I do love my wife - but I am definitely not in love with her anymore

[In_Over_My_Head]

Hello all,

I will begin by saying the words that are the hardest for me to say: I NEED HELP.  I feel that I am losing my most basic human social orientation.  Am I properly discerning up from down?  Maybe it is me that suffers from emotional instability?  Perhaps I am absolutely crazy, like my wife contends.

I am quite sure my wife suffers from BPD, but she has never been formally diagnosed.  I suggested it to her one time and that did NOT go over well!  I have come to this forum to see if I can learn from what you all have experienced and to join in the dialogue, and if possible, add to the community.

I have been married for 10 years and together with my wife for a total of 13 years.  They have been the 13 most difficult and volatile years of my life.  They have not been all bad - there have been some great times.  But, the bad, have been beyond horrible.  I don't even know where to begin to describe the absolutely insane experiences I have been through.

Admitting I need help is extremely hard for me, as I've said previously.  And this weak trait of mine is probably what has gotten me in into the very deep mess I am in now - this is not lost on me.  I have always been very independent and self-sufficient.  I hate to be a burden to others, especially to my loved ones.  But I now see that I have become a burden to them despite this, as my family are suffering greatly seeing how my relationship with my wife has turned me from a happy-go-lucky guy, to a man that merely exists to get through the day.  They are literally begging me to leave the marriage, but I can honestly say that the thought of doing so makes me sick to my stomach.

I have morphed from a dynamic lover of life into a walking bag of flesh and bones that wakes up, goes to work, and them comes home to do what I'm told.  HOW DID THIS HAPPEN?   I ask myself this everyday.

I have always believed in marriage.  I have believed that marriage is for life.  And, I have had an excellent and healthy reason for that as I have two parents that have shown me what a healthy marriage is.  50 together years and going strong.  They are amazing - that is what was modelled for me.  I was very fortunate.

Even though I said that I believe that marriage is for life, I now can (easily) visualize my life without my wife.  I can see how it would be better.  I can see how I would wake up in the morning and be excited for the day again, instead of waiting to hear what I have already done wrong.  But, I can also see how different it would be.  And different is not always easy.

So, what is the problem?  Why not just leave, right?

My problem is that we have two absolutely wonderful daughters. (6 & 8 yrs old)  My heart absolutely shatters at the thought of having to tell them than mummy and daddy are splitting up.  I cannot even take the thought of it.  My family, various therapists, and others have told me they will be fine.  Or, they will be better for it.  But I just don't believe it.  My heart is breaking in real-time thinking about it.  I feel that I should stick it out for them.  And, I am willing to do that.  But I now feel that there is an entirely new risk that has entered the equation.  I fear that either my wife or I will end up charged with assault.  Seriously.

My wife has a temper like I have never seen before.  She grew up in, well, poverty.  He father was an alcoholic and abandoned the family when she was about 8.  Her mom raised 4 kids on nothing at all.  There was a lot of fighting and turmoil in her environment.  Every day was a struggle.  Christmas dinners came from the food bank.  So, I have always accepted her anger as a result of the serious challenges she faced in her youth.  I felt sorry that she had to go through all this.  Inside she is such a wonderful person and I saw/see this.  She really is.  But the rough shell that comes out is absolutely wicked.  I understand she had to be tough to survive. And tough she is.  The problem is, when her triggers are hit, she is violent with me.  Meaning, she'd rip a leather necklace right off my neck.  She'll punch me in the chest, throat or back.  But, a few weeks ago she started going for my face.  And she doesn't punch like a girl - no offense.  She has knockout power.  This for me is just too much.  I CANNOT handle this.  I would never hit a lady - ever - but I fear I could be accused of doing so if she beat the ___ out of me.  It would be a convenient defence for her.  

I have always lived my life on the straight and narrow.  I have busted my ass all my life.  I grew up in an upper mid-class family.  I was lucky and I know this.  I've been financially self sufficient since I was 15, plowed through 12 years of post college graduate industry accreditations and courses to be all that I could be.  I am as accredited as one can be in my industry.  I run my own company and I am responsible to a fault.  I feel immense responsibly for keeping my family together.  But now I am being told by those I trust most that I am being irresponsible staying in this terrible situation.  I am so confused.

I could easily leave.  I do love my wife - but I am definitely not in love with her anymore.  Even after everything she has done to me I know she is a good person.  I understand she is deeply troubled and extremely immature, especially with regards to the regulation of her emotions.  But if I leave my wife, where does that leave my two daughters?  I would never seek sole custody - that is too cruel.  She does her best and she loves them as I do - which is more than life itself.  It is me who is the lightening rod.  

Having said that, she is not a good role model, in my opinion.  She cannot stick to one train of thought for longer than a few days.  She doesn't work, I am the sole financial provider.  Her job prospects are not good due to lack of education.  She starts projects, courses, books and inevitably fails to follow through and complete any of said tasks.  She sleeps every chance she gets.  It's impossible to wake her up in the morning.  She yells and screams at all of us.  Nothing is good enough for her.  We live an extremely privileged life with two beautiful homes yet nothing is good enough for her.  There is a chip in the paint, a dead spot in the lawn, streaks on the windows.  She only sees the negatives.   I (used) to pinch myself everyday in awe of all that we have earned through hard work.  Now, I just wait to hear what is wrong with what we have.  It's totally bizarre.

I am here because I need to know if what I describe sounds like BPD to those that understand BPD better than I do.  My wife and I were seeing a therapist both individually and as a couple to work on the marriage.  My wife decided to change therapists and it was at that time that the originally therapist suggested to me that my wife had BPD.  She then said, "what is it about you that allows yourself to be abused like that"?  I was absolutely shocked!  I had never before thought of myself as being the victim of abuse or bullying.  No, not me, I am tough and independent, I thought.  It was a revelation for me.  It was there and then that I realized how abnormal this all was.  I actually got used to the volatility, the screaming, and the temper tantrums.  I never would have believed that I would become that sort of man.

I am a researcher by interest so I have done a ton of reading online.  I read everything I could find about BPD - I was convinced my wife had exactly this.  That is, until I put my internet diagnosis forward to a friend who is a psychiatrist who shut me right down.  She said there is no way my wife has BPD.  BUT, this friend only knows the wonderful, generous, kind soul side of my wife.  She doesn't know what I live and have learnt over the years.  Which is:

*She spends $10k on average on her credit card bill per month and just sends me a text when due saying, "you need to pay $X dollars on the credit card".

*She screams at the kids and me incessantly and says out loud that she wishes she could just move into her own condo.

*Doesn't have time to make the kids lunches for school even though her only daily chore is to drop the kids off and pick them up at the same school.  So, I pay the school to make them a hot lunch. We have a cleaning lady, extra help when needed etc... .

*That I required her to get her own Uber account because everytime we're out and she drinks, she screams at me the whole way home in the Uber which caused my Uber rating to get so low that I had trouble getting a ride.  She's usually mad that I suggest that 2:00AM might be an appropriate time to call it a night.  She never wants to leave a party.  We use her account now - that has helped.

*When out with friends (after a few drinks) she finds it appropriate to tell a group of strangers how little sex we have, and call me pathetic for that.

*I no longer have relationships with my lifelong friends because (again after a few drinks) my wife interprets a completely innocuous comment as a barb and gets in their face as if to fight them. They think she's a freak.  I understand why they think that, but that still hurts me a lot, she is the mother of my girls.  

*My family no longer feels welcome on our home because of the tension.

*She throws me under the bus in public because she claims I should give more money to her mother.  Actually she wanted me to buy her a condo. Sorry, I can't afford that, and the kids come first. Not only that you have 3 other siblings that could help like I am.

*Is constantly claiming my family doesn't like her, or is saying bad things about her (while true now - it wasn't when she said it).

*I recently found out she's been going through every one of my texts, emails, expenses, even sleep patterns on my iWatch, and phone records to try to find someone amiss.  She constantly thinks I am doing something untoward.

*She badgers me as to why we don't travel more knowing full well that she's literally made out with some random stranger (while drunk again) on every trip (except Disney World, ) we've been on.  The next day she is profusely apologetic, but it means nothing to me because I know it'll happen again. So, I'm pretty much done with the travel thing.  The embarrassment I have been through is truly epic and painful.

And things I've found out which happened before I met her:
 
*Pre-me she claimed bankruptcy

*Pre-me she was charged with 2 or 3 (the exact figure always changes) counts of assault causing bodily harm

*Pre-me she worked at a strip bar (apparently just as the shooter girl - hmmm)

*Pre-me she was charged with a DUI

*Pre-me she worked at a body rub parlour and was charged for not having a license to operate as such.  Just found this one out recently.  Nice.  Adding insult to injury, she told one of the school mom's this while she was out a girls night (drunk of course).  When she drinks she has ZERO filter.  I tried to explain that that is great, but did you think how that might negatively affect our girls if that was to get out?  I have to cover this stuff all the time.  It's excruciating.

I have spent tens of thousands of dollars to make these things go away.  Once discovered, I paid off her debts, hired lawyers to petition pardons so she would be able to accompany the kids on school field trips (the school requires a police background check).

I know, I know.  I am loser.  I never saw any of this coming.  It was just never before in my world.  I have never told anyone this.  This is how low I am.  I am writing this on a bulletin board online.  

Anyway, these issues have just kept creeping into my life over the years.  I am constantly waiting for the next thing I will find out.  My purpose seems to do what I can to keep a semblance of normalcy for my children.

So, where I am at now?

Well, my wife has been threatening me with divorce for about 4 years now.  She tells all my friends, my family, and the world (when she drinks) that she's "leaving my ass".  Yes I know, classy, right?  Interestingly, she doesn't say a word to her family as she knows they all like and respect me very much.  She pretends all is well and good with them.  All the damage she inflicts is outside of them.  Knowing how she is, I have let it go as just another crazy thing she does.

She has told me of 9 lawyers she's contacted.  She uses this tactic as a weapon.  I warned her that it might be a weapon that will backfire on her.  But, it's the only thing she can come up with.  She knows of my desire to keep the family together - and uses it against me.  So, lawyers are her nuclear stockpile.  I said to her, the day you hire a lawyer is the day this gets real.  She paid $400 to a lawyer recently and yesterday we saw a family crisis mediator.  To be honest, I have no idea whether she is bluffing or not.  She has done this sort of thing so many times before.  She's broken up with me probably 200-300 times.  Usually last a few hours.  Maybe a day for a big fight.  Every time afterward she says, "it was a cry for help, I would never divorce you, you are the love of my life".  What the heck?

I am so confused.  :)oes any of this sound familiar to any of you?

The pain I carry for my daughters is killing me.  They are innocent victims, and they don't deserve what they have already seen/heard and what I fear they are yet to see and hear.  It's affecting my sleep, my work, everything!  I'm at my wit's end.
 Sadly, I see no easy path ahead for any of us.

And advice would be very welcome.

Thanks for letting me vent.  I will likely delete this soon for fear that she will somehow find it (as she does everything) and absolutely freak out.

Be well, all.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[DogMan75]

Oh man. That’s a lot.

It sounds like you know, in your heart of hearts, what you need to do. There’s a reason you posted in this board, and not ‘Bettering’.

I know what it’s like to try to save a doomed relationship “for the kids.” I’ve been down that road too. I tried my best to save that one, and despite my best efforts, failed. 12 years later, I can’t believe I fought it the way I did. My daughter has grown up in two homes, yes. Not ideal, it’s true. But her mom remains unstable, and in retrospect there’s never been any hope of me changing that.

However, this way, she’s has had a stable home: mine. When her abusive, alcoholic step-father goes on a bender and her mom does nothing to protect her children, she has a home with me that can rely on being safe in. Can you say the same of a home shared with your wife?

“Do it for the kids” is a legitimate argument. The problem is most people don’t seem to understand that sometimes two homes are better than one. As unorthodox as it sounds, sometimes it’s best to breakup for the kids.

I respect your commitment to your marriage. I believed that marriage is forever, too. The problem is, it’s not all up to you. It takes two to really make a marriage work. That means it only takes one bad actor to really ruin it. You can’t do it on your own, no matter how you try. I’ve tried that twice now. It’s painfully true.

It sounds like maybe you’re not quite ready to pull the trigger yet, and that’s ok. Take your time. It’s a big step and you need to be ready, to know you really did do all you could.

Just know, there’s no shame in giving up at some point. There comes a point where there’s nothing being accomplished but wasting your life. You may not be able to save her, but you can save yourself remain intact enough to provide a stable home for your kids.

[In_Over_My_Head]

Thank you, man.  I appreciate your words.  More than you know.

[DogMan75]

Thank you, man. 

My pleasure.

I appreciate your words.  More than you know.

You might be surprised.

Everybody’s story here is different, but still so remarkably the same. I know I would have been totally lost without the support I found here. It didn’t save my relationship -nothing could have- but it did save my sanity (you know, mostly).

It’s not really possible for somebody who hasn’t experienced it to truly understand what it’s like to live through one of these relationships. They might see the tip of iceberg, but they don’t know just how deep it goes. They also don’t see the flipside: what could possibly be so appealing as to keep us involved in such madness? How could we explain it?

You have a whole community of people here who really get it.

[Enabler]

Morning IOMH,

Well done for raising your hand. It's a credit to your wisdom and humility... .and you've come to the right place to help iron out your thoughts.

Your story sounds eerily similar to mine and has huge similarities to many many many other members. Your wealth and success merely dials up and down certain behaviours but commonalities still persist across the board. I wholeheartedly adhere to your reasons for staying and standing and these are honorable reasons. We can help you work through those values and further cement the direction you wish to take yourself and your family.

Your personal safety is of paramount importance. Assault in any form is serious and from what you have described there's a pattern of escalating assaults which is now moved on to head blows. I would recommend addressing this is your primary focus at the moment. There are people on the boards here with a wealth of experience not only in DV (domestic violence) but in changing the way you think about DV, you do not deserve to be hit, you definitely don't deserve to be hit in the face. A member who springs to mind is Wentworth and I will endeavor to look him in to help coach you here.

Losing your basic sense of sanity is very very common in a BPD relationship. Constant accusations, chaos and humiliation are standard weaponry and it's almost inevitable that we get sucked down into the mental abyss. The preservation of reality is paramount to our own mental stability, I was going to suggest that you write and inventory of milestones and events... .but you've pretty much done that in your post anyway. I found it very helpful to pad that our with other non-wife related events and milestones. Birth of kids, holidays, death of relatives, family arguments. As much detail as you can and look for evidence for each thing, emails, photos, letters etc etc. The mind does funny things with memories, reprocesses them with current emotions and then repackages them when stored again. It's important that you get a clear picture of the whole relationship such that you are self assured that YOU are not kidding yourself and YOU are not living in a delusion of your own self righteousness. It's an inventory of you and your relationship and your wife's behaviours.

Gavage as much information from the tools and articles on the right hand side and top banner. They are excellent and very informative. Given your wife's clearly traumatic upbringing I can recommend a book I found very helpful.

Toxic Parents -  Susan Forward
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Toxic-Parents-Overcoming-Reclaiming-Paperback/dp/B00M0DB3ZG/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1531301173&sr=8-2&keywords=toxic+parents+susan+forward

Another book I found very helpful in improving and understanding BPD was:
When hope is not enough - Bon Dobbs
https://www.amazon.co.uk/When-Hope-Not-Enough-Second/dp/1329444094/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1531301246&sr=1-1&keywords=when+hope+is+not+enough

The latter book was a good instructive manual on how to adapt your rational thinking mind into being able to understand an emotional thinking mind, how to respond and communicate with that emotional mind and how to better your interactions with that person.

For now I would park any thoughts of big decisions and focus on understanding and addressing your current situation, your and your children's personal safety. I hope you're ready for a tidal wave of support, empathy and a global powerhouse of knowledge.

Enabler 

   

[Enabler]

That is, until I put my internet diagnosis forward to a friend who is a psychiatrist who shut me right down.  She said there is no way my wife has BPD.  BUT, this friend only knows the wonderful, generous, kind soul side of my wife.  She doesn't know what I live and have learnt over the years. 

FWIW I approached a family friend who has known my W for the last 8yrs. She is a trained child psychologist. Her response was "I don't see the emotional intensity in EnablerW that would indicate that she suffers from BPD"... .when I mentioned this to my own Therapist he said "why should she see it? BPD is a disorder of masks, your W has had 30yrs to perfect the masks and is very very good at it." Don't let one person who is unlikely to 'see' the emotional intensity put you off course in what you can evidence.

[Panda39]

Admitting I need help is extremely hard for me, as I've said previously.  And this weak trait of mine... .

Asking for help is hard for me too... .it's tied to my own self-esteem and my "inner critic"... .causing me to feel I'm not good/smart/strone enough to handle xyz situation myself.  Emotionally it's hard because of past negative messaging, but in reality asking for help isn't "weakness" it is intelligent.  There are so many people out there that have been through something similar, or that come at something from a different point of view that the smart thing to do sometimes is ask others.  Sometimes they don't have the answer or the solution but there is simple support from others in just having the discussion.

You've landed in a great place, with people that "get it" and that have been through much of what you are going through.  Asking for help, ideas, and support happen here everyday, it's a safe place to do this and the flip side is you can share your experience with others too.

I have morphed from a dynamic lover of life into a walking bag of flesh and bones that wakes up, goes to work, and them comes home to do what I'm told.  HOW DID THIS HAPPEN?   I ask myself this everyday

 

It is a slow and gradual process of normalizing what isn't normal, until you hit your limit.  I was married to an alcoholic for 20 years and went through the very same thing.

My problem is that we have two absolutely wonderful daughters. (6 & 8 yrs old)  My heart absolutely shatters at the thought of having to tell them than mummy and daddy are splitting up.  I cannot even take the thought of it.  My family, various therapists, and others have told me they will be fine.  Or, they will be better for it.  But I just don't believe it.  My heart is breaking in real-time thinking about it.  I feel that I should stick it out for them.

I stuck it out in my marriage (20 yrs) and my SO stuck it out in his marriage (17 yrs) with his undiagnosed BPD ex-wife (uBPDxw).  For many reasons, financial, belief in marriage vows, the belief that you work on your marriage, co-dependence, for the kids... .there were a lot of reasons to try. 

The thing is to also think about the environment that your kids are in when you and your spouse are fighting all the time, or in my case dad is drunk in the basement, or my SO's uBPDxw blew the rent money on one way plane tickets etc.  How might staying affect your children.

My son developed social anxiety.  I thought I was protecting him by keeping his fathers drunken rages directed at me.  But my son was there for all of it, he saw it, and heard it.  He didn't have friends over because you can't do that with drunk dad in the house.

My SO's daughters have not come away unscathed either but because we left all of our children were exposed to a different way to live, a safe place, a respectful place, and yes a happy place to live and have learned another way.

I'm not telling you what you should do, everyone is different, and every situation is different.  You have your perspective but when thinking about this think about your children's perspective as well.

My other thought for you, might be to visit a lawyer... .do a consultation this doesn't mean you run right out and get a divorce but find out what your rights are, what are your states custody guidelines, tell your story get feedback on how best to protect yourself and your kids. Also be aware that any attorney your wife visits you can not hire it is a conflict of interest.  So she has blocked anyone she has seen as possible representation for you and you will do the same with her when you see someone.

We also have a "Family Law" board you might want to check out again just to educate yourself. https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?board=10.0

I also want to suggest that you start documenting what is going on in terms of your wife's behaviors. Do this in a safe place that she has no access to.  Save texts, emails, and write up things experienced with her.  This documentation does a couple of things, it can help with your own sanity it helps to keep track of what really happened (because she will try and create her own narrative around her bad behaviors) and it is documentation of a pattern of behavior should you decide to leave your marriage later.

Panda39

[In_Over_My_Head]

Based on what I have described, do you think my wife is on the BPD spectrum?

It's so hard to mentally reconcile being with a person that can be so erractic / self destructive / angry and in some periods, be so kind and caring. 

I have people urging me to leave her, but I say to them, "you just don't understand, there is a really kind person in there too - it's not that easy to just walk away!"

I wish she would be evaluated for BPD but do so effectively the therapist would need to know the crazy and bad things she's done - but she would never tell a therapist all those things.  At least if I knew with confidence that it was BPD I would feel like I had a starting point.

Would really like to know if those more experienced with BPD think what I have described is someone with BPD.

Thank you.

[Gemsforeyes]

Dear IOMH-
I am so sorry for what you and your children are having to endure.  And I am sorry for your uBPDW’s struggles and her failure to see or absorb the impact that her devastating actions are having on your precious children and you.  Not all scars can be seen.  My own scars are not visible.

The previous posters have made valid points, as have you.  I have a few of my own.  First I’d like to acknowledge that of course your W has good points; naturally underneath all of that horrific behavior there may be a “good person”.  Please know, I don’t intend to heighten your pain or confusion, But if we honestly shine a light on this situation does a “good person” publicly belittle her husband?  Does a good person act in the way she acts?  Does the list of behaviors she engages in describe the characteristics of a “good person”?  A good wife?  A loving mother?

We cannot deliver a BPD diagnosis here, but from all that I’ve read and experienced through my relationships (now exBF), sister and former friend, I would say your W exhibits some very strong traits.  The fact that she has perfected her mask (as another poster stated) in the presence of a professional is no surprise.  It’s a whole lot easier for your W to continue with her brutal dysfunction than to face the illness with the hard work and “shame” associated with admitting there is something “wrong” with her.  It’s much easier to blame all of her problems squarely on you - where NONE of that blame belongs.

As for the marriage for life thing... .well this “never give up” ideal, doesn’t really have to carry that negative connotation.  If you find that redirecting your W toward a more healthy and safe path for the marriage (and your precious children) is NOT a possibility, then NEVER GIVE UP on yourself and your kids.  I have had to realize, through a LOT of pain... .that not everyone we lose is a loss.

Your uBPDW HAS to be a willing participant in her own wellness.  And I agree wholeheartedly, begin your documentation process. 

I would encourage you to learn the communication tools available on this board.  See if establishing boundaries with her is a possibility.  See if you can secretly record on your phone when she begins to go off the rails and then transfer the recordings to another device when you’re at work.  Whatever you write on here is safe.  You can delete it off your device, but we’ll have it for your reference to help you.  Use passwords that she’ll not be able to guess.

Finally, share with a friend, or friends that she has physically assaulted you if and when that takes place.  Especially if you’re not yet prepared to call the authorities.  But if you feel you are in danger, then call the authorities.  There is NO SHAME in that.

Bring your family back into your life.  It is so vital that you not allow any more isolation.  She is going to scream anyway, so why not garner support and love from those you know want contact with you.

I, we, all understand how difficult and painful this situation is.  Please stay with us.  Please write anything and everything you need to say.  We know you are a kind, loving, giving and caring husband and father.
The fact that you have come to our community is a wonderful step forward. 

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

[ILuvABorderline]

First let me tell you that, YOU ARE NOT ALONE. Your story sounds so much like my own and many others I have read here.

Second, you are not doing yourself, your girls or your wife any favors by staying in an abusive relationship. I am NOT suggesting a divorce. I am simply stating that your wife needs serious help and in an environment where she has begun to be physically abusive towards you, she will not get it. Unfortunately, her behaviors will more likely than not continue to escalate. The is coming from a woman who lost control of her temper ONCE, two years ago, punched her Borderline husband in the shoulder and has never heard the end of the threats of charges being filed against me and possibly losing my children. My husband has never laid a finger on me but has begun to destroy our house with his bare hands. I worry that no matter your resolve to never hit your wife, that you are human, and one day you will have had too much. Would a temporary separation be in order? Would that be a light bulb moment she would need to get help?

Third, love is much more of a choice than fluffy puffy feelings. My conscious feelings towards my husband can vary greatly depending on how he is treating me. I lean towards the thought that you wouldn't be here on this board if there weren't still thoughts of love locked away in your heart towards her. In my darkest moments of feelings towards my husband I reason that if God could raise Jesus from the dead, He can resurrect love in my heart. In my husband's good moments, I am reminded of why I fell in love with him and why I choose to remain married to him. I'm not ready to give up yet. Even though many days I feel like it.

Fourth, is it possible your wife has a problem with drinking? Addiction often runs hand in hand with BPD. My husband drank for years to deal with his pain. The alcohol masked many of the now marked BPD traits. It sounds like your wife may be trying to self soothe with alcohol. Remember that " hurting people hurt people." I have heard it said and believe it to be true that pwBPD are like emotional burn victims. What would feel like a butterfly landing on a nonBP's arm, feels like the equivalent of having freshly burned skin rubbed with coarse sandpaper to a Borderline. When they perceive any type of threat, they lash out in self defense, delivering death blows. They kill before they can be killed. My husband threatens me with all of the things he is afraid I will do. Make any sense?

Finally, I would love to hear, a description of things you like about your wife. Tell us who she is and what she is like when the Borderline Beast is sleeping and you can just see her heart.

[ILuvABorderline]

You said that you researched BPD, so you are probably aware of the criteria but here it is again, anyway. What you described could or couldn't be BPD behavior. It could very well be another mental health disorder.

Very common for there to be a childhood trauma.

Struggles with sense of self. Usually functions better with defined roles. Ex: My husband worked for the same company for 20 years. BPD behaviors flared after placed on disability.

EXTREME fear of abandonment and rejection

Lack of impulse control. Ex: addiction, over spending, promiscuity, etc.

EXTREME mood swings. Can go from being in an angry rage, to happy in a matter of moments, called "splitting." Often seems like you are dealing with two different people living in the same body.

Anger issues. As in over the top displays of anger and rage. Saying the WORST things, breaking things, physical abuse towards others, self harm.

High rate of comorbidity of other mental health issues. OCD, depression, anxiety, etc.

BPD is often misdiagnosed. Can be misdiagnosed as Bipolar Disorder. Takes a really good therapist to determine. Dedication from the pwBPD to heal. Also called Emotional Dysregulation Disorder which sounds a lot less scary than Borderline Personality Disorder.

Hope some of this helps!

[pearlsw]

Hello all,

I will begin by saying the words that are the hardest for me to say: I NEED HELP.  

I am quite sure my wife suffers from BPD, but she has never been formally diagnosed.  I suggested it to her one time and that did NOT go over well!  I have come to this forum to see if I can learn from what you all have experienced and to join in the dialogue, and if possible, add to the community.

They have been the... .most difficult and volatile years of my life.  They have not been all bad - there have been some great times.  But, the bad, have been beyond horrible.  I don't even know where to begin to describe the absolutely insane experiences I have been through.

Admitting I need help is extremely hard for me, as I've said previously.  And this weak trait of mine is probably what has gotten me in into the very deep mess I am in now - this is not lost on me.  I have always been very independent and self-sufficient.  I hate to be a burden to others, especially to my loved ones.  But I now see that I have become a burden to them despite this, as my family are suffering greatly seeing how my relationship with my wife has turned me from a happy-go-lucky guy, to a man that merely exists to get through the day.  

HOW DID THIS HAPPEN?   I ask myself this everyday.

I have always believed in marriage.  I have believed that marriage is for life.  And, I have had an excellent and healthy reason for that as I have two parents that have shown me what a healthy marriage is.  50 together years and going strong.  They are amazing - that is what was modelled for me.  I was very fortunate.

Be well, all.

Hi In_Over_My_Head,

I hope you are able to find a way to continue using the site. This is something I have struggled with myself. I have managed to hold on, undetected, for nearly a year, but I have a fear I will lose my access at any time.

I think it is one of those things you have to just face. You need help. If she tries to prevent you from using this site or getting help in any way than you have an even bigger problem than you already realize. That is how I look at it. I had to wrestle my computer out of his hands once and I will keep fighting for my right to have privacy and any kind of help I can get.

Before I started using this site I'd call suicide hotlines in my home country just to have someone to talk to - for about 15 minutes at a time - that is all I had. I wasn't suicidal, but they will talk to you if you are distressed so that was my "in" and my way to keep him off my back about it. He was also monitoring my phone calls.

Anyway... .I want to say that a lot of what you wrote resonated with me, although I do not have kids, and am probably not so traditional, though there are a lot of long term marriages in my family as well. I thought I would have the same thing in life, just like they all did, but it was not so easy to make happen in this day and age. I am still grasping at why.

I am like you too in the sense that I don't want to be a burden to anyone or ask for any help for anything. It is a flaw though when it comes down to it, but one I cannot give up so easily. I'm here with ya, we're all here with you, as you walk on this journey. There is a lot to learn... .maybe you will find a way to manage and stay together, maybe you find a way to be apart and create a new life. We're here either way to support and provide understanding.

with deep compassion, pearl.

[In_Over_My_Head]

Wow.  What an amazing community!  Such support and understanding.  I thank you all so very much.

I will reply in greater depth when I have more time.

In the meantime, I will say that I am thankful for feeling that I might have finally found a place where I can talk to people who understand what I am talking about.  I have spent over ten years trying to justify, rationalize, explain, and/or hide my wife's behaviour. 

I have tried to get help while maintaining her/our privacy.  Meaning, I have not spoken about the terrible and unsavoury things my wife has done.  I believe in privacy.  The only reason I have shared what I have (which is completely out of character for me) is because of the anonymity this community provides.

I have to say though,  I am very pissed off at the medical community.  I have tried to get help from professionals.  I have told them some of what I posted in my original post.  They have blown me off.  As if to say, that blaming my wife won't solve your marital problems.  Blame is not part it!  I don't care about blame.  I am trying to keep a family together.  I don't care about ME anymore, I am just trying to give my daughters a good and happy life.  I am certainly not perfect and have lost my temper and said things I regret many times.  BUT, I don't do things that cross the line (hit, threatening divorce like it's nothing, threaten family, create huge scenes in public, etc.).

The last time I saw a marriage counsellor (I was alone), I told her that my wife has a history of violence, bad choices, that she threatens my with divorce at the drop of a hat and that she is dangerously reckless.  She said, "well that's what women do when they're at their wit's end".  She then implied that maybe I should check what I was doing to cause that behaviour in her.  With that, I paid her the $200 for the hour and said goodbye.

My experience with seeking professional help has been mostly futile.

So again, I thank you all for listening and relating. 

[Gemsforeyes]

Uuuuuhhhhh, excuse me!  Say WHAT? But “THAT’S what women do when they’re at their wits end?”... .  maybe that’s what the so called professional marriage counselor does - issues divorce threats, becomes violent, screams and rages in public, behaves recklessly and makes bad choices?

When I’m at my wits end, I light a few candles, climb in the tub and have a bubble bath.

Just sayin... .that counselor’s license needs to be pulled.

Stay with us, my friend... .we’re right in the trenches with you!

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

[Turkish]

IOMH,

This article may help: https://bpdfamily.com/content/what-borderline-personality-disorder

The feature articles are in pull down menus from the green at the very top of the site boards. 

Whether or not she is actually BPD, the shaming behaviors sound brutal, and shame on the T who excused her behaviors. I'd try to find another T. If that T was made aware of DV in front of the kids,  then double shame on her.

Your wife's alcohol abuse is certainly another complication.

I'm concerned about the level of violence both for you and your kids. 

This might help you put it in perspective: MOSAIC Threat Assesment

Do you have a safely plan? These things can turn quickly, especially if you have little to no real life support in place. 

T

[Panda39]

I'm sorry the Medical Community has let you down.  If you reach out again try looking for someone with experience with BPD they should have more awareness.

That marriage counselor... .I use the word counselor loosely   didn't know what she was talking about. Clearly you were describing abusive behaviors.  

Below is a copy of the Power & Control wheel (you can google it to get a bigger copy) that gives a brief overview of abusive behaviors.  What you described to the counselor are on here... .



Panda39

[Enabler]

I'm sorry the Medical Community has let you down.  If you reach out again try looking for someone with experience with BPD they should have more awareness.

I second that and whilst reading the thread above was my exact thoughts. Not everyone believes in Unicorns, even those in professional circles. The T you saw was right, this is what 'people' do when they are at their whits end, this is what people do when they are in survival mode and this is what people do when they are fighting for their lives... .but not since they were a teenager and not when there is no rational or reasonable reason to be fighting for ones life. When that's occurring it suggest a personality disorder.

Please don't be disheartened, you're focused now, I hope you start to get the sense that you have found the enigma machine to start decoding your life, your reality. Bit by bit things will hopefully start to make more and more and more sense. With this clarity you can start to make better, more informed choices.

Enabler

[Radcliff]

It's an immense load you are carrying -- trying to stay safe, work to support your family, care for the kids, and keep things calm at home.  You are getting some amazing support from bpdfamily here.  My most important advice is for you to stay engaged on this site and let us walk this journey with you.  You are not alone.  The advice and support I received here changed my life, and may have saved it.

You've received good advice here on many fronts.  Your list of troubles is long.  Job 1 is addressing the issue of violence in your home.

I have three daughters, about 10 years older than yours.  We have a lot to talk about.  You can read about my story here.  Much of it will sound familiar to you.
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=320499.0;all

Most people think that domestic violence primarily affects women.  Crime studies tend to support this view because women tend to inflict less damage on men and men are less likely to report.  Studies that randomly survey large populations show that women are abusive just as often as men.  You are not alone.

To start coming up to speed on domestic violence, I would suggest you start with this bpdfamily article on BPD and physical abuse, which also links through to this bpdfamily topic on domestic violence for men.

I have three urgent assignments for you:

1.  Documentation -- If you have not already, begin documenting in a journal every incident of abuse directed at you or the kids.  Include threats, blocking you, verbal abuse of you in front of the kids, etc.  Photographs of any marks on you, etc.  Keep off-site backups.  Because violent pwBPD can be incredible manipulators, this documentation is critical to your safety, potentially to your liberty, and to your ability to safeguard your parenting.  Periodically e-mail your journal or summaries of incidents to a trusted friend who would be able to testify to receiving the information (you are creating a time stamp and a witness so nobody can accuse you of making things up at a later date).

2.  Visit a local domestic violence advocate -- The support here is game-changing, but you also need face-to-face support.  It is a big and vital step to talk to someone face-to-face who believes you.  There may be several nonprofits in your area, and you might want to "shop around" to find the one that has the most effective approach to you as a male survivor.  I was surprised at the level of acceptance and support I received.

3.  Visit your local police station -- Ask to talk to someone for advice on how to safely deal with your wife, and ask for their policies when they respond to a DV call.  Must they arrest someone?  How do they determine who to arrest?  You are getting good info as well as establishing a rapport with the department.  I did this, and would you believe it, a few days later the police had to come to my house and it was the same officers I'd talked to at the station!

Let me know your thoughts on these three homework assignments.  You've got a long road ahead of you to get things safer and healthier.  We will help you through it.

WW

[Radcliff]

I just saw this article on the story of a male survivor.  You also might be interested in this Web article on women as the abusers.  These come from the Web site we refer members to in order to locate local domestic violence resources.

WW