwing this all out here to see what may surface.

Thanks again

[Sunfl0wer]

Hey guys, in attempt to come to an end in my own grief, or as close as possible... .going to make a post.  Not sure tho where I am headed.  I just know that discussing my own grief in anothers thread feels impolite.  Not even really sure I have lots of grief to discuss so gonna just jump in and see what is made of it... .

My most recent love and I broke up February?  We only dated three months however, in the span of those three months... .we both feel for each other rather strongly and deeply.

(I would like to keep “labels” or “dysfunction/disorder” out of this discussion as much as possible as I view them as an escape from taking responsibility in many ways.  ... .Or rather... .I’ll choose to speak of them in only pragmatic ways... .not blame shifting ways... .if possible)

So... .I have OSDD (think c-PTSD on crack freeballing some dissociation... .just kidding :P) and he has bipolar. (If that combo doesn’t make sense... .no worries... .we actually are pretty neat people whom most random folks wouldn’t spot the diagnosis anyways... .  The bipolar could be easier to spot but his version just looked like someone with a mild level of energy when the rest of us come home and veg after work... .he went fishing, to the gym, etc... .he is just active as heck in life.). The point of that is... . Believe it or not... .our “disorders” felt like they vanished mostly when we were together.  Or... .our issues collided in a most magnificent way.  We both felt this amazing bond where we equally felt more understood and more comfortable with another person than we ever have.  He happened to be a therapist... . (this was a coincidence... .he was never MY therapist) has great boundaries and I happen to really do exceptionally well with mixing with him... .as he did with me.

As things were ending... .we were both seemingly equally devastated and also still very much in love.  We tried being friends... .we both faded that away in a loving but also excruciating way of slow mutual fade and longing.

My point... .
Grieving this loss... .hit me hard!  I have never loved anyone in such a way since understanding my own current diagnosis of dissociative ways.  I am in the throws of some intensive therapeutic work and part of my agreement with my Selfs is that... .my focus would need to be on Me... .not a man.  So our love and falling in love... .happened quite unintentionally.

Somehow... .
This led me to lots of grief.  This man felt perfect to me in many ways.  Yet... .there was no pragmatic way for us to be together.  Our family situations could never be combined, nor could our religious differences.  We both knew this... .hence why we agreed to part.  It was tremendously sad.

Not sure now where I am going with this... .
Last week... .it feels like my grief and my grieving of this relationship finally “bottomed out” as I felt within me a final settling of acceptance towards him and his new gal.  Hard stuff for me... .but... .I accept his new relationship... .best I can... .and have effectively backed way way way way off... .to uphold my own values.  (Even tho he was inviting and leaving small door open to him). This was really f^*$#@ing rough!  ... .because I still know we love each other!

Anywho... .
Feel free to dissect or prod wherever may seem helpful.  

I feel like also mentioning... .
When I did finally feel myself bottom out in my grief and come to Acceptance... .what then happened was interesting... .my mind began to wander to my ex with NPD like traits... ... ..that led me here.  I began reprocessing some events of that relationship and adding them into my understanding.  How things ended and evolved with him... .still baffle me greatly.  I also have recently cried to a friend over him as well... .or rather... .over some of my misplaced attachment to him.

Hopefully I make sense and can be productive here.
TIA :hi

Oh... .
So in summary... .
This last most recent love... .with the man with bipolar... .lets call him M.  It feels my attachment to him was with integrated and open eyes.  I mean... .I was able to weed out the fantasy love and grieve what we were and the realit of the loss.

Yet... .then I was left being thrown mentally to the ex with NPD traits... .who I will call E... .  and lots of my grief surrounding him has some magical attachment issues I think. 

Maybe I am bottomed out tho and there may not be more work to be done... .idk.  Maybe what I am left with is ok... .idk...
Just throwing this all out here to see what may surface.

Thanks again

[heartandwhole]

Hi Sunfl0wer,

I'm sorry that this relationship ending has felt so rough for you. I remember reading some of your posts about this relationship, and it sounded to me like you both approached it in healthy ways and you were taking good care of yourself within the partnership as well. That is so important, and I admire you for being able to see so much in yourself. You take responsibility for yourself and your behavior, and that is something I respect very much.

Do you think the thoughts of E. came rushing back because of the grieving/vulnerability that you were going through? I know that we often turn toward the familiar when feeling anxious, afraid, stressed, vulnerable, etc.

Are you concerned that you may act on these thoughts for E.? Or get into a situation that isn't good for you? It doesn't sound like it to me, but I'm just asking to see if anything comes up for you. 

Letting go is hard. At least it is for me. In fact, I find myself grieving for all kinds of things lately. I have family visiting and I think I have been grieving my childhood as old family dynamics rear their unhealthy heads.    Maybe as we become more courageous and curious about feeling everything that comes up for us, we grieve a lot more often, and/or more intensely? Just a thought, from my own experience.

Is there a way you can nurture a connection with yourself/selves that mimics the kind of bond you shared with M.?

heartandwhole

 

[Sunfl0wer]

Heartandwhole,

Some things are harder for me to acceptand work with.  I find myself excelling at managing lots of crap... .yet, inept at working with love and acceptance.

... .Just want to say... .currently I am appreciating your username.  Now your icon that represents it... .a story for another day. :P

Soo... .
Thank you for your conscientious, thoughtful words.  ... .means more to me than I can express.

Turning to “the familiar” had not occurred to me... .interesting.  I will have to agree, yes... .I think though the reason I turned that way is because my mind seems to regress when I process stuff in the present.  I seem to move backwards in my regression.  So it feels like my mind wants to resolve the next item in que... .until it makes its way to my birthmom eventually.  (Sometimes I bounce around tho... .nothing is in stone)

I am NOT at all concerned of acting out on my grief towards E, ... .thanks for seeing that!  I have resolved that what I longed for in him and who he is... .are very different things.

I am however, stuck on... . what I left behind in that relationship.  It brought forth some ugliness in me that I rather truncate from my own memory.  I rather say... .“that wasn’t me! It was what he brought out in me!  He caused me to act that way!” Etc.

I MUST make NO excuses for myself for my recovery and trauma healing.

Quite frankly... .I have spoke here about the dynamics many times... .heck... .my post count is evidence enough.

I have been not so honest.  I have not exactly lied.  But I have veiled my truth in some ways.

When things were ending... .
There is a story I tell myself on how that went down.
It goes like this... .
His daughter became unsafe... .this IS true.
He was being emotionally a bully to me and always to my son.  ... .also true.

What holds me back is... .
Why did I allow that?
How do I trust myself wholly, moving forward... .that I would not allow myself to be in a situation of such abuse?

The whole truth that I try to deny... .

When I have spoken about abuse between us and the coulles counselor seperating us cause one of us exhibited abusive behavior.

It was me.
I flipped out at him emotionally/verbally taunting my child for the last time. I lost control of myself... .or so I thought. I lunged at him and literally grabbed him by the balls to take power back from us and protect my child who lay ill in his room, confused at what was going on... .why was this grown man always allowed to taunt him?  I was holding his balls firmly, but not trying to hurt him too badly.  I was telling him to shut the f*** up! And begging him to quit taunting my child.  He wouldn’t stop.  I cannot recall all the details... .some of it is a blur... .I recall trying to stop him from calling the police on me though. I was afraid that due to my intoxication... .I would regret the arrival of police.

I had had enough... .I burst out in some way... .all that I was suppressing and that built inside of me.

But what is unresolved for me is this... .
Why did I allow it to go that far, to take such risk... .he called police on me... . thankfully I was not arrested. (I ran off and hid a hour or so till I sobered up and could manage a conversation without slurring... .yup... .embarassing)

I was over the top intoxicated by the way.
(This is NOT an ongoing issue in my current life... .but WAS during that time)

What I refuse to let go of... .
Who was that person who attacked him?
Me of course... .but... .how did I allow myself to become that which I did not recognize?
I got there gradually... .
I felt threatened fully... .
And well
I could have been the one to justifiably be put in jail... .
My career could have been jepardized... .
And who would my son be in the care of... .him!

Wtf!
How did I get there?
How can I never get there again?

I partially want to rid myself of EVER getting intimate because I do not trust Me.

I want to love and trust me.
It seems necessary.

The counselor was good to me during this.  He taught me how to handle this fairly.  He believed in me fully... .that this was an extreme incident that I was determined to never repeat.  Our MC tried reunification... .he fully believed I was a safe and able partner.  There was a lot of sessions to get to this point and it was not pretty or easy.

When I think of nurturing myself... .
This aspect of my self that was able to become so violent... .is where I feel blocked.

However, I feel I need to fully face all the aspects of my self that I bring to every relationship... .and see what unearths... .how to make amends within my self.

Thank you for listening and helping me feel safe.
I feel ok to confront whatever comes my way for risking this truth here ... .from anyone who cares to attempt:)
Thank you!

[Sunfl0wer]

Is there a way you can nurture a connection with yourself/selves that mimics the kind of bond you shared with M.?

Yes, I could.

I think it is a good idea to... .NOT.

Reason being... .while I believe fully in a family systems dynamic and creating internal resources... .  that can also lead to further mental fragmentation on my part as I can also quite easily create an “introject” to soothe only what ails me and do a “kum by yah” with minimal mental resources... .leaving out my aspect of my self... .that was violent.

Or maybe better stated... .
To create mental resources at this point in my healing journey... .would only serve me temporary relief.  ... .just trust me on this one please.

Eventually... .
I still need to face my demons for full healing.

In order to love all of me fully.  I need to see the purpose and desires of my demons... .find what place they have in my psyche... .or so this is what I believe to be my current mental tasks surrounding this relationship.

Part of me can see that... .I was only trying to protect my own child.  Yet... .I also realize... .this processing is inherintly fragmented... .but can be pieced together fully. 

[Cromwell]

Hi Sunflower

Do you feel it was the case that you were scared of him and couldnt assert how you felt as a result.

We all get to the day with the straw that breaks the camels back, add alcohol to become disinhibited, and it sounds to me that that incident alone wasnt what caused you to behave that way.

Somehow you didnt feel able to assert yourself previously, is this really a negative reflection? It sounds to me you just used your intuition. Sometimes we get into situations or relationships where we blame ourselves a bit unfairly for not doing what seemed "right", yet at the time, we did the best we could in the circumstances.

Like you said, you were drunk, would it likely to have have happened otherwise? Ive done similar and the event itself ended up being a good thing, it became the turning point. When I ask myself, why did it have to reach that point - enmeshed and controlled as a gradual process until felt not able to speak up and be oneself. These types of people dont show you beneath the mask on day one, i see their behaviour as sly, suble and surreptitious until you wake up one day and find yourself almost in a corner that you have little choice but to fight yourself out of.

[Sunfl0wer]

Thank you greatly Cromwell for replying kindly!

I am going to admit some of my work on mindfulness during this thread, best I can.

I struggle reading this post.  My own issues DO surface.  Going to do my utmost to face this current discomfort and reply... .the darn irony.  Posting here... .does feel vulnerable.  I often shift and don’t notice... .or prefer posting from the other side... .  humm...   let’s try examining what pops up for me.  Thanks all for bearing with me!

Anywhoo... .
Back on track here... .

I WAS scared of him.  Certainly.  In that moment tho... .asserting myself meant that I would have to face life on my own.  My child is chronically ill... .I have a chronic mental illness... .I did not feel capable of living life on my terms.  I did not feel capable of moving out, and living life as a “single mom” again.  I am tired of being a single mom.  I never gripe about it... .but it is something I suppress daily.  It is hard caring for both my own needs... .AND those of my son.  Heck... .to be very blunt here... .I’m exhausted of my own mental illness. 

Where I struggle today is... .
I have opportunity to heal.  Not everyone has that chance.  I literally have opportunity to live as a unified whole mind.  Not everyone has that.  I don’t want to blow it.  I want to face my own demons and make sense of all this... .the cost is... .my own mental illness. 

It feels very vulnerable to out myself.
I’m grateful to do so here... .
Suppressing my helaing journey in real life... .
feels much like that demon that surfaced and grabbed E by the balls.
I feel vulnerable at work.  I’m scared of messing up.  I want a way forward to accept all of me... .so I do not seep my shame, guilt, and so forth... .and ruin my career with the strength of suppression I can empower my own demons... .and lose control.

Really trying hard here to make sense.
If I am not.
I NEED feedback please!
My dissociative disorder... .inherintly... .is hard for me to know the difference from External world issues and Internal world ones.  They mimick each other.
I am NOT ever psychotic.  I can only promise you that.

Yet working through the tough stuff for me van lend me to fragmented thinking or cognitive dissonance at times.
I admit that.

I can... .
Pull it together tho.
I CAN respond here United in my thinking so long as I get some feedback and know where I begin and you end.

Hopefully something here makes sense and is workable and helpful for all!

[Sunfl0wer]

Summary... .
I have spent thousands of posts on these boards... .
Sharing fragments of my self here and there.

Currently: I am trying to pull some of it together
... .and see how that gels!
 

Maybe it can be fun?

It is the only way tho for me... .
I have to pull more into all of my relationships that matter.

I’m glad some of you remember me.
I welcome the ones who do not ... .equally.

[Cromwell]

Hi Sunflower

It sounds like a lot of stress of daily life, coping for both yourself and your son.

It has helped me a lot to post her, and some of your recent threads have helped me too.

I dont know anything about dissociative disorder but what you have said makes sense to me so far.

It was extremely hard for me to come here and talk about my problems in my last relationship but it helped - a lot. So I understand.

I guess if something is working, is helping, it makes sense to continue?

It is difficult with relationships, my ex partner gave me a lot of joy, happiness, but at the same time could randomly cause me a huge amount of hurt.

It became a difficult judgment call, it was a weighing act, how much positive outweighs negatives. Eventually when the scale tips too far, it was an obvious choice to leave.

We all have our limitations and I think that day you speak about, was just a day where you might have reached yours as well?

[Sunfl0wer]

Hi Cromwell,
Thanks again for your thoughtful words... .

It is difficult with relationships, my ex partner gave me a lot of joy, happiness, but at the same time could randomly cause me a huge amount of hurt.

It became a difficult judgment call, it was a weighing act, how much positive outweighs negatives. Eventually when the scale tips too far, it was an obvious choice to leave.

We all have our limitations and I think that day you speak about, was just a day where you might have reached yours as well?

I agree completely.  You have stated what seems to be obvious... .quite simply.  I do appreciate reading it phrased so simply as I do tend to overthink many things... .and cause myself to become unraveled in the process.

(You seem to do well to hold dichotomies into your awareness... .idk if you always did this or learned it via your own healing journey.  I wonder.  I am not so skilled and need ways to cross through my own created dissociative barriers.  I wonder why the way you speak makes it seem seamless for you... .idk.)

Where I am still unsettled tho is my dilemma was not just about “that day”... . 

I “should have” reached my limit... .long before “that day.”

I’m currently stuck... .
Afraid of myself... .because of the abuse that I allowed upon myself and my son... .all leading up to that day.

I want to undo what led me there.

I want to be convinced that I will be able to walk away, uphold my values and boundaries when the day comes.  Correction... I want to be able to stay firm to my values... .throughout any relationship.  I want to walk all my relationships with self love and integrity to my fullest... .then... .I can see how I would not get to another... .“that day.” 

I firmly believe there is a way to walk the relationship from the opening scene... .and stay there... .let the chips fall where they may.

I AM practicing in my friendships all over the place.  
I am also... .alienating myself doing so.
Possibly a natural consequence of my personal growth?
Or
Maybe I am also a bully?

Learning the difference between having an advocate aspect of ones personality... .and a bully... .is a place I currently struggle.

It is hard to make sense of myself.
That is why I post.

Thank you for any replies... .
I appreciate them all.
And know others are living their life, etc.


Personally... .am not feeling well today so took a sick day off since I’m having a flare up... .eh!

[I_Am_The_Fire]

Hi Sunfl0wer,

Your words make complete and total sense to me. Thanks to therapy, I realized that I started to dissociate when I was around four years old. I'm in my 40s now. It's not an easy thing to deal with.

I had an experience when I felt I was "out of body" so to speak. Like someone one else took over my body and I completely lost control. Mine is a bit of a long story. I have PTSD. I started trauma therapy about three years ago. After I had just started therapy, my now ex (uBPD\NPD) triggered me on purpose really bad one day to the point I basically went physically berserk on him. He later told me he thought I just needed to "get the anger out and I'd be fine."  One day he was berating me for something. He was accusing me of a lot of things actually and he was getting angry. I asked him if we could talk about it later since I had just woken up and I don't do well with serious early morning conversations. He kept berating and harassing me. I begged him to stop. He wouldn't stop. I kept begging until I ended up hitting him as hard as I could with a pillow-like thing yelling at him how much I hated him until I was a sobbing mess on the floor. He then told me I was unstable and a danger to the children. I had just started trauma therapy and he knew this! My therapist told me (and I agree) that he had re-traumatized me. That was one of the main reasons I divorced him. Before that event, whenever we had a serious "discussion" I found myself "zoning out", kind of like I wasn't really there. Afterwards, I would remember there was an intense discussion (generally a one-sided lecture from him) but I couldn't remember any of the details. My therapist told me I was dissociating.

I'm doing EMDR therapy and have learned a lot about myself. I don't know if any of this will apply or help you. I hope it helps.

I learned that a lot lead up to that re-traumatizing moment. Years of abuse had taken its toll on me and I had basically hit rock bottom. I could not suck it up anymore. The pressure had built up over the years and I had not let it out mostly because I didn't know I was being abused. When pressures build up, things explode. I think the same goes for emotions too. If you suppress your trauma, your emotions, your feelings for years then it will build up and you will probably explode one day or you turn it inwards in self destructive behaviors.

I think it helps to take things one at a time and one day at a time. To not overwhelm yourself with worrying about whether or not you will be able to "walk away, uphold your values and boundaries when the day comes." Take care of yourself as much as you can. You can't pour from an empty cup. Sorting out who we are can be difficult. I think it takes time and patience. I'm glad you're writing here. Do you write in a journal as well? I've found that physically writing with a pen and paper really does help me figure things out or at least come up with things to work on. *hugs*

[Cromwell]

Hi Sunflower,

I think if you are practicing a new kind of 'assertiveness', if that is the right word?

Then many of your friends who knew you from before will be surprised or even scared to see a change all of a sudden, from what they have always known.

One of the things I have found works well is to be myself and if I inadvertently hurt someones feelings, then I will genuinely apologise.

It seems to work well. Rather than in the past, WOE and be afraid to speak what is on our minds. If not happy about something, deal with it there and then, obviously try to be tactful but get the point across.

Ironically, the very few times I ever stood up for myself in the relationship I was called a "bully".

If I was such a bully why did she stay another 2 years?

Its important to look at the behaviour and not focus on the words. If I listened to those words I could have easily believed them. They are projections and they say a lot more about the person than ourselves.

I know you are looking back and wondering why you didnt behave a certain way and you have some regrets. Thats just human nature and we can often be our own worst judges.

I went through a horrible time Sunflower, but, its quite possible it could have been far, far worse than it was. Maybe except for leaving, I did excellent - after all I didnt know anything about her disorder, I was just using my intuition to guide me.

We look back now because we have the advantage of experience, we didnt have that at the time. We could only do the best thing possible at the time and hope for the best - what more can be done? We are just human. Even my ex - I think? sometimes im not sure :D

I think it makes it far more difficult when you have a child to consider in the midst of it all, I really see you as a strong person Sunflower, it felt impossible to deal with just myself to think about.

I see your posts as just being a very deep thinker. The thing is, when we are thinking about ourselves we are using our own thoughts and perspective, it has helped me a lot to just describe my thoughts and get others opinions on it. It helps to get some non-emotional based insight, sometimes ive felt it is the emotional intensity that can cripple our ability to see fact from fiction.

Thanks for your best wishes, same back to you.

[Sunfl0wer]

Omg, Fire,
Tysm!

It is waaay different hearing a similar story... .that exists outside of my head.  Thank you!  

Feeling the story from that “observing perspective” as I soak in your words that do not belong to me... .I can sense things for you that I am blocked from internally.  I was able to sense... .compassion, care, steadfastness, protectiveness, vulnerability, and many others.

Reading this perspective triggered within me recall of an event... .
E was literally proving to me that he was trying to provoke my child!  This was about three yrs or so earlier to the event.  I came home and he described in great detail... .his actions... .my sons response... .and he was furious and trying to throw my kid “under the bus.”  I was... .enraged!  I suppressed my immediate rage.  I mediated my rage with Logic and reason, care, concern and love for all.  I put forth efforts to create literal informational pamphlets to express what to do when my child has an autistic meltdown and how to descalate the situation.  I insisted he MUST learn descalation techniques AND be proficient in them.  I made this a deal breaker topic.  I was there to support him and my son... .but under no circumstances... .was he to ever again get in my childs personal space and behave provokatively during my child having a state of any emotional distress.

This seemed... .to ameliorate the situation.
But... .
Was that the “right” thing to do?
What was I missing?

Were my aspects of myself out of balance?
How did I conclude this was workable?
How did I make these mistakes?
I was controlling an out of control situation.
I was bullying a bully?

... .

Thank you for all the words... .
I am also doing EMDR! ... .as needed as a part of the whole Systems therapy.  It is going amazingly!

Until I am unified... .my therapist seems unallowed to ever give me judgements or opinions as the task of forming my own ego must be my own right now.  So thank you for sharing thoughts of what your therapists tells you.  At my present state... .my therapist cannot make judgements as it could impky he is colluding with some and leaving others behind who think differently.

I am learning to act as a whole.
It is a process tho... .ongoing.

... .

Oh, yes... .i write lots in journals.  
I am not yet able to write with pen and paper tho because last time i tried that... .some serious stuff surfaced that I could not handle.  Fights ensued where someone stabbed the book.  Someone did not like the child like book... .another wanted a book they related to... .some wanted crayons, others colored markers, others grown up pens... .angry ones were tearing pages... .scared and paranoid ones were hiding the book... . we ended up walking around everywhere teethered to a collection of books and pens and well... .it got too overwhelming to keep that much stuff in my awareness.  It became not productive for us.

We do what works.
Atm... .journaling to our therapist and a few select others is working fine!

One day... .a few of us have hope to express ourselves via other mediums... .like... .charcoal, colored pencils, water colors, oils, etc.  on rare occasion... .I have found some drawings around that are stuffed away for another time.

[Sunfl0wer]

Oh Fire!
I now see... .
U also started therapy young like me. :/
I started at 5.  Also in my 40’s.
Only recently met this very highly skilled therapist.  Was a game changer for me to hunt down a man who does EMDR... .i lucked out completely... .not only does he do it... .he teaches it! And appearently seems to draw in a chunk of the dissociative spectrum crowds,

**hugs**

I’m so glad your session are working for you!

[Sunfl0wer]

Thx Cromwell

I think if you are practicing a new kind of 'assertiveness', if that is the right word?

Sorta... .is a good way to think of it.  I’m trying to integrate my anger into my experiences.  Growing up... .I was mute.  Expressions of any emotion were forbidden.  So understandably... .anger is tricky for me to know what it’s place is.  Seems tho... .noticing my anger and NOT suppressing it to oblivion... .could have helped me to match my values and boundaries with what I was feeling was and wasn’t ok for me.

I think I allowed my fear to veil my anger.  I was afraid of not succeeding.  Amazingly tho... .after moving out of our shared space... .my functioning improved greatly and I was able to put more energies into my business and life.
... .probably good to remind myself in the same breath... .that I am capable of more than I give myself credit for.

Ironically, the very few times I ever stood up for myself in the relationship I was called a "bully".

I had the same experience.  He felt I was a bully.  Our MC insisted I was NOT.  He left on the belief that I was his ongoing abuser all along.  I feel... .this was a projection on his part... .yet... .the idea haunts me today.

If I was such a bully why did she stay another 2 years?

I politely reject this logic.  I do believe I was bullied in many past relationships in which I stayed over 2 yrs.  My son was bullied by him over two years.  Why did I stay?  Because I was limiting my awareness.  I was holding fast to my fantasy version of the situation.  I think lots of folks do that.

The thing is, when we are thinking about ourselves we are using our own thoughts and perspective, it has helped me a lot to just describe my thoughts and get others opinions on it. It helps to get some non-emotional based insight, sometimes ive felt it is the emotional intensity that can cripple our ability to see fact from fiction.

Agreed!  Thank you for joining and sharing perspective... .  yay! hearing many perspectives does help me to digest and choose what direction to take.  Maybe I am saying this as a crutch of my own disorder... .yet... .me hearing the same stuff over and over and over... .is kinda... .needed... .eh. 

Example... .the journaling I do do... .I actually NEED to go back and reread it to recall all aspects of myself... .I forget my own thoughts... .always... .and have to refind them in my own thinking.  There is obviously some sense of continuity I’m working with here... .just... .hearing varying levels of perspectives... .reaches differing areas of my mind.

Thanks!

[I_Am_The_Fire]

Sunfl0wer... you are so very welcome! I am so glad I could help!

I am so happy to hear your EMDR sessions are going well! You do whatever works for you! That's awesome! I can understand your therapist not wanting to provide judgements or opinions. He probably wants you to do the work and figure it out for yourself and that's great.   It's hard work and very worth it!

I also do not believe you were being a bully despite what he claimed. My ex claimed the same thing (and still does) and he also claims I abused him all these years. My therapist, my friends, my family all tell me I was never a bully or abusive. I was emotionally shutdown all those years. There was no way I could even remotely have been a bully or abusive. I was barely surviving day to day. So he definitely was projecting his behaviors onto me. It sounds like you're experiencing the same thing or similar. It's still hard for me to wrap my head around it. I think this is where knowing who you are really helps.

I can so relate to the being mute growing up! I also wasn't allowed to express my feelings and emotions. Now I'm more assertive and my ex doesn't seem to know how to handle it. I call it "finding my voice". Once I started to stand up for myself and assert myself and I stopped managing his emotions, what was left of our marriage completely unraveled.

that I am capable of more than I give myself credit for.

YES!

Maybe I am saying this as a crutch of my own disorder... .yet... .me hearing the same stuff over and over and over... .is kinda... .needed... .eh. 

I don't think it's a crutch. I think it does help to hear things over and over for us to be able to take it in and figure out if we need it or not. I find myself re-reading parts of my journal, books, and articles at times. It usually helps me quite a bit.

It sounds like you're on a great path to healing and self discovery/awareness. I applaud you for all the hard work you've been putting into it.

[Cromwell]

I think I allowed my fear to veil my anger.  I was afraid of not succeeding.  Amazingly tho... .after moving out of our shared space... .my functioning improved greatly and I was able to put more energies into my business and life.
... .probably good to remind myself in the same breath... .that I am capable of more than I give myself credit for.

Sometimes we dont realise just how capable we are when we are kept limited by energy draining relationships. Since I left my ex, even considering the emotional pain/therapy/catch up on reflection issues, ive been astounded as to how far ive brought my life forward. This wasnt some magical power, its just that so much energy was directed at her, I had little to move myself forward, I became inert and stagnated in life. But crucially, I didnt realise it whilst each day went by. I really do believe that if you havent got sound self esteem or confidence, and being with BPD they know the weak points regardless of how strong you are, you really can get into a mindset of thinking you arent capable of more than what situation already in. Im really pleased to hear you have progressed far in life since leaving Sunflower, I want a partner that helps both move synergistically forward not one that holds me back whilst I try to help her.

I politely reject this logic.  I do believe I was bullied in many past relationships in which I stayed over 2 yrs.  My son was bullied by him over two years.  Why did I stay?  Because I was limiting my awareness.  I was holding fast to my fantasy version of the situation.  I think lots of folks do that.

Yep, agreed, my question doesnt really apply globally at all. Yet, for all that she came out with in her rage modes - and it was extreme - whilst I just sat there and listened I was thinking and at the same time begging myself to interrupt it all and say "well, in all fairness, if you really dont like me like you are saying, can you just politely f off?"

but part of me realised she was possessed by some sort of demon each of these times, it was so ghastly out of character of the woman I knew and loved. Or maybe that was just holding on to my fantasy versions of the situation?

Either way, its all in the past, she cant accuse me of bullying her anymore. The projection is like nothing ive ever encountered before.

I feel really bad your son has been bullied, especially he has autism. Im having the benefit of the doubt that he lacked the empathy and or knowledge to understand your son and didnt treat him according to his individual needs. Thanks for your insightful helpful messages Sunflower.