How can I get across to him that the things he imagines are not me at all?

[Dying Soul]

My BPD partner's false accusations, beliefs, suspicions and memories are causing our relationship very serious damage.

If I'm not supposed to J.A.D.E., how can I get across to him that the things he imagines are not me at all? I do have the feeling that defending myself sometimes does help a bit... .I'm not even always sure that he really believes all of those things about me. I've even often offered to do a polygraph, but he's refused until now.
It's painful enough to be thought of so badly in addition to not having my positive attributes acknowledged (or even noticed?) and get only blame and accusations instead of my efforts and incredible patience being the least bit appreciated, but to see the relationship crumble because of things that are so far removed from reality is agonisingly sad and frustrating.
This man is truly the love of my life... .
 

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[Baglady]

Hi Dying Soul,

I so feel your pain - I could have written what you wrote word-for-word.  I felt so helpless in the face of it all.  I have no real words of wisdom to offer to you because my exBPDh of 21 years unilaterally decided to divorce me earlier this year leaving me to pick up the pieces.   I'm still grappling with the crazy fact that my marriage crumbled over untruths, delusions, false narratives.  It's one thing when a marriage fails when both parties run into issues and try to resolve them and fail - it's a whole other issue when a bizarre and false narrative leads to a divorce.  I'm still waiting to wake up from the nightmare of it all - sometimes I feel like I'm living in a movie and not a real life. 

This site and the wonderful people contributing to it have saved me - someone here will have great words of wisdom for you - hang in there and keep checking in.

[WileyCoyote]

 

Dying Soul

Welcome to BPD family.  

Unfortunately you can't do anything about that with conversation.  You can only do that through YOUR actions.  If she can't see the reality.  There is nothing else you can do.

The sad truth is people with BPD are in an immense amount of inner turmoil and pain.  They have a difficult if not impossible time realizing it it is theirs to own and deal with.   They will tend to distort their external world in order to externalize all that pain.   As someone closest to the pwBPD you are likely to be the one given the most blame.

IMHO offering to take a polygraph is not a good choice.  One, because it is not something people in healthy relationships will require of their partner. Two, it is likely that even if you passed, he would find a way to invalidate it.

All you can control is your actions and thoughts.  

How long have you been together and how long has this behavior been going on?

[Chosen]

Hi Dying Soul,

It sucks so bad when our pwBPDs refuse to believe in anything we say, and they have their own version of "truth".  Sadly, this is the case with BPD, because feelings = facts for them (e.g. "I feel abandoned by you" -> "You are a cheater!".  After spending several years with a uBPDh, I have learnt that his facts are almost never facts, and can change in an instant according to his mood. 

While I think sometimes defending yourself will work (when the pwBPD is not full-blown dysregulated), it is not a safe way of doing things, as we nons can get caught up in that and become more and more invalidating.  JADE is a good principal to follow, but obviously we have to adapt them to our needs for that particular conversation.  I do think though, that when I remember not to JADE, things are usually smoother and don't escalate as much.  It's not as much a tool to "control" their emotions as it is one to calm ourselves down/ limit the damage we bring to the convo.

Re: the polygraph, I echo what WileyCoyote says, although if i were in your position I would probably feel as desperate to prove my innocence and would offer to take it too!

I feel you, and I could've written your post word for word.  We have a deep need for validation and appreciation too, and we almost never get it from our pwBPDs.  Sad to say that for me, even when I get it now, I don't feel so happy, because I know it's just a spur-of-the-moment thing, and the next instance he may change his mind about me.  That's why we need to learn to love ourselves and have a balanced view of ourselves.  We can't let our pwBPDs get us down when they're down (hard to do, I know, but we can at least try).

[k54]

I have finally learned not to defend myself! My wife can twist it and turn it every which way. Today as I listened to her latest reason why our marriage is failing I just sat there and said. "I can see that this is upsetting you to talk about. Maybe we could talk about it later." Then I went back and said, "do you think its possible for you to see any of this from my perspective?" Her answer was "NO" so I said ok and moved on.

As a politician I learned "If your explaining, your losing."

You know people have a frame of looking at things, and unless you can change that frame, you're not gonna get anywhere with them. With my wife things are pretty black and white. I always appreciated that when she was on my side, now I get to see the other side of the coin.

The other day she told me she couldn't trust me.

I said "you don't think I'm trustworthy?"

"no you're trustworthy, I can't trust myself to stop you from being abusive to me"

I'm pretty sure she didn't feel any better after the exchange.

 I was talking to my counselor about it. He said a lot of what she does is projection. It still hurts though. It doesn't help when she has a friend that helps her validate everything. And everything in the media these days is about sexually abusive men.  

[Dying Soul]

Thank you SO much for your replies! 

It feels amazing to finally be understood and validated myself. How badly I need that! 

I've been in an on/off relationship with this (most wonderful) man for exactly two years today. 

And I'm suffering especially tonight, because it seems we're "off" at the moment. It's long past midnight into the next day and not a word. I'm here, alone, with the memories of how it began on that July evening 730 days ago, and how beautiful it was in the beginning before the suspicions and devaluation began. 

I knew he was "different"- though not exactly in which way as a full picture- months before we fell in love with each other. And it's exactly what attracted me to him. I'm someone who thinks far, far out of the box, and appreciate it when others are like that too. I also knew he was as scarred by life as I am. (I'm a near-recluse on the autistic spectrum with many tragedies and heartbreaks behind me) It was his sensitivity and vulnerability that drew me so strongly to him, and our incredible similarities in basic character, interests, and personal histories, and the deep feeling that we're related souls in a very mystical sense. 

I noticed immediately that he had devalued almost everyone in his past, but I never imagined back then that I wasn't exempt; that the time would soon come when I would switch over in his mind and become one of "them" too. When that started happening a few months after we got together, I was beyond shocked and heartbroken... .it was as if my perfect, fairytale soul mate and reward for all my years of pain and loneliness, my bright future that I hadn't even dared hope for anymore before we met and that had brought my faith back in anything good and pure were gone in the blink of an eye. All of the wonderful things he'd told me (especially about himself- his beliefs in loyalty and love- which were most important of all to me) were nullified in one nightmare conversation. I wish I could erase that moment, that day, and many after. (he was interested in another woman and dropped me for a possible chance with her, though of course in his mind now, it wasn't like that, and he'll deny it to his dying day, saying that it's mewho'd changed. (Yes, we all know that one too) It was an extremely traumatic time for me, to suddenly have to come to terms with the reality that it wasn't going to be "us against the world", that I was easily replaceable, and that my love for him- which I had believed was so precious to him- could be so easily tossed away for a chance with a near stranger. I could write for hours about that chapter alone and what I went through then inside... .I wasn't even sure that I would physically survive it, there was so much pain, shock and despair. I guess my autism makes me naive in a certain way; I've always been a romantic; dreaming of (but never expecting) that one perfect soul mate who would be everything the others weren't, and who would finally appreciate the love, loyalty and complete dedication that I'm so capable of giving, and just maybe, maybe give a little of that back too... .but to have my love and loyalty appreciated instead of taken for granted was always a big wish of mine, and went unfulfilled.
How could I have known, when we met, that exactly the one person who needed that safety and love so desperately, who seemed the perfect partner and recipient for what I can give so naturally, would soon be blind to exactly those attributes in me, disbelieving me and suspecting the worst things imaginable, and discarding me so easily because of it? When he began suspecting that I could be part of a group of people plotting to harm or kill him, I was shocked, scared, and depressed. That suspicion has run through our entire relationship, surfacing and resurfacing. At first I thought it was straight PPD, but when he told me he'd been diagnosed (half- diagnosed? Not diagnosed? Later he said they officially retracted the diagnosis? I can never be sure because the things he tells me change, and I don't think this is deliberate but due to the denial mechanism and fragmentation of memory; his experiences while being sectioned- before we met- were traumatic for him and although he was very open about it when we first met, he denies any abnormality in his thinking at all now and gets furious and insulted if I suggest that he could be mistaken in any way) with BPD, I realised it was co-morbid. The extreme persecution complex, including the most bizarre misinterpretations of things I or others have said and of banal, innocent occurrences, unfounded jealousy (with which I have extreme empathy and understanding) across the spectrum to severe paranoia are the most tragic things about it all, because it branches into every corner of our relationship. If he imagines I've betrayed him in some way, I become a terrible person to him, it's suddenly all on ice again, and he becomes very susceptible- maybe because of a wish for revenge- to other women. This transfer of affection (SO painful for me) to someone else happened a few times that I know of, and in turn has made me insecure and suspicious, which doesn't help a thing, of course. He perceives it as an insulting attack on his character by me, (making me the 'bad' one) to be seen that way, regardless of the facts. He completely denies ever having pursued anyone else since we met, (despite undeniable evidence to the contrary) projecting his guilt feelings directly and fully onto me, and I can't stress how far from reality it is that I've so much as had a thought about another man since we met. I am so completely taken by him and on top of that, faithful by nature. I would literally cut off a limb before betraying him, even if, hypothetically, I wanted to and knew he would never find out. It goes against my beliefs completely.

The pain and frustration of being perceived in a way so 180° opposite to one's true self is beyond words. To think that he suffers so much where there is zero cause for worry and to see how it destroys us in so many ways is devastating.  And I do get angry. Oh, I try so hard not to. I know all the tragic, terrible reasons that result in him reacting as he does, and understand the psychological mechanics. I've studied it all for so long, have a small library on the subject of PDs. I've always had a natural interest in psychology, and an good intuition about the workings of the mind. I have more true love and empathy for this man than anyone on earth. But it's so, so hard when every move you make is wrong, when reacting in almost any way, or not reacting, is forbidden, and the cause and effect of emotions are, to the loved one, misconstrued, reversed, and may as well be written in mirror- image Sanskrit in invisible ink. 

I have good reasons for loving this man and wanting to give my ALL, even if he tests my limits beyond where I thought possible.

He’s real, and isn’t afraid to wear his heart on his sleeve. He’s witty and funny and brings me to my knees with laughter with his spot- on observations and imaginative wordplay. He’s the most creative person I’ve ever known, with a depth to his music, writing and art that never fails to bring tears to my eyes. I’ve never known anyone who could appreciate a sunrise or a dewdrop, a bird’s song or a kind gesture from a stranger so deeply, gratefully and authentically, and find such happiness in those small things which most of us take for granted. I've never known anyone besides myself who would sit with a dying bird on the street while everyone else looks away and walks by, and gently touch him so he doesn't feel alone when he passes over.

Yes, he can be utterly exasperating.

Yes, I feel lonely when he goes into himself for a while and I can’t reach him with the most heartfelt words or gestures, when the biggest love won't get through to him.

Yes, it's frightening and sad when the person you want to protect and nurture suspects you of wanting to actually harm him.

Yes, it's a shock that never dulls to be constantly 'dumped' for a small reason such as an argument, or a reason that is, in reality, not even existent. 

Yes, I feel like I'm speaking underwater from another planet when the most obvious logic goes right by him.

Yes, it's a knife stabbed in my heart when I see on social media that he's been paying extra attention to a female with a pretty profile picture. 

Yes, it's tiring when I have to shoulder more than my fair share, and maybe all, of the blame when we have a disagreement.

But I wouldn’t trade him, and the things I learn about life- and myself- from him, for anyone or anything else on earth.

And I will not give up. 

I'm here, in this life, to love and to learn.

One step at a time.

This post has become more of a cathartic dumping of everything I've kept to myself for so long, and I'm sorry if it's become tedious. But this is the first place of discussion I've seen where BPDs aren't made out to be monsters, and the people who love them hopeless masochists. The first place I feel safe enough to finally pour my heart out after such a long time of carrying it around all alone.

It's so good to speak amongst people who've been there, are there, and just plain understand!  


Thank you 

[isilme]

Catharsis is good.  I come here a lot for the same reasons.

I think Wiley (and others) said it pretty well - you have to show, not tell.  And showing takes time.  AND consistency.  Conversations don't work well to address most of BPD issues.  You'd need to be able to sway with logic and reason.  And BPD fights those very things, being an emotional disorder. 

As for JADE, your are correct - JADE is triggering, and will only escalate things.  JADE is the aggravating cousin of the friendlier communication strategy, SET. 

If you are defending, you are likely in an escalating conversation, and at that time, it's best to try to disengage.  You aren't going to get anywhere, and you're both just going to get upset and waste a lot of time and energy.  I have a real problem catching this until it's too late, but this is one thing I am trying really hard to work on.  When you JADE, you are being as invalidating as you can be - in their minds.  You are pretty much telling them - "no, your emotions/thoughts/feelings, all of your relativity is wrong, let me just tell you how."  I do it, thinking, "if only he saw what I REALLY meant, he'd not be angry."  But by that point, he doesn't CARE what I really meant.  He is not capable of it. 

SET, Sympathy, Empathy, Truth, works better.  In a calmer time, you express sympathy/empathy for how your pwBPD feels.  Since feelings = facts to them, their whole world is a mish-mash of feelings and emotions, shifting minute by minute based on all input, their physical feelings, and their perspectives warped by their need to avoid shame/blame.  You can validate feelings without stating you believe them as fact.  This takes practice, and we're here to help if you need some examples of different ways to approach an exchange.  In the end, you know your pwBPD best, and what may work best, but we can try to help.  Once you expressed the empathy for their feelings, you can state the truth.  "I realize you feel sad and depressed seeing your parents, their poor health and life choices are not ones that make visits fun... .I also know you will be sadder if we don't go visit.  What time do you want to arrive?"

SET works for some exchanges.  Some comments, jabs, snipes, are all best ignored.  They are based on emotions that may just blip and be gone by the time you've responded.  I find a "yes, dear" kind of response sometimes is all that's needed. 

[braveSun]

   Hey Dying Soul! Welcome to the bpdfamily boards!  

  It's painful enough to be thought of so badly in addition to not having my positive attributes acknowledged (or even noticed?) and get only blame and accusations instead of my efforts and incredible patience being the least bit appreciated, but to see the relationship crumble because of things that are so far removed from reality is agonizingly sad and frustrating.

First I'd like to say you do have a great gift of the word. The way you express your pain is impressive. When I read I could feel my own feelings in my own relationship. I can see myself in your story this way. Feeling so at loss that I am somehow alone in my own understanding of things, and that my beloved is so convinced that I am here to hurt her. Such a shocking and painful experience!... .

     

I also want to add that in regards to pwBPD, the accusations and paranoid thoughts are very much a part of it. And while it's incredibly difficult to accept as a condition for us the non partner, it's also incredibly difficult for them to live with those thoughts.

You mentioned you are on the spectrum with Autism. You are not alone. I hope other members on the boards who are on the spectrum will chime in.


In the end, we are very much left to our own devices when it comes to having our needs met. Because as you can see it now, he's not likely to be responding to your needs the way that you would feel satisfied.

As Chosen and islime brought up, the concept of JADE and SET are very good tools to help us reduce the amount of invalidation they experience in the day-to-day living. Many members here have been successful in reducing the conflicts and the paranoid effect. I find it takes practice and patience.

Most important now for you is how are you doing?

Is there something you would feel like doing for yourself alone as a measure of self-care?

Keep posting! As you interact with other people on the boards and get familiar with their stories, you will find much wisdom and support.

Take care!

Brave

[Cat Familiar]

Hi D.S.,

Fellow Aspie-gal. Glad to make your acquaintance! By the way, have you read Aspergirls: Empowering Females with Asperger Syndrome? https://www.amazon.com/Aspergirls-Empowering-Females-Asperger-Syndrome-ebook/dp/B00GDJQNO4

It's written in a rather simplistic style, but I enjoyed discovering how differently Aspergers presents in women than men. And it gave me an overview about certain issues that I'd been struggling with for a lifetime.

That said, I feel like I've done a lot of remedial work in recent years and no longer would I fit the DX.

You're a very intelligent woman with a great deal of focus. I think it's common for Aspies to hook up with pwBPD because we appreciate their kindness and sensitivity (when they're being that way... .). As you're aware, people with BPD are a package deal: you can't just have the wonderful side--the not-so-wonderful part comes along with it. But you can minimize that part through the way you respond to them.

It takes a while to develop those habits--they're rather counterintuitive--particularly for us, who would like to be straightforward and completely honest about what we think and feel.

You've learned, as an Aspie, that you have to suppress some of your natural inclinations to get along easily with others--and it's really the same kind of strategy.

You can think of people with BPD as burn patients--their skin is so sensitive. A comment that wouldn't cause someone else injury can wound them deeply--and lots of times we don't have a clue as to why.

What has helped me greatly with my husband is becoming aware of his minimal cues: his voice tone, body posture, tension in his face, skin coloration. I find that if I pay attention, I can see when he is beginning to get upset (dysregulated is the term you'll often see here) and then I will immediately change what I'm doing.

Like you, I would like to explain and try to get him to understand me. But that may work when he's not dysregulated--however when he starts getting upset--it's like throwing gasoline on a fire.

It wasn't until I landed here that I could understand why this happened. Like isilme points out, when you try and explain yourself, what they receive is that you think their feelings are wrong and they get even more upset.

Take that incredible ability you have to focus and study the tools you'll find here. It will take some work to change habits, but you'll be amazed how much better all your relationships with people will become.  

Welcome to our community.

Cat

[Radcliff]

It sounds like you've really done your homework.  While living with a pwBPD initially seemed totally incomprehensible to me, the thing that saved me was to recognize that there are patterns to the behavior.  Cues that can be recognized, and coping tools that can be rehearsed.  While it may be tremendously discouraging that a straightforward approach is often not successful with pwBPD, you have superpowers that actually can help you outperform neurotypical folks who become emotional and may have more trouble applying the tools.  I'm impressed that you've built up a library and have a natural interest in psychology.  That's a huge asset.  One of the things I didn't realize at first is how messy applying the tools in real life can be, and how much it helps to have support.  That's where this site comes in.  We can help talk you through specific situations where you've tried to apply tools like boundaries, SET, or not JADEing, and help you work on improving things on the next go-around.  Is there a particular situation that you find isn't yielding to your best efforts where we might be able to help?

WW

[Turkish]

I've heard there are differences between genders on the expression of ASD traits. My son,  8, was diagnosed with ASD1 just before he turned 7. I had picked up on it when he was 2. I inadvertently used some ABA techniques before we had him do ABA. "Remember Eye contact, buddy," and the like.  Even though he'll still educate you on facts on his favorite subject,  not picking up on the cue that you may be bored,  he's a kind kid,  a people pleaser,  but at the same time he has issues picking up on when people taking advantage of him.  He Greeks the need to "rescue" without asking questions or from my view reasoning why. Does this feel familiar? I realize that my experience is only with my kid rather than an adult.